49 million to five

[dontcopnone]

I don't think that abortion should be a talking point at all with politicians or even a concern to the government. No matter how you feel, if someone wants to end their pregnancy they will try to find a way. I'd rather they have a safe medical alternative than to try jamming a coat hanger into their uterus. Policing morals can lead you down a very slippery path.

I live in a predominantly catholic area of the US. Here...
...Women who get pregnant out of wedlock are not publicly shunned, but it's definitely frowned upon. No sympathy whatsoever - she's a slut.
...Men are not held accountable and can usually blow off support payments. Promiscuous men are not looked down upon as a rule.
...The men tend to oppose adoption because admitting that you can't father a child is too emasculating.
...Abortion is not talked about.
...Parents ignore the sexuality of their children, never bother to educate them.

We really need to take a broader look at this issue. As a guy, pregnancy has little affect on my life. A single mother is going to have a hard time both providing for that new life and also making ends meet while carrying the child to term. Perhaps if our society didn't make them feel like whores and be more supportive, more women would carry a child to term and then give it up for adoption. How about creating an internet registry to pair up women who wish to give their child up for adoption with prospective adoptees, with provisions from the future parents to cover the medical costs of the birth mother. Lastly, parents need to take responsibility for teaching their children about sex and birth control. My parents never even came close to talking to me about it. Maybe they figured growing up on a farm I would learn from observation.

Ann Coulter is just an attention whore. She'd participate in a televised donkey show if she thought it would get her on the bestseller's book list.

 

[PadawanBater]

What arguments?

Death penalty is punishment for people that take others lives. That there are mistakes made...is horrible but mistakes are not consious choices to purposely kill innocent humans.

War is horrible and I am against it. So using that is pretty weak as if it was MY CHOICE there would be no war. BUT IT IS NOT MY CHOICE.

Do I feel abortions are right all of the time...including if the Mother would die?
You know your argument is weak when you have to find the least likely scenario as a defense of an entire enterprise of murder. How about this? If only the Mother or the child can live...ask the Mother. If she cannot respond...save the one most likely to live. If they are both equally as likely to live? <---wow now you really have it down to .00000000000001% likelyhood of this but wtf I'll play...if both are equally likely to live...ask the Father. Now to go to .0000000000000000000000001% If both are equally likely to live, the Mother is unable to give her thoughts, there is no Father and there is a solar eclipse?
It is the Doctor's choice...and not some random group of politicians that live 1,500 miles away.

"all judicial systems are imperfect, so if you are for capital punishment, then you must accept that innocent people will die. So then why is it OK to execute an innocent adult, but not to abort an embryo?"

The point was that if you can support killing innocent people on death row (even if there being there is a mistake), then your opposition to aborting an embryo is hypocritical.

You completely dodged the second question. The guy wasn't asking "would you support war if it was completely up to you?", he asked "do you support war?" and later added, "no war can be waged with a guarantee not to kill innocent civilians, so to be for war, even when it's for self defense means to accept the killing of innocent bystanders. So why is it OK to kill women and children who get caught in the crossfire, but not OK to abort an embryo?"

Generally speaking, pro-lifers support war. That's a fact. Just a little hypocritical, again, don't you think?

(pro-lifers are always talking about 'innocent lives'... what about all these innocent lives?)

I think you misunderstood question 3, which was "do you oppose abortions under all circumstances, even when life of the mother is at risk? If you have rationalized that it is OK to take some life to save others, then why not take the embryos life to save the mothers?"

So I'll let you answer that one again before I respond to it.

And the last little bit of the video that's too good to leave out because it brings everything together so nicely in two sentences.

"If you answered yes to any of the above questions, then you have decided, you have made a choice, under what circumstances it is OK to take the lives of innocent individuals, and if you claim to be pro-life, you have to realize how profoundly hypocritical such a position is. Are you really pro-life, or are you simply anti-choice?"

 

[ilkhan]

Short answer is yes you can be a pro-life murderer.
All you have to do is say:
"this doctor will kill again, unless I take him out first."
Compairing War and Abortion is just silly IMO.
Preventing an invading army from raping and pillaging
its way across your country Vs. killing unborn babies? please.
(I am against the death penalty)

I am not anti-Choice.
I reject the initiation of Violence.

I will not stop a person from getting an abortion,
But I ask you to not make me fund them through
forced government grants to planed parenthood.

You and your ilk like Abortion so much you should
start a chip-in for planned parenthood.
Stop forcing everyone else from paying for them.

Its only fair.

 

[PadawanBater]

Short answer is yes you can be a pro-life murderer.
All you have to do is say:
"this doctor will kill again, unless I take him out first."
Compairing War and Abortion is just silly IMO.
Preventing an invading army from raping and pillaging
its way across your country Vs. killing unborn babies? please.
(I am against the death penalty)

I am not anti-Choice.
I reject the initiation of Violence.

I will not stop a person from getting an abortion,
But I ask you to not make me fund them through
forced government grants to planed parenthood.

You and your ilk like Abortion so much you should
start a chip-in for planned parenthood.
Stop forcing everyone else from paying for them.

Its only fair.

If you are a ''pro-life murderer'', then you're CLEARLY not pro-life, that is a contradicting statement.

Your rational for justifying such is nothing short of INSANE, it is also pretty apparent the murderer who killed Dr. Tiller had the exact same rational.

Nobody is comparing war to abortion. The point was, if you support war, in any case, it's hypocritical to call yourself 'pro-life', as innocent people die in every single war. What is the difference between your support for war and the deaths of innocent people and your opposition to the 'death' of a fetus or embryo? Both are human, both are innocent, so what's the difference?

I agree with you, I don't want to fund all abortions either. The only time I think it's appropriate for the taxpayers to provide funding for an abortion is if the mothers life is at risk, in that case I wouldn't consider it 'buying her an abortion', rather, I'd look at it like 'I'm helping save her life'.

Though the 'pro-life' people always bring this up, I just did some searching around and came across this source, which clearly shows they totally exaggerate how much the government actually provides for abortions, take a look for yourself;

Most states only provide financial coverage if the mothers health is at risk, the baby will have physical or mental abnormalities, or the mother was raped or the embryo was conceived through incest, all of which I personally don't have a problem with. Not to mention 13 of the states require a court order.

http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_SFAM.pdf
&#12288;

32 states and the District of Columbia follow the federal standard and provide abortions in cases of life endangerment, rape and incest.

4 of these states also provide state funds for abortions in cases of fetal abnormality.
3 of these states also provides state funds for abortions that are necessary to prevent grave, long-lasting damage to the woman&#8217;s physical health.
1 state provides abortions only in cases of life endangerment, in apparent violation of the federal standard.

17 states use state funds to provide all or most medically necessary abortions.

4 of these states provide such funds voluntarily.
13 of these states do so pursuant to a court order.

 

[Anjinsan]

"all judicial systems are imperfect...

You believe this guy's arguments are ironclad...the word of pure brilliance...but they are not. No matter how many times you say they are...it does not make it so.

I'll recap with more detail:

#1 Murderers get death row. They have a trial AND appeals out the ying yang. They are given MANY chances. A fetus is given ZERO chances even though there is ZERO evidence that they committed murder themselves. CLEARLY the ONLY people committing murder are the politicians that told the Doctor it's fine to kill babies...and of course the woman who is too selfish to go through 9 months of discomfort. Regardless of any circumstance the baby is 4000% innocent as it has no choice in the matter.

#2 Don't care what people generally think. Really do not...I make my own choices I'm not sheeple. Don't need a youtube video by some chump to "have my back". Or do you have his? In my head...abortions are murder. Spin it anyway you want...If I kill you with a coat hanger or shoot you in the head...death is the result. Two wrongs do not make a right. You are trying to justify murder because people get murdered in many various ways. What kind of a weak argument is that? I do not support war. Live and let live is my motto.

#3 I did answer the question...you just did not like the answer.

Let me flip this on you and show you how weak "your" arguments are.

#1 If you are for abortion you are for capitol punishment. You believe that death is a perfectly acceptable solution to life's problems. You do not really care if someone innocent gets killed. As a matter of fact you think innocent people should be killed if their lives are not wanted. Thank the heavens someone wanted you huh? Would your Mom have aborted you if the timing wasn't right for her?

#2 If you are for abortion than you are for war. Innocents die in both scenarios...and that is ok as long as someone benefits. Especially if that person is you.

#3 If you are for abortion the you really don't care about a situation where the Mother lives or dies. Kill the baby is your first, second and third thought. If the baby lives but the Mom dies? You don't care about that either as life is not sacred to you anyways.

You do not need to respond. You believe murder is a-ok as long as the person is 1000% innocent but inconvenient.

I believe murder is not ok.

 

[Anjinsan]

We really need to take a broader look at this issue. As a guy, pregnancy has little affect on my life. A single mother is going to have a hard time both providing for that new life and also making ends meet while carrying the child to term. Perhaps if our society didn't make them feel like whores and be more supportive, more women would carry a child to term and then give it up for adoption. How about creating an internet registry to pair up women who wish to give their child up for adoption with prospective adoptees, with provisions from the future parents to cover the medical costs of the birth mother. Lastly, parents need to take responsibility for teaching their children about sex and birth control. My parents never even came close to talking to me about it. Maybe they figured growing up on a farm I would learn from observation.

You really have no clue about how many parents are paying 10's of thousands of dollars to get babies do you? None. Here is what take four seconds away from the pot board and google adoption agencies. There are agencies that charge you $10,000 just to place an ad for a child so that you can jump ahead on the list. There are FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more parents that want children...than there are children. That there are millions of unwanted American babies is another common misconception by people that get their info from their stoner friends as opposed to researching on their own.

As to society making women feel like whores...are you kidding me? Everytime you see a pregnant woman...do you first think...WHORE! I hope not. Sweet Jeebus I hope not otherwise you are probably a serial killer with too much hatred coursing through your veins. Movies glorify single Moms all the time!!! Do you need a list of 14,000 movies to believe me or will you take my word on it?

And FYI legally men are supposed to pay child support. That is the law.

I am also a little disturbed by your statement "As a guy, pregnancy has little affect on my life." WTF d00d? Thank all that is good that you are not MY Dad.

 

[bicycle racer]

i dont consider an early term fetus to be the same as a fully developed human not at all. dropping a bomb on an apartment complex full of families is not comparable to aborting an undeveloped human thats a silly argument and so is the capital punishment comparison.

 

[Twistyman]

With all due respect, you need a check up from the neck up. You exude hate like there is no tomorrow. You make these ludicrous statements like you really know what you're talking about ... when you don't.

Do you know Sarah Palin personally? Chances are that you don't, so how can you make such judgements?

Palin's daughter getting pregnant, is something that could happen to any of our daughters ... and does.

The Palin's have exhibited their moral standard on the abortion issue twice that we know about. Once, when Sarah became pregnant with a Down's Syndrome baby and decided to raise it instead of having an abortion. Then second, when the daughter became pregnant out of wed-lock and didn't abort the baby. I wouldn't call that hypocrisy, would you?

Vi

So its a pick & chose which of the morals you'll accept or condemn.. I see abortion bad... slut teens OK as long as its hers, aren't there homes for those wayward girls anymore..put her in one of those or stop given double standards, you follow the bible well do it and label her a "whore" not some poor misguided girl..she laid down with a man unwed and she's a teen, so wheres the rape trail......... just like the right to pick a side as it were.... I may not know a lot about those fucks you call "your party of choice"..but I know shit when I see it.. stop watching FOX and look at some foreign news... there are monkeys in trees laughing at the rights hit and miss attempt to get a clue....

Respect back VI... I'm not against your beliefs but your own party just can't seem to pick one topic, direction, so they shoot shit at everything looking for something to stick... ... keep it up..the boomerang effect is killing you guys...

 

[CrackerJax]

I know the abortion issue has taken over the INTENT of the first post,but it is really about the Obama admin having a DOUBLE STANDARD.

There is no defense for that......

 

[bicycle racer]

well put with regards to the rights desperate attack of everything and anything they can attempt to slander in a hope of pulling people back in after the previous admin.

 

[bicycle racer]

well all politics in the us involve double standards lies deceit and all that good stuff its just about whose worse imo.

 

[Twistyman]

well all politics in the us involve double standards lies deceit and all that good stuff its just about whose worse imo.

I studied it (political science & intro to law) in CEGEP..(Your college) and the main mantra of both was its not the good you do, its how well you can cover your mistakes and sway peoples opinions... nothing to do with "good of Country", or of your "client" just how well you can slip & slid the masses to conform to what you're saying... I've always wondered why a sec/minister of fisheries isn't a fisherman or have a marine biology degree.. and like here, what does a french lawyer know about Indian Affairs..?? until the right people are in the right jobs its all crap.. yes there will always be the need for the "figureheads" and some talking heads but the workers with their feet on the ground should KNOW THAT ground.. and not be a lawyer, accountant or friend of whoever...

 

[Radiate]

Well in all fairness...if you believe that some abortions are just...you HAVE TO believe that some wars are just. Otherwise you are the exact same person as the bible thumper. The deaths that benefit me are good...the deaths that benefit them are bad.

Well in all fairness, the justification of a war is in the eye of the beholder. It'll never be fair to the person getting shot. And no matter how just a war is, innocent people will always die in wars. Calling any war justified is turning a blind eye to the death of the innocent people involved, which in turn makes you no better than any abortionist.

Pro life and pro war, the Christian hypocrisy continues.

 

[Radiate]

Then second, when the daughter became pregnant out of wed-lock and didn't abort the baby. I wouldn't call that hypocrisy, would you?


Vi

Considering that Bristol was supposed to be on a pledge of abstinence, I would. You aren't worth the air that carries your words if you don't follow them.

 

[Anjinsan]

Considering that Bristol was supposed to be on a pledge of abstinence, I would. You aren't worth the air that carries your words if you don't follow them.

A pledge of abstinence?

C'mon what is this the 1600's? Do you hold yourself to the same degree of morality as you do people you've never met?

I'm guessing that you like to do drugs...right?

 

[Radiate]

A pledge of abstinence?

C'mon what is this the 1600's? Do you hold yourself to the same degree of morality as you do people you've never met?

Why would I hold myself to their standards? I think abstinence is bullshit already. Protection is the way to go. But since protection isn't 100%, I support abortion.



However, if you're going to make a stand and say you're abstinent (the common pro-life alternative to protection) , have a fucking spine and DO IT. Why would you not chastise her for breaking her promise? Nobody is forcing her to make the pledge.

 

[Anjinsan]

Why would I hold myself to their standards? I think abstinence is bullshit already. Protection is the way to go. But since protection isn't 100%, I support abortion.



However, if you're going to make a stand and say you're abstinent (the common pro-life alternative to protection) , have a fucking spine and DO IT. Why would you not chastise her for breaking her promise? Nobody is forcing her to make the pledge.

Because she is a teenager. Teenagers are 90% full of shiite...90% of the time.

You either accept that or you don't.

The ONLY way a teenager learns ANYTHING is by it biting them in the ass. Before that moment? Bah it'll never happen to me...Dad/Mom...doesn't know wtf they are talking about.

 

[CrackerJax]

Well, let's just be objective. Only abstinence guarantees you the future to build a foundation to have a family when you are PREPARED for it, both mentally and financially. This much is a given. Also a given is the fact that a two parent nucleus stands the best chance of raising a child well.

There is nothing else that can achieve this. While it may not be attainable for all to succeed, it should still be the GOAL none the less. You don't discard a goal just because 100% cannot achieve it.

 

[hom36rown]

Do you believe even rape victims should not be allowed to abort anjinsan? If not, why is murder ok then? Two wrongs don't make a right, right?

 

[PadawanBater]

Anjinsan(e), there is a HUGE difference between being "pro-abortion" (whatever the fuck that means) and "pro-choice". You use the term to agitate an emotional response. "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are both deceiving terms.

You are simply anti-choice. And pesonally, I think you're a bitch because you don't even have the balls to admit what you believe in. You simply don't want any abortions to take place ever, no matter the circumstances. PROHIBITING abortions through the government. Why don't you pull your head out of the sand for one second and take a quick trek through history, howbout when we prohibited alcohol, you remember the consequences of that don't you? Howbout the current prohibition on marijuana, take one look south of the border, the drug cartels thrive because of our retarded ''war on drugs''.

Making abortions illegal through the government will only make 'criminals' out of otherwise honest hardworking people. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Would you rather a mother go to some back ally abortion clinic to get an abortion where there's no running water or basic medical supplies? What kind of fucked up person would want that?