Dmt?

[shepj]

Everynight Ma'Fucker....No I have not intentionally ingested DMT.

Fair enough. When someone is on a psychedelic like that, even though they may fully understand the concept of what is going on in their brain, it is theoritical at that point... it makes sense in words, in theory. But putting yourself through that experience deteriorates the actual reasoning behind it and makes it appear as something different.

^ a little confusing, but that's about the best way I can put it.

 

[Anonymiss1969]

Fair enough. When someone is on a psychedelic like that, even though they may fully understand the concept of what is going on in their brain, it is theoritical at that point... it makes sense in words, in theory. But putting yourself through that experience deteriorates the actual reasoning behind it and makes it appear as something different.

^ a little confusing, but that's about the best way I can put it.

I've done tons of consciousness altering drugs and the only thing I've found is I feel really stupid when I think back on the ideas about reality that I was pitching to people because they tend to be nonsense.

 

[williamwilde13]

Ive thought about the effects of drugs for a little while now, and i must say its almost impossible to say anything with complete confidence... I mean yeah, the drugs we take into out bodies react and produce the high or effect that we experience, but that evidence by itself is not conclusive evidence at all of there being no ghosts, afterlife, spiritual plane.. etc.

Is it not possible that taking in substances is our way of chemically aligning ourselves to receive certain information?.

I think that consciousness is like a flashlight, what you see depends on where you point it. taking drugs is like messing around with the filters of the light, what you see is just as real, your just changing the lighting.

You said it yourself, since birth we are load ourselves up with a chemical cocktail of whatever we injest (food, drink...) which is a big part of how we experience reality, certain things have more of an effect than others, like drugs. To deny someone of their perceptions and view on the influence of drugs is like saying there are certain people with a more "correct" view of reality.

All im saying is that life is so strange, and current existence is hard enough to understand, nevermind about what happens after. Problem is We don't really have any absolute truths to test any theories against to surely prove anything! Which means King Kong doesnt have shit on anybody...

But what do I know,
Peace

 

[Mr.KushMan]

But just because you feel it is happening a particular way doesn't mean it is. Listen I have done LSD, psilocin, morphine, THC, DXM, MDMA, and a 2C that was sold as MDMA. Anyway it is obvious that you would not be able to follow the mechanism of action in you body, none of these drugs have an affinity to bind to only one receptor, they have several actions and effects that a single molecule can carry out. On top of that say 100 mcg of LSD is in question, LSD being a substance with a very high molecular weight and very small dose range, well 100 mcg of LSD has about 150 quadrillion molecules. Are you telling me that you would be able to monitor the effects of 150 quadrillion individual pieces that your brain and body would interpret as information. I am sure that the science seems insignificant in comparison to the effects of the drug in question, but you have to admit that a simple chemical that has been developed over several million years in a plant is able to effect a humans brain in such a unbelievable degree. Personally when I think, man look at what I am a part of, the world being inhabited by an uncountable amount of living creatures, enzymes, plants, animals, bacteria, ect. and then the vast size of the universe with every planet that has life on it, I think man did I luck out or what being one of the 6 billion things in known existence that can actually think, can prepare for death. When I am on these drugs I can understand what the theoretical discussion is trying to get at. I can't feel the drug coursing through my veins, or are being received by a receptor, but I can connect and recognize the emotions and feeling these drugs are showing me, as well as the awe inspiring visualization. But that doesn't change the fact that just because a billion people believe something with absolute certainty, doesn't mean it can't be wrong.


Peace

 

[Mr.KushMan]

The reason people have the ability to reason and think is so they do not have to take things on faith. There is science that has proven so much, yet there are people who still cling to the beliefs of the shamans from ancient Maya. Science that conclusive facts that really can't be over turned by people saying no your wrong. And the reason science is so widely accepted is because it can be reproduced, just like the drugs, which are science. Where as faith cannot. It happens once, and if you missed it then to bad. Faith is like seeing Jesus face in the side of a hill while the wind is blowing the grass, its not that jesus wanted you to see his face, its because the wind was blowing in a particular way. Or seeing a cloud with two holes with light shinging through thinking it is god looking at you. It is just narcissistic to think that we are so important that, this god figure would bless our bodies with a soul, or a special thing that can think and be aware forever rather than animals who will just die.

Peace

 

[williamwilde13]

Im not implying that science is not credible, nor am I an advocate for religeous "faith." But saying that a "spiritual realm" does not exist is ignorant. By spiritual realm i mean "human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things."

No one has ever been able to effectively explain how exactly we exist, so as long as were talking about things like experience and perception relating to spirituality its futile to come up with conclusive facts like "there is no afterlife/spirituality."

You said yourself, being "able to monitor the effects of 150 quadrillion individual pieces that your brain and body would interpret as information" is not doable. Science has not come to any conclusions as to how were alive or how reality works, which means the true answer is anybody's guess.

Science's explaination for whats going on is: "there was nothing, then some gasses mixed together, the shit blew up and now were here..."

I dunno but to me seems like theres a lot of pages missing from that book.

Anyone here satisfied with that being the final answer about how and why were here?

 

[shepj]

Mr.KushMan, williamwilde13.. you both make good, and what I consider, valid points.

I am kind of religious, more spiritual than religious really.. like I do not follow one religion per se, but I also analyze the science behind things. I think there is a balance of both, and until one proves the other wrong (Faith vs Science), that there will always be a balance of both in my mind.

 

[williamwilde13]

Shepj's got the idea....

Everything in moderation..... including excess.

 

[shepj]

Shepj's got the idea....

Everything in moderation..... including excess.

I like that..

excess in moderation.

 

[Mr.KushMan]

I suppose your right, correlation does not mean conclusion.

Peace

EDIT: One thing that modern Science and modern Physics have proven with correlation is that what we see is not what is. It is simply your brains best guess map of the surroundings. Because your eye sees something then sends a signal to your brain which 'we' then see. But this signal is simply an electric shock, so there is no way of actually seeing what it is that your eye is interpreting for your brain. But then again, correlation is not conclusion.

 

[doobnVA]

At one time, everything we know and accept as "fact" were considered by most to be ridiculous notions. Remember when humanity KNEW the world was flat and laughed at the notion that it might actually be round?

Now, of course, things of a spiritual nature aren't so easily proven. They aren't easily disproven, either. Believing in these things doesn't make me feel less insignificant in the world. In fact, it's just the opposite. I know there will be no "afterlife", no reincarnation or any of that for me when my body dies. My consciousness will "live" on, that I'm sure of, but there won't be any pearly gates or fiery pits of hell or restless spirit roaming the earth. For some, but not for me. Not this time.

 

[Mr.KushMan]

No, the statement your arguing is arguing against your points. People have always had a belief system which includes them as other worldly beings. Crafted in the image of a God, who lets you into a "paradise" once you die. We have considered our selves in this position for many hundreds of years, passing the religion, spirituality down through generations, being slightly changed and tweaked. People believed in a God figure, which now is thought to be a silly notion, but people still believe in a spirit of some sort nonetheless. But the fact is that we need to see ourselves as part of the earth rather than other-worldly, plane of existence, spiritual beings, which is the reason our planet is so fucking messed up. We are nature, our cities, our planes, our cars, boats, even space ships. But our unwillingness to understand this causes us to take one step forward and two steps back. People retaining the thought systems of the last 4000 years will not moves us into the future, in fact much the opposite, if we don't destroy the planet first.

The only paradise humans have is the last seconds before death. Your body as a last action of defense against death starts to fire all of its functions at once, massive quantities of every psychedelic compounds that your brain knows how to produce get pumped into your brain, and blood stream, then the four? seconds you are conscious of your death happening, you are experiencing everything you have ever thought, felt, done, and seen at the exact same time. Now this is a very powerful experience and may in fact be a spiritual experience, but the fact that these ideas of spirits have been written about time and time again and science seemingly tends to line up overwhelmingly on one side of the argument. Science has not found any evidence of a spirit realm, world, plane of existence, so everything that is said in these writings must be taken on faith. And faith is merely the inability to rationalize what has been projected. That being said, how could there possibly be any science in spirituality?

Peace

 

[doobnVA]

No, the statement your arguing is arguing against your points. People have always had a belief system which includes them as other worldly beings. Crafted in the image of a God, who lets you into a "paradise" once you die. We have considered our selves in this position for many hundreds of years, passing the religion, spirituality down through generations, being slightly changed and tweaked. People believed in a God figure, which now is thought to be a silly notion, but people still believe in a spirit of some sort nonetheless. But the fact is that we need to see ourselves as part of the earth rather than other-worldly, plane of existence, spiritual beings, which is the reason our planet is so fucking messed up. We are nature, our cities, our planes, our cars, boats, even space ships. But our unwillingness to understand this causes us to take one step forward and two steps back. People retaining the thought systems of the last 4000 years will not moves us into the future, in fact much the opposite, if we don't destroy the planet first.

The only paradise humans have is the last seconds before death. Your body as a last action of defense against death starts to fire all of its functions at once, massive quantities of every psychedelic compounds that your brain knows how to produce get pumped into your brain, and blood stream, then the four? seconds you are conscious of your death happening, you are experiencing everything you have ever thought, felt, done, and seen at the exact same time. Now this is a very powerful experience and may in fact be a spiritual experience, but the fact that these ideas of spirits have been written about time and time again and science seemingly tends to line up overwhelmingly on one side of the argument. Science has not found any evidence of a spirit realm, world, plane of existence, so everything that is said in these writings must be taken on faith. And faith is merely the inability to rationalize what has been projected. That being said, how could there possibly be any science in spirituality?

Peace

there is no science in spirituality. I'm not saying that because the notion of "other realms" of existence is thousands of years old that it must be true. I'm saying that just because it's a ridiculous notion (to some) doesn't make it automatically false. Hence the example of the earth being round. Back then, people thought it was ridiculous that the earth could be round. They laughed at the idea, but it turned out to be true.

Spirituality isn't as easy to prove as the shape of the earth. In fact, it's about as impossible to prove as the existence of "god". That doesn't mean we should automatically discount both ideas as nonsense.

Yes, both notions require a certain amount of faith. I'm not sure about "god", but I'm sure there are other "worlds" than this one, and I'm sure that (for some people) dreams are much more than a chemical reaction in some grey matter.

I'm also pretty sure that the reason OUR world is in the sate it's in is because we've LET GO of those beliefs we used to hold so tightly. Life isn't about what it *should* be about. Instead, we focus on how much utterly useless plastic crap we can acquire, and how many pictures of former presidents we can collect and store away.

And for what?

 

[Anonymiss1969]

there is no science in spirituality. I'm not saying that because the notion of "other realms" of existence is thousands of years old that it must be true. I'm saying that just because it's a ridiculous notion (to some) doesn't make it automatically false. Hence the example of the earth being round. Back then, people thought it was ridiculous that the earth could be round. They laughed at the idea, but it turned out to be true.

Spirituality isn't as easy to prove as the shape of the earth. In fact, it's about as impossible to prove as the existence of "god". That doesn't mean we should automatically discount both ideas as nonsense.

Yes, both notions require a certain amount of faith. I'm not sure about "god", but I'm sure there are other "worlds" than this one, and I'm sure that (for some people) dreams are much more than a chemical reaction in some grey matter.

I'm also pretty sure that the reason OUR world is in the sate it's in is because we've LET GO of those beliefs we used to hold so tightly. Life isn't about what it *should* be about. Instead, we focus on how much utterly useless plastic crap we can acquire, and how many pictures of former presidents we can collect and store away.

And for what?

Your argument doesn't make sense. No one believed the earth was round because it was believed to be flat at the time, correct? But then scientific evidence disproved the flat notion and we learned the earth is round.

Spirituality seems to be the first theory of human consciousness, but has no proof whatsoever. There are studies on consciousness, however, which give explanations for why we are the way we are. You aren't listening to reason or scientific proof, just like the people who didn't listen to the first person who claimed that the earth was round.

You are claiming to have a spirit because you have no other way of explaining consciousness, which I find annoyingly lazy.

Edit: Also, I don't focus on "how much utterly useless crap" I can acquire. My lifes about making myself better than I was yesterday, and helping others do the same, without the idea of spirituality. I like to make my brain, as well as other's, produce as much seretonin as possible.

 

[Mr.KushMan]

My whole bit is, that if you have a good life, and feel good about it, then when the end of your life comes and it flashes before your eyes, thats "heaven". But if your a fucking murder-rapist-necrophelica?? that was always negative and depressed, thats fucking "hell". Because we all know that time dilation is fairly severe on heavy hallucenigens and your brain is producing many psychedelic endogenous tryptamines, opiates, cannbinoids, phenethylamines, adrenals, and anything else into you at once in as mass quantities as it can, would be quite a moment of shear pleasure, or terror. Anyway........

Peace

EDIT: Thanks a ton Anonymiss for that killer breakdown, could not have put it better myself.

EDIT:EDIT: Haha, unfortunately in this day and age I am sure there are many people that have not been aware of there death arising, like in a car accident, or getting killed in silence. But there was a stand-up with Joe Rogan that I saw called like Flying Butt Monkeys in Space, but he had one bit about kids that were throwing pine cones at a lion through steel bars at a zoo. Well the lion eventually got a little worked up and jumped over the cage wall, and onto the ground. Well two of the kids ran a ways away, but one got charged by the lion. And Rogan was like when that kid saw that lion running at him, his brain just started to do everything it knew how, then just as that lion jumped into the air for the takedown, it burst into a kaleidoscope of petals that float to the ground.

 

[shepj]

Mr.KushMan I like you . We may not see eye to eye science vs spirituality, but I like the way you present your current statements.

 

[SuperChronix]

I would like to post my first reply on this forum to you. I also have a friend that has tried DMT, he said that it was incredibly intense. He has tried the common "drugs", and this is where I stand as well, ie; LSD, Mushrooms (psilocybin),Extacy, PCP, Opium, hash, and the more obvious, sweet sweet Marry Jane! (oh how I love you Marry Jane...)

Okay, with that said. He told me it was very vivid, dreamlike, and it felt as if there were no time. He also said that, it lasted 10 mins, then was 100% sober right after the "trip"(If you can call it that).

I would like to try it, but, unfortunately you would have to know a scientist or some strange, shady person in order to obtain the substance.

My recommendation is as follows.......

Heed the words of a very subtlety intelligent man. You may laugh, but Joe Rogan is a very well rounded, grounded and incredibly intelligent person. Despite his being on a reality TV show, he does know quite a bit about this subject.

Lets begin....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8

If that doesn't blow your mind, then I wouldn't try DMT, it wouldn't be for your type of personality. May result in a bad trip, or some sort of nightmare scenario.

Some random facts.....

Everyone, EVERYONE, releases DMT through their Pineal gland inside the middle of the brain. When we enter REM stages of sleep, as well as near death or death experiences, a high dose of this DMT AKA "spirit molecule" is released naturally.

Now you probably wouldn't be aware of this but, grass, yes common grass you mow with, contains a low potency of this DMT and can be extracted and smoked or other mediums can be used as well, such as drinking a concoction, or the least favorite, anal depository, gross.....

On that note, I'll leave you with some quick advice. I would say that if you are a lucid dreamer like myself, you may have an easier time coping with the sudden trip/soberness factor and may have a very enlightening experience like our friend Joe.

Happy Tripping!

 

[Mr.KushMan]

Shepj, your good people and I got respect for you as well.

Peace

 

[303]

Its easy to sort out non-important people. Some are gifted, some are not. To each there own opinion. I believe, and know the truth. Look up a author by the name of Jed Mckenna. Mr Kush anyone can copy and paste, you are unimportant and blind.

 

[303]

Some rather interesting quotes....
"Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening,
terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in
this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities, the political, the
religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by
giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their
view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and
learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open-mindedness;
chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself.
Think for yourself.
Question authority."
-Timothy Leary

"I think psychedelics play a major part in what we do, but having said that, I feel that if somebody's going to experiment with those things they really need to educate themselves about them. People just taking the chemicals and diving in without having any kind of preparation about what they're about to experience tend to have no frame of reference, so they're missing everything flying by and all these new perspectives. It's just a waste. They reach a little bit of spiritual enlightenment, but they end up going, 'Well, now I need that drug to get back there again.' The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug."
-Maynard James Keenan
"So crucify the ego, before it's far too late
To leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical,
And you will come to find that we are all one mind
Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable.
Just let the light touch you
And let the words spill through
And let them pass right through
Bringing out our hope and reason ...
before we pine away."
-Maynard James Keenan

"Seems like I've been here before.
Seems so familiar.
Seems like I'm slipping
into a dream within a dream."
-Maynard James Keenan