Safer with bush as president?

[TheHighClub]

alright democrat, republican bullshit aside who thinks we were safer as a country with bush as president? I mean yes bush tortured terrorists, started a war after the 9-11 attack and seemed a little trigger happy. He had a dont fuck with america attitude soo I'm confident if bush was president and N korea sent misiles our way, bush would have made a giant crater where the terrorist sleep......However on the other side is obama, who has a lets negotiate with terrorists, sit down have a cup of coffee and try to work this out. Obama seems meek and meekness is veiwed as weekness. nevermind the fact that these terrorist sole purpose in life and from the time they were born is being trained to wipe out america. there is nothing to negotiate here. As long as they live America will be a target the only question is what will we do in respone to an imminent threat with obama as president?

 

[Mcgician]

No question about it. Bush was far more steadfast when it came to protecting America. The problem lies in liberal thinking. They think that if we just give enough concessions, lose our harsh tone, and sit down and talk it over, there's nothing we can't negotiate. What a crock! People that think like this are dangerous to America, and even more dangerous when they are sitting in the oval office. Obama's gentle tone with Iran got him nowhere. Ahmadinejad still lies to his people, along with their press, and they still make us out to be the enemy. There is little room for a foreign policy learning curve with Obama, and the tests he's been given so far have proven exactly your point true. I've never been so fearful for the future of America.

 

[Rob Roy]

Define "safe". The United States aggresses against more countries than any other country in the history of the world.
If you are worried about the terrorists under your bed, you should first ask WHY they are there. The proper question IMHO might be - Is any country safe from the United States?

Bush = Chicken hawk Douchebag Obama = Communist Dick wad. Neither are worth a damn.
I will feel safer when we have a tiny government that understands the original boundaries of the constitution. Bush was a chickenhawk, talked tough yet he hid during Viet Nam, his V.P. Cheney was worse he got deferred 5(?) times from the military yet he has no problem sending MY kid to war.

 

[ChChoda]

Define "safe". The United States aggresses against more countries than any other country in the history of the world.
If you are worried about the terrorists under your bed, you should first ask WHY they are there. The proper question IMHO might be - Is any country safe from the United States?

Bush = Chicken hawk Douchebag Obama = Communist Dick wad. Neither are worth a damn.
I will feel safer when we have a tiny government that understands the original boundaries of the constitution. Bush was a chickenhawk, talked tough yet he hid during Viet Nam, his V.P. Cheney was worse he got deferred 5(?) times from the military yet he has no problem sending MY kid to war.

I heard your kid worked at Wal-Mart, part-time, in the hunting and fishing section. J/K

 

[ChChoda]

alright democrat, republican bullshit aside who thinks we were safer as a country with bush as president? I mean yes bush tortured terrorists, started a war after the 9-11 attack and seemed a little trigger happy. He had a dont fuck with america attitude soo I'm confident if bush was president and N korea sent misiles our way, bush would have made a giant crater where the terrorist sleep......However on the other side is obama, who has a lets negotiate with terrorists, sit down have a cup of coffee and try to work this out. Obama seems meek and meekness is veiwed as weekness. nevermind the fact that these terrorist sole purpose in life and from the time they were born is being trained to wipe out america. there is nothing to negotiate here. As long as they live America will be a target the only question is what will we do in respone to an imminent threat with obama as president?

Bush made many mistakes, but I believe his intentions were good. I believe Obama has bad intentions. His "mistakes", I believe, are anything but.

 

[Rob Roy]

I heard your kid worked at Wal-Mart, part-time, in the hunting and fishing section. J/K

No he's in the marines doing amphibious assault stuff. Not my choice for him, I'd almost rather he was working at Walmart.

 

[SarcasticHobbes]

Fuck no we were not safer.

 

[jrh72582]

I think we're safer with Obama for one simple reason. Bush inspired so much hatred of us abroad. He created a whole new generation of terrorists. Anytime we invade and force our will upon others, the victims tend to hold aggressive thoughts. Many will act on them. Bush was hated for his judgment and hypocrisy - he was polarizing and made us less safe.

If we lessen our imperialistic expansion, then the hatred dissolves and less act violently towards us. It's a simple concept. Aggression is reciprocated, as is peace (for the most part). The one thing I do like about Obama is his laissez faire, rational approach to foreign affairs. He doesn't shoot from the hip. I like that a lot. In my opinion, America doesn't have to comment on every foreign affair - we are not the barometer for righteousness and need to mind our own damn business.

Look at developed, peaceful countries. Are they attacked as often? Are terrorists devoting their lives to destroying them? No. Canada, Australia (one could argue), and dozens of European countries are not targets because they mind their own damn business. People tend to get pissed when you stick your nose in their business. Rome thought of herself as the world authority and inspired the ire of millions. They eventually collapsed under this force.

So now one might say that America is not an aggressor - one might argue that we don't stick our nose in other people's business. Or you might claim that when we do, it's justified. Hogwash. America paid Bin Laden to fight the Russians. Now he's fighting us and all of a sudden he's a terrorist (keep in mind, I hope we catch that fucker and kill him, but it's still a bit hypocritical). America sanctioned numerous murders and coups in Central America (research the School of the Americas, the Jesuit murders, etc...). America is not pure. I like our country and our people. I dislike our government. So I separate the two. Our people are nice and don't deserve to carry the blame of the government, but when terrorists act, the often do. This saddens me. If the terrorists focused their attention on our government, which acts heinously at times, I wouldn't be so crestfallen.

So no, I don't think Bush made us safer. He made us a target. He made me realize why we're hated abroad.

 

[smilingbigfoot]

I think we're safer with Obama for one simple reason. Bush inspired so much hatred of us abroad. He created a whole new generation of terrorists. Anytime we invade and force our will upon others, the victims tend to hold aggressive thoughts. Many will act on them. Bush was hated for his judgment and hypocrisy - he was polarizing and made us less safe.

If we lessen our imperialistic expansion, then the hatred dissolves and less act violently towards us. It's a simple concept. Aggression is reciprocated, as is peace (for the most part). The one thing I do like about Obama is his laissez faire, rational approach to foreign affairs. He doesn't shoot from the hip. I like that a lot. In my opinion, America doesn't have to comment on every foreign affair - we are not the barometer for righteousness and need to mind our own damn business.

Look at developed, peaceful countries. Are they attacked as often? Are terrorists devoting their lives to destroying them? No. Canada, Australia (one could argue), and dozens of European countries are not targets because they mind their own damn business. People tend to get pissed when you stick your nose in their business. Rome thought of herself as the world authority and inspired the ire of millions. They eventually collapsed under this force.

So now one might say that America is not an aggressor - one might argue that we don't stick our nose in other people's business. Or you might claim that when we do, it's justified. Hogwash. America paid Bin Laden to fight the Russians. Now he's fighting us and all of a sudden he's a terrorist (keep in mind, I hope we catch that fucker and kill him, but it's still a bit hypocritical). America sanctioned numerous murders and coups in Central America (research the School of the Americas, the Jesuit murders, etc...). America is not pure. I like our country and our people. I dislike our government. So I separate the two. Our people are nice and don't deserve to carry the blame of the government, but when terrorists act, the often do. This saddens me. If the terrorists focused their attention on our government, which acts heinously at times, I wouldn't be so crestfallen.

So no, I don't think Bush made us safer. He made us a target. He made me realize why we're hated abroad.

Most of the people of Iraq and Afganistan wanted to be liberate and aren't jihading hodgie's. but are greatful for america

laissez faire- the turth is the un doesn't work and we're the only country with the balls to do the right thing

to be honest I hate the government as much as the next dude. but were not hated because of our government were hated because of our life style.

 

[jrh72582]

to be honest I hate the government as much as the next dude. but were not hated because of our government were hated because of our life style.

If by 'lifestyle' you mean our standard of living, then why is it that those with similar standards of living still hate us? And trust me, Bush, specifically is HATED abroad. At least in my experience (and I travel a LOT).

 

[polar]

Hmmmm... I've heard the idea that other countries hate us because we "meddled" in their business, however, what makes anyone think that if we put our guns down the other countries are gonna just say, ok, glad we are at peace now... Logic tells me that if we demilitarize and become softer, it will give the terrorists the opportunity to attack. Obviously we can't prove anything with arguing about whats the right choice because we really dont know... maybe if we put our guns down other countries will leave us alone too.... but I doubt it... theres too many radical mofo's that CANT be negotiated with. How can u negotiate with someone who thinks the way to be "heard" is to kill thousands of innocent civilians??? I'm sorry, but that's like if a dude on the street wants to kill me and i tell him, look i'm putting my gun down, pleaase put urs down too. Will he put his down? or finally shoot me like he's been dying to for all these years?
If only everybody would just light one up, take a deep breath, and think... what should I do today? toke, eat, have sex.... or go out of my way to plan an attack where innocent people will die....
If only people would be more spiritual and learn to enjoy the good things in life . The fact is, no matter what you believe in, there's no way to KNOW 100% what will happen after you die, so why not enjoy our time on Earth?
I'm dumbfounded by the fact that there's people that get up in the morning and can't think of anything better to do with their lives than hurt others (REGARDLESS OF YOUR CAUSE!!!) I guess that's why I don't like politics/government/power... I'll stick to healing

 

[doobnVA]

I've got to agree. Bush was a terrorist himself in every sense of the word. Why is it that when people threaten OUR values, they are terrorists - yet we force our values down the throats of every other nation and threaten (or deploy) violent methods to basically terrorize them into compliance with our standards and that's okay?

Bush destroyed our relationship with many nations. Under Bush, we were definitely hated. Not for our quality of life or our lifestyles, but for our foreign policy. Bush's foreign policy, that is.

Bombing the crap out of everyone who disagrees with you isn't a good foreign policy. When everyone hates you, you are NOT safe. Not by a longshot.

I think the best thing Obama could do for our country, economics aside, is to repair foreign relations that Bush destroyed with his "bomb 'em all" policies and practices.

A safe country is a country with many allies. A country with many enemies is essentially doomed.

 

[doobnVA]

Hmmmm... I've heard the idea that other countries hate us because we "meddled" in their business, however, what makes anyone think that if we put our guns down the other countries are gonna just say, ok, glad we are at peace now... Logic tells me that if we demilitarize and become softer, it will give the terrorists the opportunity to attack. Obviously we can't prove anything with arguing about whats the right choice because we really dont know... maybe if we put our guns down other countries will leave us alone too.... but I doubt it... theres too many radical mofo's that CANT be negotiated with. How can u negotiate with someone who thinks the way to be "heard" is to kill thousands of innocent civilians??? I'm sorry, but that's like if a dude on the street wants to kill me and i tell him, look i'm putting my gun down, pleaase put urs down too. Will he put his down? or finally shoot me like he's been dying to for all these years?
If only everybody would just light one up, take a deep breath, and think... what should I do today? toke, eat, have sex.... or go out of my way to plan an attack where innocent people will die....
If only people would be more spiritual and learn to enjoy the good things in life . The fact is, no matter what you believe in, there's no way to KNOW 100% what will happen after you die, so why not enjoy our time on Earth?
I'm dumbfounded by the fact that there's people that get up in the morning and can't think of anything better to do with their lives than hurt others (REGARDLESS OF YOUR CAUSE!!!) I guess that's why I don't like politics/government/power... I'll stick to healing

We can "become softer", like you say, without demilitarizing. How about bringing some of the deployed troops back to protect OUR nation, instead of screwing around in everyone else's business?

You don't have to put your gun down... Just bring it back home where it belongs, where it can actually protect US citizens. Keep it pointed at the bad guys, definitely, so they know we're ready if they decide to pull a fast one on us.

The US has the largest military in the world, but a fat lot of good it does us when all our troops are overseas.

 

[jrh72582]

I've got to agree. Bush was a terrorist himself in every sense of the word. Why is it that when people threaten OUR values, they are terrorists - yet we force our values down the throats of every other nation and threaten (or deploy) violent methods to basically terrorize them into compliance with our standards and that's okay?

Bush destroyed our relationship with many nations. Under Bush, we were definitely hated. Not for our quality of life or our lifestyles, but for our foreign policy. Bush's foreign policy, that is.

Bombing the crap out of everyone who disagrees with you isn't a good foreign policy. When everyone hates you, you are NOT safe. Not by a longshot.

I think the best thing Obama could do for our country, economics aside, is to repair foreign relations that Bush destroyed with his "bomb 'em all" policies and practices.

A safe country is a country with many allies. A country with many enemies is essentially doomed.

Nice post. And remember, Bush's policy wasn't to 'bomb 'em all' - I believe his official stance was 'bring 'em on' (which he actually stated).

 

[doobnVA]

Nice post. And remember, Bush's policy wasn't to 'bomb 'em all' - I believe his official stance was 'bring 'em on' (which he actually stated).

I guess I misunderestimated him.

 

[Mcgician]

These guys would've hated ANYTHING Bush did. If he'd saved lives by sending in the air force to strategically bomb terrorists, they would say we're chicken shit and don't have the guts to take them on "fairly". If we sent in troops to kick their ass, well then we're "invaders" and we're contributing to the "occupation". Didn't Obama just bomb the hell out of some terrorists in Afghanistan? Gee, I wonder why they didn't say anything bad about that? Seriously, the liberal mind is so jaded with hypocrisy it's not even funny anymore.

 

[jrh72582]

I don't like Obama, so how am I a hypocrite? I didn't mind Bush the elder or Clinton, I frickin' HATED Bush because of his blind hubris, and I certainly am disappointed with Obama.

And who are 'these guys'? You assume so much and it's quite misleading.

 

[doobnVA]

These guys would've hated ANYTHING Bush did. If he'd saved lives by sending in the air force to strategically bomb terrorists, they would say we're chicken shit and don't have the guts to take them on "fairly". If we sent in troops to kick their ass, well then we're "invaders" and we're contributing to the "occupation". Didn't Obama just bomb the hell out of some terrorists in Afghanistan? Gee, I wonder why they didn't say anything bad about that? Seriously, the liberal mind is so jaded with hypocrisy it's not even funny anymore.

You're right, because Bush was an idiot who never did anything good for our country.

Now, I'm not saying Obama is any better, just that Bush was an amazingly horrible president. Even the majority of republicans agree that he was quite possibly the worst president in the history of the United States.

 

[doobnVA]

These guys would've hated ANYTHING Bush did. If he'd saved lives by sending in the air force to strategically bomb terrorists, they would say we're chicken shit and don't have the guts to take them on "fairly". If we sent in troops to kick their ass, well then we're "invaders" and we're contributing to the "occupation". Didn't Obama just bomb the hell out of some terrorists in Afghanistan? Gee, I wonder why they didn't say anything bad about that? Seriously, the liberal mind is so jaded with hypocrisy it's not even funny anymore.

I don't think Obama ordered bombings on Afghanistan, rather, it was Pakistan.

I see no issue with pursuing Osama Bin Laden, or any other actual terrorist threats to the US. I just think that maybe before we go blowing anyone's country up because they have different views than us, maybe we ought to take a closer look at ourselves.

 

[skate6407]

Define "safe". The United States aggresses against more countries than any other country in the history of the world.
quote]

What about the Roman Empire?