Is anyone using a PLC, Programmable Logic Controller for a grow room controll??????

[NOWitall]

im looking at some Allen Bradley 6 Chanel pico controller.

ive been goofing on their programming software, and with a 6 chanel model you can maintain a veg room, keep 2 rooms flowering(if 2 rooms alternate 12-12 cycles theres never a power spike), a thermostat controlled fan AND heater, with a chanel left over for an aeroponic fogger/mister that can now be timed in cycles down to 1ms on 5ms off (i know thats not a usefull timing cycle i was just illustrating.

ANYHOOOO, anybody usin em thinkin of it advice yadda yadda?

 

[NOWitall]

if you get one with analog inputs you can even tie in thermos and humidistats, could even use it as a nutrient monitor/ amintainer.

ANYBODY even have the slightest idear what im babbling bout?

 

[BigBudBalls]

Yep. Been there, done that. Moving away from it only because I travel and like to check and adjust things from the road. (PLCs aren't very GUI/Web friendly)
Had/has touchscreen controller, CO2 monitoring and control, lighting, watering, etc.

Have a bunch of experience with AB and Automation Direct PLCs.

 

[NOWitall]

sweet what do recomend that can be web monitored?? what kind of programming interface? similiar to picospft?

hopefully nothing html or c+ based.

also something with 6-8 outputs, thats not insanely expensive. is what im lookin for. ive seen the allen bradley pico's on ebay for 80-120++. and thats about all i can spend on that. i could probly squeeze by with 4 chanels if it makes it cheaper.

 

[BigBudBalls]

sweet what do recomend that can be web monitored?? what kind of programming interface? similiar to picospft?

hopefully nothing html or c+ based.

also something with 6-8 outputs, thats not insanely expensive. is what im lookin for. ive seen the allen bradley pico's on ebay for 80-120++. and thats about all i can spend on that. i could probly squeeze by with 4 chanels if it makes it cheaper.

Like I said, I'm moving away from PLC control (only because of the remote monitoring) For AB, RSView is the ticket. Or a SLC 5/05 (or other Ethernet enabled CPU) with later firmware that supports a web interface with the data tables. (and even that is a kludge)

RS View is rather pricey and you buy at a Tag level (depending on how many tags you need to use remotely or on a PC/HMI-IF)

I went the route of Insteon and X-10. Takes care of the the room plus the entire house automation. No running wires, just plugging in modules or replacing outlets/switches (for a more professional look)

I run a Mac and Indigo is probably better then any windows equivalent (far from the norm, typically the Mac/Linux version lag behind) Anything Indigo doesn't do, an applescript can handle. And adds system level integration; like into Excel or any other applescript supported program.
(working on a ModBus driver)


ponder AutmationDirect PLCs. about 1/2 the price of AB and just as good ($99 to start but software is less desirable, but fine for these smaller projects)

 

[s0high]

cheapest and most versatile company I have found is http://www.phidgets.com/ . Now if you dont have any idea how to program.... well.... A company called national instruments has some nice equipment.

However at phidgets you can get a digital/analog usb interface, ph, tds, temp, humidity, motor controls, lighting controls. ect... Have fun!

 

[BigBudBalls]

cheapest and most versatile company I have found is http://www.phidgets.com/ . Now if you dont have any idea how to program.... well.... A company called national instruments has some nice equipment.

However at phidgets you can get a digital/analog usb interface, ph, tds, temp, humidity, motor controls, lighting controls. ect... Have fun!

Phidgets aren't PLCs. I've looked at them, but felt they were a stepping stone. A bit overpriced, under-tech'd. There are a TON of phidget type devices out there, adn all seem to fit into the same group.

But on that vein, I'd go with a XBee, gives wireless capabilities out the box, just need to add in a little glue logic.

 

[s0high]

Ya, the only reason I mention phidget is because it is a "high-level" interface in my opinion. For instance, you get the usb digital/analog interface hook it up, screw down or plug in the ph, temp, humidity ect... and they have pre-built programs developed in C#, VB, c++ so you can use them out of the box or write your own logic. I would say true PLC's only belong in the manufacture environment as they are 2000% more failsafe than these phidget, xbee ect gadgets. However building something to simply read a ph meter with a PLC is just way overboard.

BigBudBalls, what is your experience with the wireless stuff. I would be very concerned with for some reason the wireless signal getting some interference and fuckin with shit. Shrug, probably runs in the 5.8ghz so when a phone rings you light controls turn you lights on in the middle of the dark period hahah

 

[s0high]

O yes and I apologize. I suppose the title of the thread was " Has anyone used PLC's!!!!" hahaha, its the weed man! its the weed! makes me want to jump out the window and bite a dog

 

[BigBudBalls]

Ya, the only reason I mention phidget is because it is a "high-level" interface in my opinion. For instance, you get the usb digital/analog interface hook it up, screw down or plug in the ph, temp, humidity ect... and they have pre-built programs developed in C#, VB, c++ so you can use them out of the box or write your own logic. I would say true PLC's only belong in the manufacture environment as they are 2000% more failsafe than these phidget, xbee ect gadgets. However building something to simply read a ph meter with a PLC is just way overboard.

BigBudBalls, what is your experience with the wireless stuff. I would be very concerned with for some reason the wireless signal getting some interference and fuckin with shit. Shrug, probably runs in the 5.8ghz so when a phone rings you light controls turn you lights on in the middle of the dark period hahah

I agree that a PLC is a bit overkill, but like you said, a LOT more reliable.

As for the wireless stuff, the XBee work fine. I haven't had a single prob with them. They have all the CRCs and such built into them. And at $30 a pop, it ain't bad (they even have I/O and A/D built in, but at 3.3V)

 

[privateaero]

on the number of inputs and out puts the plcs i worked with could have them added 16 at a time very easily. I just took the schooling and have no professional experience though.

 

[Sambiala]

It's great to find like minded growers out there! I've only just stumbled across this place as I have been setting up my own fully automatic/remote managed grow area. - Sorry to hijack another's thread...but thought I might be able to add something while I request some further info.

I decided instead of using PLCs, to use an RTU (remote terminal unit) as I have one already, parts are easily purchased in my area, the logic is easily programmed (text compiled C++) and fairly limitless. I have plenty of I/O so far (128di, 64do, 64ai), the unit has direct network connections fibre and copper & local 232/485 so I was going to use something like Citect (can use many protocols, currently using DNP3) to monitor and control locally at home and via internet (I am regularly away for work), I have also set up networked webcams so via VPN I can see growth progress where ever I might be.

If anyone wants any further info feel free to ask.

I would like to know if anyone knows of cheaper web sources for sensors/analogue transmitters, I have the temp, humidity & CO2 sorted but I cant find much (affordable) permanently submersed analogue gear for dosing - PH & TDS etc. I can use a voltage or current (0-10v, 0-10mA, 0-20mA, 4-20mA) so I'd appreciate it if anyone can point me in the right direction.

Happy growing!

 

[theycallmeoj]

Several of my Co-op grow rooms are PLC controlled. I know NOTHING about PLC's and all that stuff, but i can wire up anything.

One of the members is a guru on all this stuff, and i must say, once the bugs are worked out, it works like a charm. I dunno "How" it all works, but i know what it does; and it does it well.

I dunno exactly what it cost us to retrofit the grow rooms, but it surely wasn't expensive. I know this person had alot of stuff laying around and got alot for free thru work.

If you understand all of this stuff, it's great. I don't, but I can attest to it working really well. It's nice to be able to not even be near the grow room and change things or just have a look via computer.

Good luck with your experiments.

 

[BigBudBalls]

If anyone wants any further info feel free to ask.

I would like to know if anyone knows of cheaper web sources for sensors/analogue transmitters, I have the temp, humidity & CO2 sorted but I cant find much (affordable) permanently submersed analogue gear for dosing - PH & TDS etc. I can use a voltage or current (0-10v, 0-10mA, 0-20mA, 4-20mA) so I'd appreciate it if anyone can point me in the right direction.

Won't be cheap. Full time submerged sensors are not that common outside industrial or laboratory environments (they got money to burn on this stuff). Try www.omega.com

 

[budleydoright]

My controller uses an industrial control board with 8 outputs 8 digital inputs and 3 analog inputs. Runs everything for me including co2. It has 8 outlets that can be switched on or off based on co2, temp, humidity, time or the status of the 8 inputs. Once it's setup, it's done and has never missed a beat. setting up the parameters while not hard, is not super intuative. To program it, you just plug it into an ethernet port on a router and type in it's address in your browser. It has web pages to help set everything up. It's basically a black box with a dryer plug comming out of it, 8 outlets on the side and a probe that reads the temp, co2 and humidity.

 

[Sambiala]

Won't be cheap. Full time submerged sensors are not that common outside industrial or laboratory environments (they got money to burn on this stuff). Try www.omega.com

[FONT=&quot]Thanks for the link 3B they have some good gear. I have been looking around this site the last few days (excellent source of info, hopefully soon I can add something) and you seem to be an oracle on this sort of thing.
I'm not a new to industrial PLC's/SCADA/RTU/IED nor to growing which is why I want to meld the 2 together.
Do you know what type of sensors products like intelidose or hanna continuous models use? These units seem to be quite cheap and include sensors which I assume are permanently submersed. Are these products using cheap sensors which need replacing every few months/years?

I take it you have a dosing system set up? Did you build the logic yourself?

Sorry for all the questions but I do appreciate your time and expertise.[/FONT]

 

[Mcgician]

Holy crap, you guys are way beyond me! Many years ago I toyed with the idea of being able to monitor/control my growroom(s), but had trouble dealing with handing over control over the environment(s) to machines. Obviously, with timers and atmospheric controllers, I'm still doing that to an extent, but you guys have big balls going this far. Huge props! I would LOVE to be able to control my growroom's environmental conditions remotely, but don't know anybody that is willing, or local enough to show me how it's done. Haven't had a decent vacation in more than two years. I still find it hard to imagine I'm still a slave to the grind, even when it comes to this. I'm not a computer nerd, so all this programming jargon is Greek to me. Anybody about an hour north of SF willing to help a fellow grower out?

 

[chiefbootknocker]

I agree that a PLC is a bit overkill, but like you said, a LOT more reliable.

As for the wireless stuff, the XBee work fine. I haven't had a single prob with them. They have all the CRCs and such built into them. And at $30 a pop, it ain't bad (they even have I/O and A/D built in, but at 3.3V)

ha until you have an input or output fail when you aren't there. I programmed a tank filling automation sequence where I worked, and it worked great for the application. After I left that job I was talking to a co-worker from that job about something else, and during the conversation he told be that the valve that I was using to allow the water to enter the tank had stuck (mechanically) open and they came into a flood the next morning.

That is something to consider when implementing a PLC. Imagine a mechanical component failing. Depending on what that component is, and your faith in your programming and equipment i.e. your ability to react to the failure, you could take out your grow, your grow room, or worse. Especially if you are a novice programmer I wouldn't do it. Taking NO/NC contact and energizing a coil is a piece of cake. Having the knowledge to program safety circuits takes some experience.

As far as getting information to a web browser, I'm not real familiar with picos, but most lower end AB does not have ethernet, but in some cases you could tie an AIC module to the PLC and get ethernet through that. The issue becomes transferring the WORD information out of the PLC and then either using some intensive VB code to create a front end for it, or get something like Wonderware and create a GUI from that. Then the PC running Wonderware could have a second eth card installed going to the web and you could just RDP to the PC from remote locations, and control/monitor that way. At any rate quite elborate. May be good for someone growing huge amounts of weed, and wanting to keep clear of the grow site, but still have the process completed. But if you just have a small grow going then I would think money wise and effort it's not worth it. How ever you proceed good luck

 

[Sambiala]

[FONT=&quot]Just a word of advice Mcgician, and not to dis you in any way but if I was not confident with this sort of thing Id be buying an off the shelf type product like those I mentioned above. I would be hesitant bringing someone else to my grow firstly but if it stopped working or stuffed up I wouldn’t want to lose a crop waiting for outside help. If you are interested in learning about it there are a lot of sites around that will get you up to speed quickly, dont make your grow your first project though. Many devices dont require any programming knowledge or code to be written and depending on the depth you want to get into, it really is not beyond the reach of someone with a keen interest.

- I am not running my room fully automated yet but I do work with this gear everyday, just haven’t had the opportunity to set things up properly till now.

The more you understand the gear the more you will allow it to control things.[/FONT]

 

[BigBudBalls]

[FONT=&quot]Thanks for the link 3B they have some good gear. I have been looking around this site the last few days (excellent source of info, hopefully soon I can add something) and you seem to be an oracle on this sort of thing.
I'm not a new to industrial PLC's/SCADA/RTU/IED nor to growing which is why I want to meld the 2 together.
Do you know what type of sensors products like intelidose or hanna continuous models use? These units seem to be quite cheap and include sensors which I assume are permanently submersed. Are these products using cheap sensors which need replacing every few months/years?

I take it you have a dosing system set up? Did you build the logic yourself?

Sorry for all the questions but I do appreciate your time and expertise.[/FONT]

pH sensors are the sticky one. They will wear out. Even the pens or normal ones used for measuring wear out after a year or so. Its just the nature of the beast. (Earl did a *great* post on care and feeding of pH meters)
EC/ppm are a different story, they will last.
The pH probes that 'last for ever' will be a HUGE compromise.

I'd just set up a system that periodically dunked the probes in then back to storage solution. (with a PLC not a big prob)