Oh Goodie! ... More on 911 (inside job) :)

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GrowRebel

Well-Known Member
:finger:It's not an inside job!:finger: It is the work of terrorists:!: anyone who thinks otherwise, might as well be taliban shooting at our troops because they obviously aren't patriots!:finger:

And your proof the government is telling the truth other than doing this:finger:
Well as far as I'm concern the deniers are the ones "shooting at our troops" ... they are there because of the false flag operation ... you would rather see them die for a lie ... than accept the truth ... how sad.:finger::sleep:
 

GrowRebel

Well-Known Member
Thats just retarded on so many levels. So the twin towers were to gain support for war, or w/e the hell you nutjobs say it is for, but they threw in tower 7 just for the money...
How about you deniers learning to read the post before you make yourself look stupid ... I've already posted the reason if you are too much of an idiot to read or look at a video that's not our problem. Now go back to :sleep:
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Got any evidence or proof? or are you just gonna let What...Huh do all the dirty work?

I'll go with probabilities. The probability of an Al Queda attack (of which they indeed claimed the credit) is very high. The probability of a well coordinated conspiracy with many organizations is not high.

It's pretty simple. Then again, I have faith in the US. I have little faith in complicated conspiracies being hidden and then pulled off.

I have great faith that there are ppl willing to take advantage of other ppl's prejudices.

It is easy to spin up a conspiracy using hindsight.

It's even easier to be taken in by it.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
I'll go with probabilities. The probability of an Al Queda attack (of which they indeed claimed the credit) is very high. The probability of a well coordinated conspiracy with many organizations is not high.

It's pretty simple. Then again, I have faith in the US. I have little faith in complicated conspiracies being hidden and then pulled off.

I have great faith that there are ppl willing to take advantage of other ppl's prejudices.

It is easy to spin up a conspiracy using hindsight.

It's even easier to be taken in by it.

so your saying the odds are very high that a handful of Al-CIAda got onto a plane with box cutters,

hijacked airliners, crashed them into buildings, on the EXACT same day they were running a drill for the EXACT same incident?

thats much much more likely than the drill not being just a drill right?
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Remember the little example I gave about how if you take a small diameter steel wire and using a Bic lighter you can cause the wire to fail? Now try to do the same thing with a burning match, then try to do it with any amount of jet fuel. Guess what happens? It will not fail. You know why? the open burn temperature of wood is around 255C not anywhere close to soften steel, and the open flame temperature of petrol is 460C. What is the temp that steel will start to lose its structural properties? 650C. The butane flame burns at around 1900c. big difference, and most of you would have thought that the butane lighter was a "Normal" flame, I know WH sure thought so.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
It's not a communist plot. It's just gullibility raising its ugly head...again. People are easily misled.....there was no conspiracy, other than from the terrorists, and isn't that what the conspiracy advocates want, to lessen the roles of the terrorists?

Sorry, it's ALL on Al Queda.

Yep and 7 of the terrorists who slammed those planes into the WTC towers are still alive. At least according to official government sources. Some of them still live in the US also.
 

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
Other Skyscraper Fires

Fires Have Never Caused Skyscrapers to Collapse

[SIZE=-1] The One Meridian Plaza fire [/SIZE] Excepting the three 9-11 collapses, no fire, however severe, has ever caused a steel-framed high-rise building to collapse. Following are examples of high-rise fires that were far more severe than those in WTC 1 and 2, and Building 7. In these precedents, the fires consumed multiple floors, produced extensive window breakage, exhibited large areas of emergent flames, and went on for several hours. The fires in the WTC towers did none of these things.
The One Meridian Plaza Fire

One Meridian Plaza is a 38-floor skyscraper in Philadelphia that suffered a severe fire on February 23, 1991. The fire started on the 22nd floor and raged for 18 hours, gutting eight floors and causing an estimated $100 million in direct property loss. [SIZE=-1]1 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 2 [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 3 [/SIZE] It was later described by Philadelphia officials as "the most significant fire in this century".
The fire caused window breakage, cracking of granite, and failures of spandrel panel connections. [SIZE=-1] 4 [/SIZE] Despite the severity and duration of the fire, as evidenced by the damage the building sustained, no part of the building collapsed.
[SIZE=-1] The First Interstate Bank fire [/SIZE]
The First Interstate Bank Fire

The First Interstate Bank Building is a 62-story skyscraper in Los Angeles that suffered the worst high-rise fire in the city's history. From the late evening of May 4, 1988 through the early morning of the next day, 64 fire companies battled the blaze, which lasted for 3 1/2 hours. The fire caused extensive window breakage, which complicated firefighting efforts. Large flames jutted out of the building during the blaze. Firefighting efforts resulted in massive water damage to floors below the fire, and the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor, and caused extensive smoke damage to floors above. The fire caused an estimated $200 million in direct property loss. [SIZE=-1]5 [/SIZE]
A report by Iklim Ltd. describes the structural damage from the fire:
In spite of the total burnout of four and a half floors, there was no damage to the main structural members and only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor pans. [SIZE=-1] 6 [/SIZE]
The 1 New York Plaza Fire

[SIZE=-1] Close-up of the First Interstate Bank fire
Photo: New York Board of Underwriters [/SIZE] 1 New York Plaza is a 50-story office tower less than a mile from the World Trade Center site. It suffered a severe fire and explosion on August 5, 1970. The fire started around 6 PM, and burned for more than 6 hours. [SIZE=-1]7 [/SIZE]
Caracas Tower Fire

The tallest skyscraper in Caracas, Venezuela experienced a severe fire on October 17, 2004. The blaze began before midnight on the 34th floor, spread to more than 26 floors, and burned for more than 17 hours. Heat from the fires prevented firefighters from reaching the upper floors, and smoke injured 40 firefighters.
Lax enforcement of fire codes in Venezuela was blamed for the malfunctioning of water pumps and a lack of fire extinguishers inside of the building. Because the building was empty when the fire broke out, no civilians were killed or injured. [SIZE=-1]8 [/SIZE]
The Windsor Building Fire

[SIZE=-1] The Windsor Building fire [/SIZE] A more recent case of a severe high-rise fire is the one that destroyed the Windsor Building in Madrid, Spain on February 12, 2005. The Windsor fire was more severe than any of the fires described above, and the incident has been widely publicized, with comparisons to the fires in the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11/01. However, the Windsor Building, unlike all the buildings mentioned above, was framed in steel-reinforced concrete rather than steel. Hence it is described on a separate page, which notes differences between the response of these different types of structures to fires.
[SIZE=-1] 9 [/SIZE] The Beijing Mandarin Oriental Hotel Fire

[SIZE=-1] The Hotel Mandarin Oriental blazes [/SIZE] The most recent example of a spectacular skyscraper fire was the burning of the Hotel Mandarin Oriental starting on February 9, 2009. The nearly completed 520-foot-tall skyscraper in Beijing caught fire around 8:00 pm, was engulfed within 20 minutes, and burned for at least 3 hours until midnight. Despite the fact that the fire extended across all of the floors for a period of time and burned out of control for hours, no large portion of the structure collapsed.
It is tempting to draw parallels between this spectacle and the destruction of WTC 1, 2, and 7 because of the stark opposites: on 9/11/01, three skyscrapers were transformed into piles of rubble primarily as a consequence, supposedly, of fires -- fires spanning small fractions of each building; and on 2/09/09, a skyscraper remained intact after burning like a torch for hours. However such parallels may be limited by major structural differences between the buildings in the two cases -- one being that the Hotel Mandarin Oriental, designed by the famous Dutch architect Rem Koolhaas, had a full-height interior atrium, and thus had the hollowness that the 9-11 Commission deceptively attempted to attribute to the Twin Towers. [SIZE=-1]10[/SIZE]
Perhaps the relevance of the Mandarin fire to the events of 9/11/2001 is more symbolic than forensic.

Source: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

[youtube]oVH5jm06pJY[/youtube]

I don't know if this stuff has been posted as I'm waaay too high to go through 90+ pages :bigjoint:.

Now someone will argue, "Well, even if it was a military plane, they collapsed because of the fire!". :lol:

Forget everything you've been spoon fed people, wake up. The majority of what you've been told is bullshit. The biggest deception of man.

You act like we want to force a religion upon you, not true. We just want you to see the truth, what you do with it is up to you.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
None of the terrorists who slammed into the WTC are alive. There were no survivors.
Here is the "Official" 911 report, with the names of every one of the People involved. http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0406/S00195.htm

Satam al Suqami, Wail and Waleed al Shehri (two brothers) Both Alive, Abdul Aziz al Omari Alive, Fayez Banihammad (from the UAE), Ahmed al Ghamdi, Hamza al Ghamdi, Mohand al Shehri Alive, Saeed al Ghamdi Alive, Ahmad al Haznawi, Ahmed al Nami Alive, Majed Moqed, and Salem al Hazmi Alive (the brother of Nawaf al Hazmi).

taken from http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html

So you tell me. How can 7 of them still be alive? I mean this is the "Official" list the Government has out there to convince us all it went down like they said it did. So I know what it must be! You know how they found the Passport of Satam al-Suqami in near pristine condition? ~~~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satam_al-Suqami ~~~ well whatever it was that made that passport withstand a burning building that collapses with nary a scratch, must have also blessed those 7 terrorists who somehow are still alive. Maybe it was God?
 

what... huh?

Active Member
and most of you would have thought that the butane lighter was a "Normal" flame, I know WH sure thought so.
Did not. I told YOU the temp. I get credit for squat around here. I even asked you to specifically remember all that for the future. This is all so futile.


No building has ever been like wtc 1&2.

Find me a demolitions expert who can tell you how to do precision silent demo from the top down. The one I know says it is impossible.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
=
A butane lighter flame is about 1400C at the hottest part, and no matter of time will ever make it melt any part of a steel beam. Please keep that in mind for the future.
Thank you for agreeing that even a "not Normal" fire will not do what you say it will. Now since Butane burns at 3 times the temperature as jet fuel, and Butane is not hot enough to bring down the towers then how in the hell would "Normal" fires do it?

I think by the end of the thread you will be a part of the truth movement too WH. I mean so far you have helped the cause more than hindered it.
 

what... huh?

Active Member
So you keep saying. The pages demonstrate the headway I have made. I am and have been completely honest in this, which is less than I can say for many on your side. I have revealed my weaknesses, and personal feelings and motivations. You didn't understand my point. I think you miss a lot of my points, and try focusing on things you think are helping you, because you are not looking at the whole picture.

Ready to be disappointed?

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JaneFishler.shtml



I know right?

But wait... you might say... a match temp...

Your temp is wrong. Sort of. So is mine. It is an issue of averages. The majority of the flame is burning at a specific temp. The yellow/red part. It is a small portion of a simple candle or lighter flame which burns so hot.

Your concept of "temperature" of fires is simple, and flawed. You should look at it in terms of specific energy, not temperature. Of megajoules, not degrees. Energy is what transforms the objects it is applied to, not "heat". In controlled environments, we have measures in simple terms. Astrophysicists do not measure in those terms. To understand exactly how that gas fire, which cannot reach temperatures to melt steel, melted the steel frame of the truck, you have to understand specific energy.

I don't really understand it, and can't really explain it without better getting it myself. I am very sick right now, and am going to have to abandon this for a few days. I will be back. ND, I think you are a hell of a dude. The rest of you can choke on your own vomit... except Trees... and op420... and anyone who isn't grow rebel.


Peace.
 

what... huh?

Active Member
Last little bit I want to address. I don't NEED to believe this. I don't have issues with being wrong, my entire pursuit is to be right, sure... but truth exists, regardless of our perception of it. I, like you, want to know it.

I want to explain briefly a situation... pre 9/11.

Airline pilots were all very aware the only people who have, on many occasions, hijacked airplanes. You cannot help but be aware when they are on your airplane. My ex-wife had the uncanny ability to recall faces and names. I call it uncanny because I can't do it. She was the type of person who would meet you once, then see you after ten years, and know your wife, parents and childrens names.

She took note of middle eastern passengers. This group flew her route 3 times. She isn't wrong. Again... not offering it as evidence, explaining my position. I don't NEED to be right... I just am.
 

pot scott

Well-Known Member
i wish i could load up a warehouse full of 9/11 conspiricy theorists and put about 10 tons of dynamite in there and blow it up, we'd all be better off. that's for sure.
 

mexiblunt

Well-Known Member
So what do you call people who have no theories as to what happened but cannot buy the 911 commision report?
 

CrackerJax

New Member
It's really about taking the blame off Al Queda. All of the conspiracy "theories" :roll: have been shown to be false, but a core section of folks WANT it to be true...like alien abduction. I put 9/11 "theorists" in the very same category.
 

mexiblunt

Well-Known Member
I wish it were so black and white. I didn't start to question 911 because I thought ohh poor Al queda they are not guilty they should not be blamed for this.
 

natrone23

Well-Known Member
It's really about taking the blame off Al Queda. All of the conspiracy "theories" :roll: have been shown to be false, but a core section of folks WANT it to be true...like alien abduction. I put 9/11 "theorists" in the very same category.
Ok now apply that same logic to yourself and your "birther" theories.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
I am after real documents, not made up ones. I'm not hindsighting official documents, I only wish to SEE the documents. Obama's college admissions and ORIGINAL birth certificate are being hidden....big difference.
 

what... huh?

Active Member
I don't buy all of the NIST report either. 7 is tough to wrap your head around.

I don't know what structural damage occurs when two of the largest buildings in the world collapse near a perfectly good building. I have to imagine the intensity of seismic activity is pretty high. Much less part of the collapse falling on the building itself. I expect it is pretty devastating. I don't know if it would "shake off" fireproofing. I don't have a strong enough argument or research to even address it at the moment.

I do not buy that fireproofed steel "expanded", cracking the footing.


However my inability to figure out what happened in that one building does not leave only the alternative of controlled demolition. So many other aspects of that theory are utterly impossible, illogical, or incorrect. This argument is very difficult. Conspiracists, because of the very nature of the conspiracy, accept un-credible and disingenuous sources... while refusing to accept "credible" sources.

There are also different kinds of conspiracists. There are the tin foil hat wearers, who believe everything is a conspiracy, and every failure in their lives is directly attributable to conspirators. They love Art Bell, and believe in EVERY conspiracy. Conspiracy is their go-to, and, frankly, are typically mentally unstable. Revelation has no effect on these people without a lot of therapy to get there. It is the reason Dr. Phil is a joke. Getting dysfunctional people on stage, and just telling them what is obviously wrong with them does not effect change. There is a reason psychologists/psychiatrists follow the proceedures they do to achieve a "breakthrough". No matter what evidence you provide to them, it will become twisted and unsettling in their heads, which rationalizes their behavior.

They are impossible to argue with.

Then you have rational people, who simply interpret evidence differently than others due to their experiences. Typically they have inquisitive minds and the fortitude to express their opinions. While they may not concede easily, they are logical, and an ultimate decision of fact or fiction is possible through the process of debate. They cannot help the company they keep. I certainly believe I am right, as do they. Anything is possible, and there is so much that is unknown, and may remain unknown forever... all we can do is try to come together on the preponderance of evidence... and we will likely part this discussion unchanged. It is of merit to try, on both sides, to find an ultimate truth.


ATC would have to know. The northeastern seaboard is the most heavily observed airspace in the world. You could not switch planes without SOMEONE catching it.
Military personnel would have to know. Fighter jocks are not marines. Ground crews, readiness crews... these people train for this all day every day. ONE of them would have to say WTF? Norad station workers would have to know. I mean ffs these guys think the reporters knew ahead of time. Firefighters had to know... there is video of dozens of them saying 7 was gonna fall. The dead/not dead passengers can't keep this to themselves, from their families... so you have to assume that they were killed, by someone. NTSB would also have to be in on it, without a single investigator calling foul.


I would also point out that nobody has addressed the buckling of wtc 1 and 2.

Riddle me that.

Just those conspirators alone... do you know what they all have in common?

Their lives are dedicated to saving American lives, and not a single person has ever come forward.


This is why I keep asking the same question that no conspiracist will answer.

How many people minimum would be required to pull this off?
 
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