jfgordon1
Well-Known Member
lol if he believes that, he's totally insane. the govt literally released how gulf of tonkin was BS like 4 years ago.
Oh Goodie! ... More on 911 (inside job) :)
- Thread starter GrowRebel
- Start date
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GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
These kids from we are change LA are awesome! They have taken "scientific proof of TEASON to members of congress and other DC Players". Copies of the paper sighting evidence of nano thermite being found in the dust at the WTC are being handed out to several members of congress ... Check out B. Franks ... the asshole acts like they own him money! He didn't want anything to do with it. Ried was the same way ... you should see all the fucking body guards that old fuck has ... Plus the members that they handed the paper to, are told either do something or be held complicit. Beautiful!
WACLA delivers scientific proof of TREASON to members of Congress and other D.C. players. DAY ONE
[youtube]mtCxBNaKr90&feature=channel_page[/youtube]
This is day two ... there was one congress woman who was receptive to the information.
Now notice folks in these video they will give the name and what committee if any these congress people are on. Pay particular attention to their reactions ... very interesting.
WACLA delivers scientific proof of TREASON to members of Congress and other D.C. players. DAY TWO
[youtube]vrcSaxKCtmY[/youtube]
I tell ya these folks have got their shit together.
They make me proud to be an American.
Here something from Alex Jones ...
http://revolutionarypolitics.com/?p=1615Wayne Madsen on Alex Jones Tv NSA, Thermite & Flight 93!
Wayne talks about the report I posted about NSA coming down on any of their employees that talk about 911. They are doing everything they can to keep things quiet.
So many reports just crawling from the internet ... it's like it's never ending! ... move over Michael Jackson!
Here's another interesting report ... check this one out ...
http://www.911blogger.com/node/20614Professor Pileni's Resignation as Editor-in-Chief of the Open Chemical Physics Journal
After the paper entitled "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe," which I along with eight colleagues co-authored, was published in the Open Chemical Physics Journal, its editor-in-chief, Professor Marie-Paule Pileni, abruptly resigned. It has been suggested that this resignation casts doubt on the scientific soundness of our paper.
However, Professor Pileni did the only thing she could do, if she wanted to save her career. After resigning, she did not criticize our paper. Rather, she said that she could not read and evaluate it, because, she claimed, it lies outside the areas of her expertise.
But that is not true, as shown by information contained on her own website (http://www.sri.jussieu.fr/pileni.htm). Her List of Publications reveals that Professor Pileni has published hundreds of articles in the field of nanoscience and nanotechnology. She is, in fact, recognized as one of the leaders in the field. Her statement about her major advanced research points out that, already by 2003, she was the 25th highest cited scientist on nanotechnology (http://www.sri.jussieu.fr/pileni.htm
WACLA delivers scientific proof of TREASON to members of Congress and other D.C. players. DAY ONE
[youtube]mtCxBNaKr90&feature=channel_page[/youtube]
This is day two ... there was one congress woman who was receptive to the information.
Now notice folks in these video they will give the name and what committee if any these congress people are on. Pay particular attention to their reactions ... very interesting.
WACLA delivers scientific proof of TREASON to members of Congress and other D.C. players. DAY TWO
[youtube]vrcSaxKCtmY[/youtube]
I tell ya these folks have got their shit together.
They make me proud to be an American.Here something from Alex Jones ...
http://revolutionarypolitics.com/?p=1615Wayne Madsen on Alex Jones Tv NSA, Thermite & Flight 93!
Wayne talks about the report I posted about NSA coming down on any of their employees that talk about 911. They are doing everything they can to keep things quiet.
So many reports just crawling from the internet ... it's like it's never ending! ... move over Michael Jackson!
Here's another interesting report ... check this one out ...
http://www.911blogger.com/node/20614Professor Pileni's Resignation as Editor-in-Chief of the Open Chemical Physics Journal
After the paper entitled "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe," which I along with eight colleagues co-authored, was published in the Open Chemical Physics Journal, its editor-in-chief, Professor Marie-Paule Pileni, abruptly resigned. It has been suggested that this resignation casts doubt on the scientific soundness of our paper.
However, Professor Pileni did the only thing she could do, if she wanted to save her career. After resigning, she did not criticize our paper. Rather, she said that she could not read and evaluate it, because, she claimed, it lies outside the areas of her expertise.
But that is not true, as shown by information contained on her own website (http://www.sri.jussieu.fr/pileni.htm). Her List of Publications reveals that Professor Pileni has published hundreds of articles in the field of nanoscience and nanotechnology. She is, in fact, recognized as one of the leaders in the field. Her statement about her major advanced research points out that, already by 2003, she was the 25th highest cited scientist on nanotechnology (http://www.sri.jussieu.fr/pileni.htm
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
Here's a link to a video that give an into nanotechnology. It will wow you. They take a hair ... and say a nano is 100,000th of that ... wow.
http://americansjourney.blogspot.com/2009/07/nanotech-and-911.htmlVideos: Intro to Nanotech + 911 Truth
As the 911 Truth movement moves along it is a challenge for members of the Truth movement to keep informed. I hope these videos will help in this regard
The second video is a video that has already been posted. You can watch it again if you wish ... still very interesting.
http://americansjourney.blogspot.com/2009/07/nanotech-and-911.htmlVideos: Intro to Nanotech + 911 Truth
As the 911 Truth movement moves along it is a challenge for members of the Truth movement to keep informed. I hope these videos will help in this regard
The second video is a video that has already been posted. You can watch it again if you wish ... still very interesting.
huffy420
Well-Known Member
Check out this one. This guy is a controlled demolitions expert who had no previous knowledge about the collapse of WTC 7. He watched it before being told what it was and was in SHOCK when he finds out if fell on 9/11 as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=877gr6xtQIc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=877gr6xtQIc
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
Nice find huffy ... and I get the impression this guy bought the bullshit about the other two towers ... so it was really a shock when he found out that tower fell on 911 too, he had no explanation other than it was demo
Here a video I found ... it's of a French comic that is talking about it. He plans to talk to Obama about it. That should be good if he video the interview. Funny how we have to depend on comics to get the real news.
Famous French Comic Bigard To Address Obama About 9/11
You may recall a previous article about the famous French Comic Jean-Marie Bigard published here on 911blogger in October 2008. Jean-Marie Bigard was fiercely criticized for publicly claiming that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were an “enormous lie”. Since then he has become persona non grata in the media because of his “deviant thinking”.
However, Bigard isn’t letting all of this get him down: “Opening my big mouth cost me a lot. But I think what has cost me even more was keeping my big mouth shut. So now I’ve decided never to shut my big mouth again”, Bigard said recently.
He has two videos ... in the first he talks about the passport that was found ... in the second he ask the same questions I did about NORAD standing down. I hate the can laughs, but I guess that's how the French do it.
Here's another report for a calling for a new investigation ...
Ex-FBI Agent: Why I Support a New 9/11 Investigation
After 9-11, with the knowledge I had of the bitter internal dispute inside the FBI that was being hushed up but had kept some of our better agents from possibly uncovering more of the 9-11 plot before it happened, I couldn’t forget two of the slides in that Law Enforcement ethics curriculum: “DO NOT: Puff, Shade, Tailor, Firm up, Stretch, Massage, or Tidy up statements of fact.” And “Misplaced Loyalties: As employees of the FBI, we must be aware that our highest loyalty is to the United States Constitution. We should never sacrifice the truth in order to obtain a desired result (e.g. conviction of a defendant) or to avoid personal or institutional embarrassment.”
BREAKING NEWS!
NYCCAN
The New York City Coalition for Accountability Now has come together to lead a disciplined and patriotic search for answers about September 11th towards one tangible goal: the creation of an independent and impartial subpoena powered investigation into the September 11th attacks on our great nation.
On November 3, 2009, we will go to the polls to vote for answers to the unanswered questions and for solutions to the illnesses afflicting thousands of first responders and NYC residents.
This is great news ... if these guys and put the pressure on for an independent investigation, and they have a legal right to it ... there will be a lot of government elite sweating over it ... you can bet on that ... I will be watching closely this November.
More news ...
Washington set to buy Silverstein's WTC lease
The US government is poised to buy the lease on the destroyed World Trade Centre from the property magnate Larry Silverstein in an attempt to seize the initiative in the increasingly bitter dispute about the future of the site.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Because the dispute is calling attention to the very strange acquisition of the site by Silverman in the first place, and his even stranger buying of excessive anti-terror insurance on the complex.
Another video in response to WACLA ...
911 New Investigation - Ron Paul And Adam Kokesh Answer Sheriff Mack's Initiative
[youtube]c79Z9sxVAKU&feature=channel[/youtube]
Retired Sheriff Richard Mack from Graham county, AZ. Recently authored "The Sheriff County - America's Last Hope" and in a recent interview he called for a new independent 911 investigation and offered to participate.
Here a video I found ... it's of a French comic that is talking about it. He plans to talk to Obama about it. That should be good if he video the interview. Funny how we have to depend on comics to get the real news.
Famous French Comic Bigard To Address Obama About 9/11
You may recall a previous article about the famous French Comic Jean-Marie Bigard published here on 911blogger in October 2008. Jean-Marie Bigard was fiercely criticized for publicly claiming that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were an “enormous lie”. Since then he has become persona non grata in the media because of his “deviant thinking”.
However, Bigard isn’t letting all of this get him down: “Opening my big mouth cost me a lot. But I think what has cost me even more was keeping my big mouth shut. So now I’ve decided never to shut my big mouth again”, Bigard said recently.
He has two videos ... in the first he talks about the passport that was found ... in the second he ask the same questions I did about NORAD standing down. I hate the can laughs, but I guess that's how the French do it.
Here's another report for a calling for a new investigation ...
Ex-FBI Agent: Why I Support a New 9/11 Investigation
After 9-11, with the knowledge I had of the bitter internal dispute inside the FBI that was being hushed up but had kept some of our better agents from possibly uncovering more of the 9-11 plot before it happened, I couldn’t forget two of the slides in that Law Enforcement ethics curriculum: “DO NOT: Puff, Shade, Tailor, Firm up, Stretch, Massage, or Tidy up statements of fact.” And “Misplaced Loyalties: As employees of the FBI, we must be aware that our highest loyalty is to the United States Constitution. We should never sacrifice the truth in order to obtain a desired result (e.g. conviction of a defendant) or to avoid personal or institutional embarrassment.”
BREAKING NEWS!
NYCCAN
The New York City Coalition for Accountability Now has come together to lead a disciplined and patriotic search for answers about September 11th towards one tangible goal: the creation of an independent and impartial subpoena powered investigation into the September 11th attacks on our great nation.
On November 3, 2009, we will go to the polls to vote for answers to the unanswered questions and for solutions to the illnesses afflicting thousands of first responders and NYC residents.
This is great news ... if these guys and put the pressure on for an independent investigation, and they have a legal right to it ... there will be a lot of government elite sweating over it ... you can bet on that ... I will be watching closely this November.
More news ...
Washington set to buy Silverstein's WTC lease
The US government is poised to buy the lease on the destroyed World Trade Centre from the property magnate Larry Silverstein in an attempt to seize the initiative in the increasingly bitter dispute about the future of the site.
Webmaster's Commentary:
Because the dispute is calling attention to the very strange acquisition of the site by Silverman in the first place, and his even stranger buying of excessive anti-terror insurance on the complex.
Another video in response to WACLA ...
911 New Investigation - Ron Paul And Adam Kokesh Answer Sheriff Mack's Initiative
[youtube]c79Z9sxVAKU&feature=channel[/youtube]
Retired Sheriff Richard Mack from Graham county, AZ. Recently authored "The Sheriff County - America's Last Hope" and in a recent interview he called for a new independent 911 investigation and offered to participate.
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
I found a dated video that really sums up the evidence well ... in fact I would love to hear from the government believers to explain a few things ... you guys are so good at it I can't wait to hear how you are going to disregard these "facts".
This video is on Google ... it is a little over 18 minutes long ... I know how the government believers never bother to watch any videos so I will write out the questions the video presented. Give us your brilliant explanation on this
911 Justice
Question 1 ...
Why was General Myers ... the man in charge of air defense was promoted to chairman of the joint chief of staff one week after the worst breech of military defense in history with not one shot fire to stop those planes? Why wasn't this man fired?
Question 2
At 1:45 min into the video it makes the point I made. We are expected to believe the that a slow moving large air craft can penetrate military air space and defense design to stop super sonic jets and missiles without being fire upon? Not to mention this plane was able to do it 50 minutes AFTER we knew the country was under attack. Please explain that one. Where was NORAD?
Question 3
At 2:15 the film state that we are expect to believe that before hitting the pentagon the plane was able to make a 250 degree turn exposing it's broad side and it not being fire upon? Reports revealed that if the plane had not made this incredible turn and went in on a straight course it would have hit the office of Rumsfeld and other top brass officials ... hummmm.
Question 4
3:45 into the video a Frank A DeMartini manager of the WTC construction & project management talks about how no skyscraper has ever collapse due to plane strike or fire ... and shows example of buildings ... that fell or collapsed in the past. He also states as I have that those building were design to withstand the impact of SEVERAL 707 which are heavier than the plane that hit the tower. 4:30 into the video he states why. Explain that one ... and please don't tried and tell us that the man in charge of construction of the towers is lying or doesn't know what he is talking about. That won't fly.
Remember folks documents show that all the plane fuel was gone 20 minutes after impact ... those infra-red photos I posted proves that ...
Question 5
5:00 into the video you see the explosions coming from the building as it collapses. They have arrows pointing them out. And it is not "force air" because you can see the same shit when they show a picture of a building being demo. Where did all the explosive force come from ... since we know the building cooled after the jet fuel ran out ... Explain that.
And if you want to go with the pancake theory ... don't ... the central tower was indestructable ... it would have still been standing. At 5:30 the video goes over the construction of the building and how it's impossible for it to come down for the reasons the government gave.
Question 6
At 6:00 into the video they show a building that pancaked in the past and it look NOTHING like what was left of the WTC. Where are the floors that should have been pancaked from the WTC? Explain that one.
6:20 into the video they show the explosive charges that took out the building then showed a building being demo ... same shit different day.
Question 7
At 8:11 they show Larry Silverstein stating "they" decided to have WTC 7 demolished ... who are "they" and how could "they" place explosives in key positions in a burning building? That shit takes months of planning so how did "they" know "they" were going to need to "pull" a building on 911? Plus how do we know that "they" didn't "pull" the other buildings as well?
Question 8
At 11:50 the video shows documents of drills the military did 3 months before 911 where planes flew into the WTC, yet Rice claimed they never dream that could happen ... explain that one.
Question 9
At 14:00 the video makes the same aguement I made about the fighters ... not to mention the fact that they DIDN'T need orders to shoot down planes that go off course ... someone gave an order NOT to shoot ... but listen to this part ...
At 15:14 into the video a guy by the name of Norman Mineta the transportation secretary accidently told the bogus 911 commission who gave the order NOT TO intercept those planes ... guess who? Explain to us government believes why when the aid kept coming to the bunker stating the distance of the plane as it closed in ... when he returned for the last time and told them the plane was 10 miles out and ask did the order still stand he was told "of course the order still stands ... have you heard anything to the contrary?" What was that order? We know it couldn't have been to intercept ... now don't we ... I'd love to hear you government believers so called explanation on that one. It's more proof that 911 was indeed an inside job.
Folks on their best day these government believers will never be able to explain away the evidence presented in this video ... NO WAY ... but lets see if they make a feeble attempt.
This video is on Google ... it is a little over 18 minutes long ... I know how the government believers never bother to watch any videos so I will write out the questions the video presented. Give us your brilliant explanation on this
911 Justice
Question 1 ...
Why was General Myers ... the man in charge of air defense was promoted to chairman of the joint chief of staff one week after the worst breech of military defense in history with not one shot fire to stop those planes? Why wasn't this man fired?
Question 2
At 1:45 min into the video it makes the point I made. We are expected to believe the that a slow moving large air craft can penetrate military air space and defense design to stop super sonic jets and missiles without being fire upon? Not to mention this plane was able to do it 50 minutes AFTER we knew the country was under attack. Please explain that one. Where was NORAD?
Question 3
At 2:15 the film state that we are expect to believe that before hitting the pentagon the plane was able to make a 250 degree turn exposing it's broad side and it not being fire upon? Reports revealed that if the plane had not made this incredible turn and went in on a straight course it would have hit the office of Rumsfeld and other top brass officials ... hummmm.
Question 4
3:45 into the video a Frank A DeMartini manager of the WTC construction & project management talks about how no skyscraper has ever collapse due to plane strike or fire ... and shows example of buildings ... that fell or collapsed in the past. He also states as I have that those building were design to withstand the impact of SEVERAL 707 which are heavier than the plane that hit the tower. 4:30 into the video he states why. Explain that one ... and please don't tried and tell us that the man in charge of construction of the towers is lying or doesn't know what he is talking about. That won't fly.
Remember folks documents show that all the plane fuel was gone 20 minutes after impact ... those infra-red photos I posted proves that ...
Question 5
5:00 into the video you see the explosions coming from the building as it collapses. They have arrows pointing them out. And it is not "force air" because you can see the same shit when they show a picture of a building being demo. Where did all the explosive force come from ... since we know the building cooled after the jet fuel ran out ... Explain that.
And if you want to go with the pancake theory ... don't ... the central tower was indestructable ... it would have still been standing. At 5:30 the video goes over the construction of the building and how it's impossible for it to come down for the reasons the government gave.
Question 6
At 6:00 into the video they show a building that pancaked in the past and it look NOTHING like what was left of the WTC. Where are the floors that should have been pancaked from the WTC? Explain that one.
6:20 into the video they show the explosive charges that took out the building then showed a building being demo ... same shit different day.
Question 7
At 8:11 they show Larry Silverstein stating "they" decided to have WTC 7 demolished ... who are "they" and how could "they" place explosives in key positions in a burning building? That shit takes months of planning so how did "they" know "they" were going to need to "pull" a building on 911? Plus how do we know that "they" didn't "pull" the other buildings as well?
Question 8
At 11:50 the video shows documents of drills the military did 3 months before 911 where planes flew into the WTC, yet Rice claimed they never dream that could happen ... explain that one.
Question 9
At 14:00 the video makes the same aguement I made about the fighters ... not to mention the fact that they DIDN'T need orders to shoot down planes that go off course ... someone gave an order NOT to shoot ... but listen to this part ...
At 15:14 into the video a guy by the name of Norman Mineta the transportation secretary accidently told the bogus 911 commission who gave the order NOT TO intercept those planes ... guess who?
Explain to us government believes why when the aid kept coming to the bunker stating the distance of the plane as it closed in ... when he returned for the last time and told them the plane was 10 miles out and ask did the order still stand he was told "of course the order still stands ... have you heard anything to the contrary?" What was that order? We know it couldn't have been to intercept ... now don't we ... I'd love to hear you government believers so called explanation on that one. It's more proof that 911 was indeed an inside job.Folks on their best day these government believers will never be able to explain away the evidence presented in this video ... NO WAY ... but lets see if they make a feeble attempt.
Dolce Vita
Active Member
does anybody see the resembelance between 911 and out country becoming socialist. and germany's socialist govt burning the reichstag??
jrh72582
Well-Known Member
Whether or not 9/11 was a big conspiracy or not, we already know the Bush administration capitalized on the fear by taking away our liberties. Was their big plan to take these liberties away so that they could implement socialism? No. They just wanted to exploit so they could get richer and it worked. They got more control. More control does not equal socialism. Socialism requires more control, but it's not the only avenue. Do you understand what I'm saying?
I don't think the grand scheme all along was to implement socialism. Bush had completely different ideologies in mind. And I'm sorry, but I have no youtube videos to back up my claims so you'll dismiss me anyway.
snowmanexpress
Well-Known Member
I know in late 2002 I seen a pic of the left side of flgt 77. I never seen that pic again. Ive scoured for years looking for that pic.
Almost looked digitally enhanced, from the gate vids or helipad area at the pent. I swear to you i seen the plane and the sun glaring off the windows, and the cockpit, a plane, almost level to the ground, gears up, I could see 3 passengers faces on the plane, a woman, with a look of horror on her face, it may have been fake, but stuck with me for years.
Everytime I hear about a conspiracy, I try to think of that pic that I KNOW I SEEN, and remind myself how much it made me change my thoughts and views on this.
All the gov has to do is release this vid, or pic to us to shut the conspiracy down. I believe they won't, because they value the lives of more than proving something in my own heart I believe that. Its not my religion twisting me, or thoughts planted conveniently in my mind. I know what I seen that day I cried nonstop.
Almost looked digitally enhanced, from the gate vids or helipad area at the pent. I swear to you i seen the plane and the sun glaring off the windows, and the cockpit, a plane, almost level to the ground, gears up, I could see 3 passengers faces on the plane, a woman, with a look of horror on her face, it may have been fake, but stuck with me for years.
Everytime I hear about a conspiracy, I try to think of that pic that I KNOW I SEEN, and remind myself how much it made me change my thoughts and views on this.
All the gov has to do is release this vid, or pic to us to shut the conspiracy down. I believe they won't, because they value the lives of more than proving something in my own heart I believe that. Its not my religion twisting me, or thoughts planted conveniently in my mind. I know what I seen that day I cried nonstop.
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily ... when you give your opinion and don't try to pass it off as a fact then you don't need a link ... some folks here and I won't mention any names wh, oloso, have a problem with doing things like that ...
It's going to take more than a video to shut the conspiracy down. The ONLY way they are going to do that is to have an independent non partisan investigation where witnesses must testify in public under oath ... which they would rather kill us than do that. According to Alex Jones most people in corporate media already know 911 was an inside job ... they are just afraid to talk about it. I don't believe they are afraid ... I believe it goes against their best interests.
Now ... does anyone have an answer to one or more of the questions from the video I posted?
So the plane flying into the pentagon would explain the 2 towers and WTC #7,
I very much doubt it would have ANY effect on the truth movement at all since it does absolutely nothing to debunk the WTC collapses. You just keep believing that steel building can fall into themselves at any minute with minimal damage.
snowmanexpress
Well-Known Member
Yes, you show me the plane it will shut down all you guys. I know you seen it rebel.
You....im sorry I didnt mean to say you, not "you" rebel, "it" holds no water, to me, this idea, Its been almost a decade of this so called "catalyzing event"
How far back do you wanna go? Pearl Harbor? American Revolution? Civil War? Hitler? Where is the catalyst? How far back tell me? All the way back to this bible ha?
Im hoping for a life of happyness and well-being for all. Optimistic ideals someone said to me. And I refuse to believe this story, Alex Jones, or the media.
I have eyes, ears, a mouth, and lately, fingers on a stupid ass keyboard and this piece of junk called a mouse.
I respect you, greatly sir, and your views, I hope we all find some kind of truth together in the world. I highly doubt we will find human morals in the wings of court on this matter. And this may go deeper than justice and a gavel.
You....im sorry I didnt mean to say you, not "you" rebel, "it" holds no water, to me, this idea, Its been almost a decade of this so called "catalyzing event"
How far back do you wanna go? Pearl Harbor? American Revolution? Civil War? Hitler? Where is the catalyst? How far back tell me? All the way back to this bible ha?
Im hoping for a life of happyness and well-being for all. Optimistic ideals someone said to me. And I refuse to believe this story, Alex Jones, or the media.
I have eyes, ears, a mouth, and lately, fingers on a stupid ass keyboard and this piece of junk called a mouse.
I respect you, greatly sir, and your views, I hope we all find some kind of truth together in the world. I highly doubt we will find human morals in the wings of court on this matter. And this may go deeper than justice and a gavel.
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
If you mean the plane you described in your last post ... no I haven't seen or heard anything about it. I'm not saying you didn't, but I have not heard of it. It could have been a fake picture, and like NO stated ... it still doesn't address the WTC towers.
I'm shocked it's taking this long to fully bring the truth to the Light. The elite that want to control us have a firm hand in the corporate media and the WH. But just because it's taking a long time doesn't mean we can't pursue the truth.
How far back do I want to go? 911 ... does that answer your question?
You don't have to believe Jones or the media ... just look at the clear evidence ... it's not the messenger ... it's the message and the evidence. What about the evidence that has been presented in this thread you doubt and why? Are you comfortable that no heads rolled after the worst security breech in US history?
Who? .... me? ... I'm not a sir.
I ain't gonna argue with that. There is no doubt 911 goes deeper ... and it's going to be up to the people to stop the elite and their plans for world domination.
Dolce Vita
Active Member
if the government was not hiding anything in their report, then why would they not want an independant investigation?? they would come to the same conclusion as the govt if their report was right. am i right?
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
[URL="http://www.reinvestigate911.org/"]Reinvestigate 911 Breaks into Parliament[/url]
In a breakthrough for campaigners, a meeting has been held in the new Parliamentary extension Portcullis House at which speakers challenged the official story of the 9/11 attacks. This was the first time since the attacks nearly eight years ago that MPs and Peers heard - on their own premises - the widespread view outside it: that 9/11 might have been an inside job.
Might be? Please!
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911-truth-still-in-a-cloud-of-smoke.htmlhttp://www.prisonplanet.com/911-truth-still-in-a-cloud-of-smoke.html[URL="http://www.prisonplanet.com/911-truth-still-in-a-cloud-of-smoke.html"]9/11 truth still in a cloud of smoke? [/url]
Eight years after the tragedy of 9/11, questions remain unanswered. A group of experts has convened in Washington to discuss what they think happened. Their theories are in stark contrast to the official version.
No!
Oh and notice in the video that no corporate media is present at this meeting of experts ... I wonder why?
In a breakthrough for campaigners, a meeting has been held in the new Parliamentary extension Portcullis House at which speakers challenged the official story of the 9/11 attacks. This was the first time since the attacks nearly eight years ago that MPs and Peers heard - on their own premises - the widespread view outside it: that 9/11 might have been an inside job.
Might be? Please!
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911-truth-still-in-a-cloud-of-smoke.htmlhttp://www.prisonplanet.com/911-truth-still-in-a-cloud-of-smoke.html[URL="http://www.prisonplanet.com/911-truth-still-in-a-cloud-of-smoke.html"]9/11 truth still in a cloud of smoke? [/url]
Eight years after the tragedy of 9/11, questions remain unanswered. A group of experts has convened in Washington to discuss what they think happened. Their theories are in stark contrast to the official version.
No!
Oh and notice in the video that no corporate media is present at this meeting of experts ... I wonder why?
i found this post that really explains why jet fuel cannot be the cause of the steel failing.
"LRRP 1968 Says:
July 16th, 2009 at 5:56 am the World Trade Center buildings collapsed as a result of fires ignited by jet fuel.
The above is absolutely and physically impossible. Thermodynamics 101.
Weakened steel does not fail explosively. It gradually loses strength along its stress-strain curve and then only in the areas that attain the temperatures required to fail. Steel is an excellent heat conductor and will conduct heat away from the point of application. The materials specific heat will show you how much it has to absorb in order to get hot. This is measured in BTUs / mass. You can have flames as hot as you like but if there is not enough heat energy available to heat up the material you will do nothing.
An example of this is your stove at home. A gas range burns propane at 3254 F. An aluminum pan melts at 1220 F. This should make it impossible to cook on a gas range, as the pan would melt or at least soften into putty, but it does not because heating materials is complex and actually pretty difficult. Heat goes away very fast and you have to continue to pour BTUs into it above the rate that it loses the heat. This is not easy.
I just made myself a omelet, the pan miraculously didnt melt.
There was not enough heat value in the jet fuel to come anywhere close to making the steel hot enough to fail. You will run out fuel long before that happens and the math is straight forward.
You simply take the tons of steel in question, the amount of BTUs it would take to make the steel hot, including the concrete and the air and you just cant do it.
In fact it is so far from possible, the fires cannot be a factor, the temperature would not have even come close to the starting of the elastic region.
Anyone who repeats the jet fuel burns at xxx and steel loses yy% of it strength at xxx temp is an idiot or a liar or just cannot understand the physics involved here.
That this was an official explanation tells me that they are lying. When a suspect lies, ask any cop what that tells him.
as an aside, jet fuel burns at 1800 degrees all right IN A JET ENGINE. A jet engine forces air through a compressor to get enough volume and mass of O2 to support the combustion. You cannot get the fuel to burn at anywhere near that temp in open air, there is not enough mass air flow for an optimal stoichiometric ratio.
Even if you could, which you cant kerosene only yields 18,500 Btu/lb in perfect conditions.
In open air youd be lucky to get 20% of that efficiency, but even at 100% efficiency there arent enough BTUs to heat up the steel past about 700 degrees.
If you use a full fuel loading with zero gallons burned in the fireball and zero gallons sent down the elevator shaft to blow up the lobby you still only have enough fuel to to get the steel up to 500 degrees or so. Thats with optimal heat transfer into the steel, best case conditions of delta-T and R values, with worst case delta-t for the heat LOSS from the steel. As material heat up they radiate and conduct heat AWAY at a rate governed by the temperature and ambient factors. So the hotter the steel gets the more heat it LOSES. This is why steel mills use crucibles to hold the steel as well as the heat.
The specific heat of steel is 240 btu/ton per degree > to raise the temp from ambient to 1800 degrees would require 432,000 btu/s ton at OPTIMAL efficiency. The concrete requires even more over 800,000 btus.
The the air also has to heat up, and air being a poor conductor and all the humidity in the air, the specific heat of water is 8 times higher than steel and 5 times high than concrete.
Its a rather long equation but not really complex. Bottom line, not enough BTU to make the steel hot enough to fail. Cant be done. Something else brought the buildings down. If they didnt fall immediately after the impacts there is now way the fires could have triggered it as the tensile and compressive strength of the steel did not change at all ( reference the stress-strain diagram for structural steel) after the fires did their work. It never exceeded its maximum working stress, if it did, the top would have fallen over towards the point of maximum damage. It would have done this slowly as the stress progressed along to top of the curve to the point of maximum or ultimate strength. The metal would be very deformed at this point.
From the the origin to the point called proportional limit, the stress-strain curve is a straight line. This is called Hookes Law that within the proportional limit, the stress is directly proportional to strain up to the elastic limit. That is the limit beyond which the material will no longer go back to its original shape when the load is removed, or it is the maximum stress that may be developed such that there is no permanent or residual deformation when the load is entirely removed.
The structural damage by the impact either failed the structure right away or the it brought it past the elastic limit. If it reached a certain point the curve here is actually longer that the portion from 0-the EL, the steel will start to deform plastically, that is bend like taffy. There was zero evidence of this.
The diagram for the temperatures tells us that the steel would have to attain a consistent temperature across the entire beam of way over 1500-1800 degrees, a point stress is not enough to induce failure, and there is no way to a localized temperature peak this high without the heat conducting to the rest of the beam. This is shown by the transfer equation is governed by the composition and shape of the beam, Shape is vital in that an I-beam or box had a high surface area to volume ratio, This means heat loss radiated away form the source of the heat is going to be very high, also humidity in the air will absorb the heat faster as water can take a lot of heat before raising its temperature so initial heat transfer AWAY form the steel will be even higher.
If as they will say that the fireproofing was all blown away by the impact makes it even harder, as the steel can radiate more heat if it is uncovered.
We can also calculate the rate of heat transfer INTO the steel beams. It is a function of the differential temperature, the specific heat of the steel, the surface area of the expose material and the R value of the air or any remaining building materials between the flame and the steel, as well as the airflow ( mass flow rate of hot air).
Al these factors except R can be definitively identified. using the maximum value for R, youd run out of fuel ( assuming 100% fuel loading on the plane with zero for elevator shaft and fireball) before you got a 700 degree T-rise anywhere.
But the Kean Commission weenies also state that vast amounts of fuel poured down the elevator shafts to account for the damage to the ground floor. So where that that leave us?
Youd be lucky to be able to do a marshmallow roast with what was left after the fireball anyway.
It doesnt work and there is no way to make it work. the official story is a sham and any one who believes it is an ignorant fool. "
What you think???? Don't you just love science?
"LRRP 1968 Says:
July 16th, 2009 at 5:56 am the World Trade Center buildings collapsed as a result of fires ignited by jet fuel.
The above is absolutely and physically impossible. Thermodynamics 101.
Weakened steel does not fail explosively. It gradually loses strength along its stress-strain curve and then only in the areas that attain the temperatures required to fail. Steel is an excellent heat conductor and will conduct heat away from the point of application. The materials specific heat will show you how much it has to absorb in order to get hot. This is measured in BTUs / mass. You can have flames as hot as you like but if there is not enough heat energy available to heat up the material you will do nothing.
An example of this is your stove at home. A gas range burns propane at 3254 F. An aluminum pan melts at 1220 F. This should make it impossible to cook on a gas range, as the pan would melt or at least soften into putty, but it does not because heating materials is complex and actually pretty difficult. Heat goes away very fast and you have to continue to pour BTUs into it above the rate that it loses the heat. This is not easy.
I just made myself a omelet, the pan miraculously didnt melt.
There was not enough heat value in the jet fuel to come anywhere close to making the steel hot enough to fail. You will run out fuel long before that happens and the math is straight forward.
You simply take the tons of steel in question, the amount of BTUs it would take to make the steel hot, including the concrete and the air and you just cant do it.
In fact it is so far from possible, the fires cannot be a factor, the temperature would not have even come close to the starting of the elastic region.
Anyone who repeats the jet fuel burns at xxx and steel loses yy% of it strength at xxx temp is an idiot or a liar or just cannot understand the physics involved here.
That this was an official explanation tells me that they are lying. When a suspect lies, ask any cop what that tells him.
as an aside, jet fuel burns at 1800 degrees all right IN A JET ENGINE. A jet engine forces air through a compressor to get enough volume and mass of O2 to support the combustion. You cannot get the fuel to burn at anywhere near that temp in open air, there is not enough mass air flow for an optimal stoichiometric ratio.
Even if you could, which you cant kerosene only yields 18,500 Btu/lb in perfect conditions.
In open air youd be lucky to get 20% of that efficiency, but even at 100% efficiency there arent enough BTUs to heat up the steel past about 700 degrees.
If you use a full fuel loading with zero gallons burned in the fireball and zero gallons sent down the elevator shaft to blow up the lobby you still only have enough fuel to to get the steel up to 500 degrees or so. Thats with optimal heat transfer into the steel, best case conditions of delta-T and R values, with worst case delta-t for the heat LOSS from the steel. As material heat up they radiate and conduct heat AWAY at a rate governed by the temperature and ambient factors. So the hotter the steel gets the more heat it LOSES. This is why steel mills use crucibles to hold the steel as well as the heat.
The specific heat of steel is 240 btu/ton per degree > to raise the temp from ambient to 1800 degrees would require 432,000 btu/s ton at OPTIMAL efficiency. The concrete requires even more over 800,000 btus.
The the air also has to heat up, and air being a poor conductor and all the humidity in the air, the specific heat of water is 8 times higher than steel and 5 times high than concrete.
Its a rather long equation but not really complex. Bottom line, not enough BTU to make the steel hot enough to fail. Cant be done. Something else brought the buildings down. If they didnt fall immediately after the impacts there is now way the fires could have triggered it as the tensile and compressive strength of the steel did not change at all ( reference the stress-strain diagram for structural steel) after the fires did their work. It never exceeded its maximum working stress, if it did, the top would have fallen over towards the point of maximum damage. It would have done this slowly as the stress progressed along to top of the curve to the point of maximum or ultimate strength. The metal would be very deformed at this point.
From the the origin to the point called proportional limit, the stress-strain curve is a straight line. This is called Hookes Law that within the proportional limit, the stress is directly proportional to strain up to the elastic limit. That is the limit beyond which the material will no longer go back to its original shape when the load is removed, or it is the maximum stress that may be developed such that there is no permanent or residual deformation when the load is entirely removed.
The structural damage by the impact either failed the structure right away or the it brought it past the elastic limit. If it reached a certain point the curve here is actually longer that the portion from 0-the EL, the steel will start to deform plastically, that is bend like taffy. There was zero evidence of this.
The diagram for the temperatures tells us that the steel would have to attain a consistent temperature across the entire beam of way over 1500-1800 degrees, a point stress is not enough to induce failure, and there is no way to a localized temperature peak this high without the heat conducting to the rest of the beam. This is shown by the transfer equation is governed by the composition and shape of the beam, Shape is vital in that an I-beam or box had a high surface area to volume ratio, This means heat loss radiated away form the source of the heat is going to be very high, also humidity in the air will absorb the heat faster as water can take a lot of heat before raising its temperature so initial heat transfer AWAY form the steel will be even higher.
If as they will say that the fireproofing was all blown away by the impact makes it even harder, as the steel can radiate more heat if it is uncovered.
We can also calculate the rate of heat transfer INTO the steel beams. It is a function of the differential temperature, the specific heat of the steel, the surface area of the expose material and the R value of the air or any remaining building materials between the flame and the steel, as well as the airflow ( mass flow rate of hot air).
Al these factors except R can be definitively identified. using the maximum value for R, youd run out of fuel ( assuming 100% fuel loading on the plane with zero for elevator shaft and fireball) before you got a 700 degree T-rise anywhere.
But the Kean Commission weenies also state that vast amounts of fuel poured down the elevator shafts to account for the damage to the ground floor. So where that that leave us?
Youd be lucky to be able to do a marshmallow roast with what was left after the fireball anyway.
It doesnt work and there is no way to make it work. the official story is a sham and any one who believes it is an ignorant fool. "
What you think???? Don't you just love science?
P
PadawanBater
Guest
GREAT post NoDrama!
That pretty much lays it all out. A lot of the stuff is exactly what I was thinking. If the fires caused the steel to stress to the point of collapse I would think you'd see some type of pancaking effect, like NIST tried to claim happened. But that's not what you see, what happens is the building just all of a sudden stresses and collapses, it barely leans at all, it almost comes straight down.
@snowman - The biggest hole in that theory is that the government HASN'T released any pictures of video footage of what struck the pentagon. Using the logic your using it would seem they are infact trying to hide something.
I mean, one of the most secure buildings on the face of the planet didn't pick up ANY clear evidence of EXACTLY what struck the pentagon?? I think it's more likely that they did pick up what hit it and there is a reason they havn't released it.
That alone would answer a lot of questions about 911. Why doesn't the government simply declassify the pics or videos they have to put all this to rest? Out of respect of the dead? That's bullshit, I'd never stand for that, if they have footage, I DEMAND they release it or I and many others have no choice about believing they're hiding something.
That pretty much lays it all out. A lot of the stuff is exactly what I was thinking. If the fires caused the steel to stress to the point of collapse I would think you'd see some type of pancaking effect, like NIST tried to claim happened. But that's not what you see, what happens is the building just all of a sudden stresses and collapses, it barely leans at all, it almost comes straight down.
Exactly! They'd claim something like it would waste too much taxpayers money, they'd play it out on their token brown noser, mainstream media, as if everyone pushing for an honest, open, nonpartisan, INDEPENDENT investigation is a kook, like they always do... When all anyone is asking for is the goddamn truth. Fuck the mainstream media.
@snowman - The biggest hole in that theory is that the government HASN'T released any pictures of video footage of what struck the pentagon. Using the logic your using it would seem they are infact trying to hide something.
I mean, one of the most secure buildings on the face of the planet didn't pick up ANY clear evidence of EXACTLY what struck the pentagon?? I think it's more likely that they did pick up what hit it and there is a reason they havn't released it.
That alone would answer a lot of questions about 911. Why doesn't the government simply declassify the pics or videos they have to put all this to rest? Out of respect of the dead? That's bullshit, I'd never stand for that, if they have footage, I DEMAND they release it or I and many others have no choice about believing they're hiding something.
what... huh?
Active Member
Your guy. Stephen E. Jones
http://web.archive.org/web/20051124053614/http://www.physics.byu.edu/faculty/jones/rel491/handstext+and+figures.htm
He believes he has evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, and that Jesus was running around in America 600 A.D. Awesome huh? Greatest accomplishment in physics to date? The solar funnel... for cooking. http://solarcooking.org/saveheat.htm
Don't you just love science?
I again point out that nano thermite reduces the ignition temperature to the point that it lights with regular ole fire. Everybody loves ignoring that. Go on... continue to... it suits.
Drama, you said that the thermite would not have to be on every floor... I would submit that it MUST be, as the building fell from the point of impact downward. Another often avoided fact... in order to create a seamless destruction from the top down, you would absolutely have to place xxx on each floor. Sorry I am so busy guys. I really need to devote more time to this... but such is life.
http://web.archive.org/web/20051124053614/http://www.physics.byu.edu/faculty/jones/rel491/handstext+and+figures.htm
He believes he has evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, and that Jesus was running around in America 600 A.D. Awesome huh? Greatest accomplishment in physics to date? The solar funnel... for cooking. http://solarcooking.org/saveheat.htm
Don't you just love science?
I again point out that nano thermite reduces the ignition temperature to the point that it lights with regular ole fire. Everybody loves ignoring that. Go on... continue to... it suits.
Drama, you said that the thermite would not have to be on every floor... I would submit that it MUST be, as the building fell from the point of impact downward. Another often avoided fact... in order to create a seamless destruction from the top down, you would absolutely have to place xxx on each floor. Sorry I am so busy guys. I really need to devote more time to this... but such is life.
GrowRebel
Well-Known Member
So are we to disregard science and facts ... not just Jones's ... because of his religious beliefs? Oh and for the great idea of solar cooking ... that's your argument for ignoring the obvious facts? How lame is that?
Yeah and you know why ... because it's one of those opinions you try to pretend is a fact when it isn't since you have provided nothing to back that opinion. Yes ... we will continue to ignore that.
It doesn't matter at this point how much was use ... the fact still remains that IT WAS USED. Case close.
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