Obama's Certificate of Live Birth...

[CrackerJax]

One of the vital statistics which keeps being NOT discussed is how long ppl in Canada and GB have to wait for a hospital bed. Serious stuff when you need to be in a hospital bed. There are 1 million Brits who can't get a bed.....imagine being in pain and a hospital bed is on a WAITING list.

It's a horrid health care system...both. The Govt. LOVES it tho...

 

[jrh72582]

Please reply in one of your derailed health care threads.


At first I thought you wanted very much to discuss this... but you keep running away from discussions in each one when it gets hard. When you get the time... Ill be lurking... in all of them.

Are you talking to me? I read some of those links and understand there are problems with Canada's system, but bigger problems exist in our system. Some Canadians may have to wait to get a bed, but I know many people in Canada that have NO complaints with their system. Sure there are problems, but put them on the scale with our own. Our system is ridden with problems. It's the worst health care system I've ever seen, unless you're wealthy. The worst. My own grandmother couldn't afford her damn medicine in the US because of the cost. She died two weeks ago with NO money because $600,000 went towards medication and coverage in the last 10 years of her life. This is sad. Our system is rife with problems. Canada has theirs, but it's more efficient and fair than our system. Walk a mile in another person's shoes my friend.

And I already said that some sacrifices may need to be made for those under the government care, but I would rather sacrifice some of my benefits knowing that everyone gets basic coverage. I have NO problem with that.

However, I don't think our system will come to that. We will have both private and government insurance. If you like what you have, keep it. I have spectacular insurance. When I'm stressed, I can go to the local spa and get a Swedish massage on my HMO's dime. But I would give it up in a second if it meant that more people will be able to afford medicine and care. Some elderly may have less specialization and less coverage, but it's a give and take. People will always die when they get old, but it's not like Canada is just killing of their old. Remember, the elderly live MUCH longer in Canada than in the US. In fact, every advanced country with socialized medicine has a longer life span that us. Hmmmmm..... But I thought socialized healthcare meant murder for the elderly? Wrong. Dead wrong. The whole world has socialized health care and it's about time we catch up. We're a young country and have a lot to learn when it comes to longevity and endurance. Maybe there's a lesson to learn from those countries who've flourished for over 2,000 years now. Maybe.

 

[purplekitty7772008]

So you won't admit that you're wrong about Canada's system? Typical.

And it's not an insult to call someone young and naive. You are young and the naivete is quite clear with you. Research your post history. How many times have you started a thread about your poor life or your 'hot' body? I mean, come on.... We are adults here.

I don't have to admit I'm wrong because I'm not.
Everyone here is giving all the evidence you need on a silver

platter.

I may rant, but never have I said "my poor life". lol.
Yeah, I get pissed and rant, so what?

And I never remember starting a thread about my hot body.


If you can give me a link to one of MY threads about me
talking about my body, I promise to pay you.



You're an..... no wait. I'm above you. I don't call names.

Quit spewing lies. I never started any thread about me hating
my life or about my body.

 

[CrackerJax]

Kitty is dead on there.

There just is no argument that the govt. health plan is better than the private one in place now. Obama has made it clear he intends to squeeze everyone out, although it may take 10,15,20 years. It will be done...the poor will be screwed as well as the middle class. Guys like me won't be affected, but the rest? They are going to get screwed and BIG. It's all in the numbers, and the numbers add up to a BIG failure. Let's not EXPERIMENT with the literal health of the nation. Let's not BURDEN our society with another MOUNTAIN of TAXES.

Here comes the VAT tax by the way..... choo choo.... bend over.

 

[purplekitty7772008]

Kitty is dead on there.

There just is no argument that the govt. health plan is better than the private one in place now. Obama has made it clear he intends to squeeze everyone out, although it may take 10,15,20 years. It will be done...the poor will be screwed as well as the middle class. Guys like me won't be affected, but the rest? They are going to get screwed and BIG. It's all in the numbers, and the numbers add up to a BIG failure. Let's not EXPERIMENT with the literal health of the nation. Let's not BURDEN our society with another MOUNTAIN of TAXES.

Here comes the VAT tax by the way..... choo choo.... bend over.

haha. thank you cj.

I've read about the VAT too...

 

[CrackerJax]

yes, now what about those PROMISES of no more taxes on the poor and middle class? Ooops.... bend over.

 

[jrh72582]

yes, now what about those PROMISES of no more taxes on the poor and middle class? Ooops.... bend over.

They're not being taxed..................yet. If I were president, I would simply cut the military budget in half. That would free up so much money we wouldn't know what to do with it (oh wait, nevermind).

 

[ViRedd]

They're not being taxed..................yet. If I were president, I would simply cut the military budget in half. That would free up so much money we wouldn't know what to do with it (oh wait, nevermind).

Well, you might consider joining the Libertarian Party. Part of their platform a few years ago, when Harry Browne was their presidental candidate, was to turn the Pentagon into a Triangle.

http://www.harrybrowne.org/

Vi

 

[mexiblunt]

One of the vital statistics which keeps being NOT discussed is how long ppl in Canada and GB have to wait for a hospital bed. Serious stuff when you need to be in a hospital bed. There are 1 million Brits who can't get a bed.....imagine being in pain and a hospital bed is on a WAITING list.

It's a horrid health care system...both. The Govt. LOVES it tho...

Canadian here. Last friday morning I woke up vomiting harcore. I had 2 rye and coke's the night before I usually don't drink much anymore, thought it was that no biggie throw up a little go back to sleep. No go I was vomiting for 7 hours from 5 in the morning till noon when nothing worked I went to the hospital.
I was doubled over in pain all day, I could not lie down for more than a min stand up min walk around min back down min. They put me in a room instantly and got an IV going. over the next 4 hours they tried a few different shots in my IV to figure out what was wrong. Nothing... so at 4 I got a shot of morphine and finally fell asleep. They kept me over night and fed me breakfast to boot. No wait!!! I'm very gratefull for our healthcare system cause I don't know what I would have done in that kind of pain for another 6 hours. Gastrol intestinal infection or food poisoning still don't know, I'm feeling good tho.

 

[jrh72582]

Canadian here. Last friday morning I woke up vomiting harcore. I had 2 rye and coke's the night before I usually don't drink much anymore, thought it was that no biggie throw up a little go back to sleep. No go I was vomiting for 7 hours from 5 in the morning till noon when nothing worked I went to the hospital.
I was doubled over in pain all day, I could not lie down for more than a min stand up min walk around min back down min. They put me in a room instantly and got an IV going. over the next 4 hours they tried a few different shots in my IV to figure out what was wrong. Nothing... so at 4 I got a shot of morphine and finally fell asleep. They kept me over night and fed me breakfast to boot. No wait!!! I'm very gratefull for our healthcare system cause I don't know what I would have done in that kind of pain for another 6 hours. Gastrol intestinal infection or food poisoning still don't know, I'm feeling good tho.

I have many Canadian friends and they all agree with your sentiment. They all LOVE the healthcare system there. But you won't convince the people on this forum. They think that the system sucks and need it to suck so their arguments can have a grounding (albeit a shaky one). You could literally line up every Canadian and poll them on their feelings, get an overwhelming positive response, and the dogmatists on this forum will not be convinced. They'll scream conspiracy or something... It's sad. I cannot understand why they're so against universal healthcare, especially when they'll see NO change in their daily lives.

 

[purplekitty7772008]

I have many Canadian friends and they all agree with your sentiment. They all LOVE the healthcare system there. But you won't convince the people on this forum. They think that the system sucks and need it to suck so their arguments can have a grounding (albeit a shaky one). You could literally line up every Canadian and poll them on their feelings, get an overwhelming positive response, and the dogmatists on this forum will not be convinced. They'll scream conspiracy or something... It's sad. I cannot understand why they're so against universal healthcare, especially when they'll see NO change in their daily lives.

So I guess retiredtoker was lying in his thread?

No change huh?

Change is more taxes, being forced to accept something we don't
want...etc etc...

being forced to accept national id "healthcare" cards....

but "no change".



if there wouldn't be any change in any of our lives then what would
be the point of pushing the health care bill?

 

[Rob Roy]

Are you talking to me? I read some of those links and understand there are problems with Canada's system, but bigger problems exist in our system. Some Canadians may have to wait to get a bed, but I know many people in Canada that have NO complaints with their system. Sure there are problems, but put them on the scale with our own. Our system is ridden with problems. It's the worst health care system I've ever seen, unless you're wealthy. The worst. My own grandmother couldn't afford her damn medicine in the US because of the cost. She died two weeks ago with NO money because $600,000 went towards medication and coverage in the last 10 years of her life. This is sad. Our system is rife with problems. Canada has theirs, but it's more efficient and fair than our system. Walk a mile in another person's shoes my friend.

And I already said that some sacrifices may need to be made for those under the government care, but I would rather sacrifice some of my benefits knowing that everyone gets basic coverage. I have NO problem with that.

However, I don't think our system will come to that. We will have both private and government insurance. If you like what you have, keep it. I have spectacular insurance. When I'm stressed, I can go to the local spa and get a Swedish massage on my HMO's dime. But I would give it up in a second if it meant that more people will be able to afford medicine and care. Some elderly may have less specialization and less coverage, but it's a give and take. People will always die when they get old, but it's not like Canada is just killing of their old. Remember, the elderly live MUCH longer in Canada than in the US. In fact, every advanced country with socialized medicine has a longer life span that us. Hmmmmm..... But I thought socialized healthcare meant murder for the elderly? Wrong. Dead wrong. The whole world has socialized health care and it's about time we catch up. We're a young country and have a lot to learn when it comes to longevity and endurance. Maybe there's a lesson to learn from those countries who've flourished for over 2,000 years now. Maybe.

Canadians average life span is 81, USA 77.5.

The whole world has socialized healthcare and it's about time we caught up? Yes we should trade in our remaining freedom to be like the rest of the world - subjects.
It's for our own good and government always knows best.

Which countries have flourished for 2,000 years?

 

[hom36rown]

Canadians average life span is 81, USA 77.5.

That's a pretty considerable difference.

 

[jrh72582]

Canadians average life span is 81, USA 77.5.

The whole world has socialized healthcare and it's about time we caught up? Yes we should trade in our remaining freedom to be like the rest of the world - subjects.
It's for our own good and government always knows best.

Which countries have flourished for 2,000 years?

Is this a serious question?

 

[jrh72582]

So I guess retiredtoker was lying in his thread?

No change huh?

Change is more taxes, being forced to accept something we don't
want...etc etc...

being forced to accept national id "healthcare" cards....

but "no change".



if there wouldn't be any change in any of our lives then what would
be the point of pushing the health care bill?

Oh you're just mad because you heard a Canadian mention his admiration of the system. I pointed out this naivete to you and knowing it's true, you're reacting in anger rather than submitting to the truth. But keep going. Analyzing the diction, pathos, and purpose in your responses is quite amusing - textbook stuff.

 

[CrackerJax]

There are 800,000 canadians who can't get a hospital bed tonite. The saving grace of the Canadian health Care system is that the country sits along side it is the United States, so Canadians can get quality care when it matters. Where will you go? Mexico? Jamaica?


I see over the wire that more military men are suing in court for treason against Obama..... not answering the last case has started a snowball effect, as I said it would. Where will this lead I wonder? There is a storm brewing in the military ranks.

 

[purplekitty7772008]

Oh you're just mad because you heard a Canadian mention his admiration of the system. I pointed out this naivete to you and knowing it's true, you're reacting in anger rather than submitting to the truth. But keep going. Analyzing the diction, pathos, and purpose in your responses is quite amusing - textbook stuff.

Did I even mention that dude?

Not that I can recall. So how did you come to the conclusion I am
mad about what he said?

I displayed no anger so I have a hard time understanding how
I am reacting to something I didn't experience while reading this thread.



jrh, why do you make things up that aren't true?

this is the third time you've done this.

Are you some kind of habitual liar or something?

I really don't understand why you say things that
are untrue.

 

[Rob Roy]

Is this a serious question?

Sure. It's a serious question.

Oh by the way do you agree with imprisoning people if they refuse to participate in a mandatory health care plan?

 

[hanimmal]

Wow.

Couple things that I have noticed:

bush managed to pass law where is is possible for federal charges to be brought against anyone refusing a vaccine.

vague article about military presence in the event of an outbreak:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/28/mil...flu/index.html

regarding mandatory vaccines:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/04...y4975598.shtml

This was all spun off of the patriot act, that was placed in incase of a bio attack. So if a group of people get some new strain of say black plague they can't say no to getting a vaccine since it can spread to others.

People are drawing the 'conclusion' that the H1N1 vaccine is going to be forced on others from this. They did not have something that is not as powerful as the regular flu in mind when writting that I am willing to bet.

So long as we are being honest, you are a walking contradiction. You defend all things republican, without objectivity. You will embrace any conspiracy involving the left without "looking at both sides, and coming down on the side of simplicity". You accuse people of your own faults, and I don't think it is projection, I think it comes from a position of understanding. I think you are fully aware that what I am saying is true, and you will argue it on pretense only.

The mistrust anyone in government is a very savvy move by the people that make bank off of the conspiracy theories. Since there is not as many of you all out there they can keep their customer base by just changing the people who come into power as "them".

Think 1984. Who really was the one that benefitted from the "us and them" story line? The governemnt lapdogs? The people that were driven like sheep? Them, the people that actually drove everything and were able to live off of the society in enjoyment? No it was the flipping authur who made the whole story up! There was no us and them, he made it all up just like the people today do.

Obama BC is not a conspiracy based upon a false premise... there's a difference. This charade can be cleared up very quickly, yet Obama chooses not to.

Lets say that he doesn't posses the origional BC, but there was once one. What could he do to prove it to you?

fair enough...and you're just an angry bitter internet yapper who feels the need to put people down online and insult their intelligence as a replacement for presenting a valid point with evidence...seemingly to compensate for whatever real-time personal shortcomings you have and need to accept.

You ignore evidence all the time when it doesn't work with your theories. I constantly feel like you ignore me!

Purplekitty,

They are pushing the health care bill to give us
the mandatory vaccines!!!

The mandatory vaccines thing is a joke. Unless you contract the bubonic plague from a terrorist attack I think that your safe to not be forced anything.

If they control the health care industry, and can
govern what care we receive, who we receive it
by, and when.......

There is already laws that are in place, they are just trying to change the regulations to ensure that americans will be screwed as little as possible. There is not enough resources to try to force everyone into some kind of schedual to recieve care, so that won't happen.

then everything falls into place. They will make it
mandatory for anyone under the forced gov't health care

to accept a national ID card in the name of health insurance
that will have the microchip that will control us, which they will

then reveal that the national ID card will become the new
"tracker" by which they can get any and all information

You already have a social security card. Do you carry it all the time? If you have health insurance you have a card too.

The new "national" health care
system will make it mandatory that all of your information

is sent into their federal data base, along with all of your
registered gun information!!!!

This is a new conspiracy theory to me, I think that you are mixing up a few different bills. The "mandatory info" theory was a lie about the cash for clunkers information of the person going to the governemnt, when it was actually the dealerships that was used to track the program.

So they say if I don't want to buy their gov't mandated health
care I will be taxed 2% of my weekly income for something I don't

even reap the shitty benefits of?

If you have health insurance you will see no changes period. If you are one of the 1/6th of america that does not have it you will have the choice to get some through work or a company, get a natinal plan, or if you refuse all that then you will be charged the 2.5% tax. Because you are going to eventually be a drain on society, and I will have to pay for the stupidity of people thinking that they are industructable.

Look how well the health care system in Canada is?

They have nationalized health care...

how is that going for them?

Get over Canada. We are not doing their system. Look into Frances care, that is what this is going to be similar to. They have the #1 care in the world, England is #18, canada is #30, we are #37. We are not looking to improve a few places.

Why do you insist on the government taking care of us?
Last time I checked, most of us are capable of taking
care of ourselves, unless you're physically disabled.

The people that don't have health insurance get into a car accident and are unconcious, we cannot just say oh well and walk away from them, we have to take care of them. And that money gets spread around and we all have to pay for it anyway.

And I will keep my health care. Because why? I can choose
my own doctors, I have a say in what type of care I want,
and I don't want "big brother" telling me who my doctors are, &
when I can receive my health care, and if I'm approved for
it. Didn't you read Keenly's thread about it?

Keenly is not a great source of information for a unbiased opinion. Usually it is based off of a websites viewpoints that is anti-Obama. If you have insurance already you will see no change period. You are grandfathered in. Now if the insurance comapnay changes their plans then they already could have and usually do.

And you want taxes to go up?
Even after Obama promised there would be no
new tax increases, but rather tax cuts?

And you want taxes to go up?
Even after Obama promised there would be no
new tax increases, but rather tax cuts?

They government will be taking taxes from me for other's
health care that I won't even want or receive.

No it won't you only pay if you have no insurance. Hence if you didn't you are just being forced to pay for your insurance if you can afford it. If you can't then there are plans to help you to.

From CMS at FreeRepublic.com:

You go on to cut and paste it. But that is a biased website that is bastardizing the facts to their viewers to rile them up so they keep comiong back. Look at those pages yourself and don't take everything third hand.



Go read the Obama looking good threads 86ish through w/e. We went over the healthcare a lot there, although most the pov's were already slanted and noone really wants to see the facts. Because false truths are way off are so much sexier.

 

[jrh72582]

Wow.

Couple things that I have noticed:


This was all spun off of the patriot act, that was placed in incase of a bio attack. So if a group of people get some new strain of say black plague they can't say no to getting a vaccine since it can spread to others.

People are drawing the 'conclusion' that the H1N1 vaccine is going to be forced on others from this. They did not have something that is not as powerful as the regular flu in mind when writting that I am willing to bet.



The mistrust anyone in government is a very savvy move by the people that make bank off of the conspiracy theories. Since there is not as many of you all out there they can keep their customer base by just changing the people who come into power as "them".

Think 1984. Who really was the one that benefitted from the "us and them" story line? The governemnt lapdogs? The people that were driven like sheep? Them, the people that actually drove everything and were able to live off of the society in enjoyment? No it was the flipping authur who made the whole story up! There was no us and them, he made it all up just like the people today do.



Lets say that he doesn't posses the origional BC, but there was once one. What could he do to prove it to you?



You ignore evidence all the time when it doesn't work with your theories. I constantly feel like you ignore me!

Purplekitty,



The mandatory vaccines thing is a joke. Unless you contract the bubonic plague from a terrorist attack I think that your safe to not be forced anything.



There is already laws that are in place, they are just trying to change the regulations to ensure that americans will be screwed as little as possible. There is not enough resources to try to force everyone into some kind of schedual to recieve care, so that won't happen.



You already have a social security card. Do you carry it all the time? If you have health insurance you have a card too.



This is a new conspiracy theory to me, I think that you are mixing up a few different bills. The "mandatory info" theory was a lie about the cash for clunkers information of the person going to the governemnt, when it was actually the dealerships that was used to track the program.



If you have health insurance you will see no changes period. If you are one of the 1/6th of america that does not have it you will have the choice to get some through work or a company, get a natinal plan, or if you refuse all that then you will be charged the 2.5% tax. Because you are going to eventually be a drain on society, and I will have to pay for the stupidity of people thinking that they are industructable.



Get over Canada. We are not doing their system. Look into Frances care, that is what this is going to be similar to. They have the #1 care in the world, England is #18, canada is #30, we are #37. We are not looking to improve a few places.



The people that don't have health insurance get into a car accident and are unconcious, we cannot just say oh well and walk away from them, we have to take care of them. And that money gets spread around and we all have to pay for it anyway.



Keenly is not a great source of information for a unbiased opinion. Usually it is based off of a websites viewpoints that is anti-Obama. If you have insurance already you will see no change period. You are grandfathered in. Now if the insurance comapnay changes their plans then they already could have and usually do.





No it won't you only pay if you have no insurance. Hence if you didn't you are just being forced to pay for your insurance if you can afford it. If you can't then there are plans to help you to.



You go on to cut and paste it. But that is a biased website that is bastardizing the facts to their viewers to rile them up so they keep comiong back. Look at those pages yourself and don't take everything third hand.



Go read the Obama looking good threads 86ish through w/e. We went over the healthcare a lot there, although most the pov's were already slanted and noone really wants to see the facts. Because false truths are way off are so much sexier.

Great post. You provide ample evidence to counter all of Kitty's and Cracker's claims. However, they will ignore you because you're right and they have no way of retorting. I tried telling Kitty she will see NO change, but of course, they never believe the facts.

Anyway, well done! I always enjoy your posts. You are the mitigated voice of reason. +rep.