Health Care.... The myth... and reality.

CrackerJax

New Member
Okay, there seems to be a lot of misinformation out there about health care, so I am here to help.

President Obama just gave his home run speech for health care last week, and no one thought it was a winner of a speech, but he did make some very interesting statements and claims.

I am going to go through the brunt of his speech and give the reality behind what he says. You will see a difference. Do not be alarmed.... politicians lie all the time. Politicians don't however go after 17% of the nations GDP every day, so on this issue, a response is called for. Some straight thinking and straight talk.

Let's begin..... and by the way I am completely for improving our health care system. I just insist that we do it the best way.


We spend north of $2 trillion every year on health care — 17% of our GDP, the most of any wealthy nation. If that sounds like a lot, remember this: An estimated 47% of that already is spent by the government. And government's share will grow even without "reform."
Look closely at the plans so far to emerge from Congress. What the Democrats have proposed, in essence, is a government takeover of nearly one-fifth of our nation's economy. When brought up in Congress, this idea has been rejected repeatedly. Yet, somehow, the idea never dies.




That's why the president's speech Wednesday night was a big disappointment.


**********Obama's statements will be in ITALICS and UNDERLINED.
The response will be in BOLD***********

Obama said : "The uninsured . . . live every day just one accident or illness away from bankruptcy. These are not primarily people on welfare."

Actually, of the 46 million people the census estimates don't have insurance, some 20 million have incomes above average and could afford to buy it, according to a study by former Congressional Budget Office Director June O'Neill.
Of the remaining 26 million uninsured, an estimated 13.7 million are poor. They are eligible for Medicaid — the state health care programs for the poor. But many, too, are illegals — about 8 million.
Though they're eligible, research from the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association suggests as many as 14 million uninsured Americans qualify for public coverage, but don't enroll. And as many as 6 million are enrolled, but don't report it to the government, according to the National Center for Policy Analysis.
That leaves about 5 million people with no care.
By the way, according to the Census Bureau, America now has 37 million people in poverty. But Medicaid enrollment covers 55 million people — at a cost of $350 billion a year.
Based on this, no one should be without care. Which leads us to wonder: Is nationalizing our health care system really necessary to take care of people who already have care available to them?
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Obama said: "Many other Americans . . . are still denied insurance due to previous illnesses or conditions that insurance companies decide are too risky or expensive to cover."


This statement betrays a profound ignorance of what insurance is. If you can buy insurance after you've gotten sick, it's not really insurance, is it? And why have insurance at all? It's an incentive to simply wait until you get sick, then make someone else pay for it.
To see how absurd this is, let's take the same concept to auto insurance. Why not let people buy insurance after they get in an accident? One reason, of course, is it leads to fiscal and personal recklessness.
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Obama said: "There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage . . . every day, 14,000 Americans lose their coverage."


As noted above, the bulk of the 30-plus million uninsured actually can get coverage — and in many cases, qualify for existing government programs. But how about 14,000 Americans losing their coverage each day? A little math shows this is just a scare statistic.
Multiply it out, and it comes to 5.1 million people losing coverage in a year. Sound scary? Consider that, according to the census, 46.3 million Americans don't currently have insurance — 600,000 more than last year. That means that, along with 14,000 Americans losing their coverage each day, another 12,400 Americans are signing up for it — even in the middle of a brutal recession.
Those who lose insurance do so usually because they've lost a job. Most are without insurance for a couple of months or so. The best way to boost the number of insured — and one that "costs" nothing — is to cut taxes, ease regulations and slash government spending. Those policies are all proven job creators.
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Obama said: "We spend one-and-a-half times more per person on health care than any other country, but we aren't any healthier for it."





This is a non sequitur. We spend one and a half times more per person, true. But because our health care here is better. That's right — better. True, our life expectancy of 78.1 years — which is up sharply from just a decade ago — ranks us 30th in the world in longevity. But look a little closer at the data.
The U.S. homicide rate is two to three times higher than in other industrial nations. And we drive a lot more than others, so our auto fatality rate of 14.24 deaths per 100,000 people is higher than in Germany (6.19), France (7.4) or Canada (9.25). Add to this, we eat far more than other countries on average, contributing to higher levels of heart disease, stroke, diabetes and cancer.
When all those factors are figured in, according to a recent study by Robert Ohsfeldt of Texas A&M and John Schneider of the University of Iowa, Americans actually live longer than people in other countries — thanks mainly to our excellent health care.


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Obama said: Rising health care premiums are "why American businesses that compete internationally — like our automakers — are at a huge disadvantage."

Well, right and wrong. Soaring health care premiums are a problem for some. But who's to blame for this? Government health care programs, which make up 47% of all health care spending, are the biggest drivers of rising insurance premiums.
For example, Medicare forces doctors and hospitals to give patients 20% to 30% discounts on their care and drugs. Sounds great. But who pays for the "discount"? Private insurers, that's who. And they pass it on to businesses. This is yet another case of government causing a problem, then blaming the victim.
Even so, in some industries health care premiums are an enormous problem and competitive liability. This is certainly true of the auto and steel industries. But they have no one to blame but themselves.
They gave gold-plated benefit packages to their unions during the fat times, and now that times are lean, want us — taxpayers — to make good on their extravagant promises.
This is why so many big businesses support nationalized health care. It bails them out of their own bad decisions — and by those imposed by government. Just last week a congressional oversight panel announced that taxpayers were unlikely to recoup much of the $81 billion they spent to bail out GM and Chrysler. That's another indirect health care tax your children and grandchildren will have to pay.


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Obama said: "Finally, our health care system is placing an unsustainable burden on taxpayers. ... If we do nothing to slow these skyrocketing costs, we will eventually be spending more on Medicare and Medicaid than every other government program combined."


Are we supposed to believe that adding more government will bring down government costs?
Medicare is already spending more than it is taking in through payroll taxes. Medicare trustees expect the Hospital Insurance Trust Fund part of the program to be insolvent by 2019. From now through 2017, it will need $342 billion of taxpayers' money in order to keep paying hospital insurance benefits alone. Over the next 50 years or so, Medicare's shortfall is expected to hit $37 trillion — an almost unbelievable deficit nearly three times our current GDP.
If Medicare has done one thing, it's proved that government programs always cost more than their original projections. Citing the runaway costs of Medicare is an argument against, not for,

further government intervention.
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Obama said: "On the right, there are those who argue that we should end the employer-based system and leave individuals to buy health insurance on their own. ... I believe it makes more sense to build on what works and fix what doesn't, rather than try to build an entirely new system from scratch."


Discouraging employer-based coverage and encouraging individuals to buy their own insurance would help. But only if lawmakers make two real reforms, neither requiring a "new system from scratch."
First, Washington must give tax credits for premiums paid on individual policies. That would make them more affordable for more people. Second, Washington has to make it easier for Americans to have health savings accounts. HSAs hold costs down because account holders self-ration treatment. They also give people more control over their health care.


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Obama said: "Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have."

Shawn Tully, Fortune editor at large, dug into the legislation and found that for "Americans in large corporations, 'keeping your own plan' has a strict deadline. In five years, like it or not, you'll get dumped into the exchange," a government program in which heavily regulated private companies sell insurance policies.
Workers who buy their own insurance or begin coverage through small businesses will also be forced into the exchange if their plans change in any way, because it's then considered a new plan. Since plans generally change policies every year, Tully says, "it's likely that millions of employees will lose their plans in 12 months."

According to a July study by the Lewin Group and the Heritage Foundation, health reform could cause as many as 88 million Americans to lose their private, employer-based coverage.

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Obama said: "If you lose your job or change your job, you will be able to get coverage. If you strike out on your own and start a small business, you will be able to get coverage. We will do this by creating a new insurance exchange."

The president says this is "a marketplace where individuals and small businesses will be able to shop for health insurance at competitive prices." But it won't be a real marketplace. Participating insurers will be saddled with a host of mandates. Those that don't like the regulations will be left out. There'll be little room for competition.
The Cato Institute's Michael Tanner has said that "in practice, at least as demonstrated in Massachusetts," an exchange "can quickly devolve into a regulatory body."


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Obama said: "Some of people's concerns have grown out of bogus claims. ... The best example is ... that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. ... It is a lie, plain and simple."


As far as we know, there is no provision for a death panel buried in the 1,018-page bill. But we do know how Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the administration's health care czar, feels about treating those who need the most help.

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Obama said: "When the worse-off can benefit only slightly while better-off people could benefit greatly, allocating (treatment) to the better-off is often justifiable."

So the federal government won't be actively killing the old and the sick. It will just let them die by denying them the care that will supposedly be available to every American.

================================================

Obama said: "There are those who also claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false — the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally."

Tough words are one thing, enforcement is another. As Sean Higgins reported last week: "Some independent analysis indicates — contrary to Obama's claim — that the House health bill could result in coverage being extended to illegal immigrants."
It starts with the mandate for everyone to buy insurance, including illegals. Their choices will be presumably through the "exchange," and they won't be eligible for subsidies to buy. But the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service warns there's no verification mechanism. An amendment by GOP Rep. Dean Heller of Nevada, to use electronic immigration records to verify eligibility for subsidies, was shot down by Democrats.

Enforcement woes are nothing new. The U.K.'s nationalized system treats as many as a million illegal immigrants a year because eligibility verification at the point of service is nearly impossible. It's now giving up the ghost of trying because illegals have won the right to be treated at taxpayer expense as a "human right." That's brought new waves of "health tourism" as word spreads.
Cabinet officials, such as Labor Secretary Hilda Solis, support union demands to give amnesty to 12 million illegals. If so, they will get public health care. And hospitals that continue to treat illegals through emergency rooms, are reimbursed through Medicaid.


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Obama said: "My health care proposal has also been attacked by some who oppose reform as a 'government takeover' of the entire health care system. ... Unfortunately, in 34 states, 75% of the insurance market is controlled by five or fewer companies. . .. Without competition, the price of insurance goes up and the quality goes down."

Obama is right about limited numbers of insurers in states. They're the last ones able to survive the layers of bureaucratic mandates and regulations without going bankrupt.
The fastest way to create choice for consumers isn't by adding a government option, but by breaking down trade barriers across state lines. By letting citizens buy insurance from any state, a truly competitive market can develop, with choices in coverage, service and price. It would be far better if each American could buy health insurance from any of the nation's 1,300 insurers, not just a handful in their own states.


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Obama said: "Despite all this, some ... argue that these private (insurance) companies can't fairly compete with the government. And they'd be right if taxpayers were subsidizing this public option. But they won't be. ... (The public option) would ... keep pressure on private insurers to keep their policies affordable and treat their customers better ... ."


When the government acts as both producer and regulator of its own and everyone else's products, the playing field is tilted because there's a basic conflict of interest. It's also a recipe for cronyism and corruption. Witness Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
We looked at the after-tax margins of some big health insurers over the last 12 months. Here's what we found: Among HMOs, Humana, 3.1%; Cigna, 4%; Wellpoint, 5%; and United Health Group, 4.4%. Broader health insurers, like Unum (8.6% after-tax margin) and Aflac (12.3%), do a bit better.
The point is, these are not outrageous profits. And the health care industry's $13 billion in 2008 profits pale in comparison to the $65 billion in annual fraud in Medicare alone.


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Obama said: "I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits — either now or in the future. Period. And to prove that I'm serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don't materialize."


From the folks who brought us a $10 trillion deficit over the next decade, that's hard to swallow. The White House has assured us the public option would be funded by premiums. So, it's hard to know what he means by savings or spending cuts.
Although Medicare and Medicaid, are slated for $313 billion in cuts, the government has yet to eliminate the $65 billion or so that goes to waste and fraud. They don't need health reform to do that, they can do it now.

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Obama said: "The only thing this plan would eliminate is the hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud as well as unwarranted subsidies in Medicare that go to insurance companies — subsidies that do everything to pad their profits and nothing to improve your care."

Speaking of waste and fraud, as we said, why can't it be done today instead of waiting for some health care reform bill to pass? The president proposes $313 billion in Medicaid and Medicare cuts, saying $110 billion would come from reducing scheduled increases in Medicare payments.
"That would encourage health care providers to increase productivity," White House budget director Peter Orszag told reporters. $110 billion would come from ending payments to hospitals to treat uninsured patients. But much of that comes from treating illegals, who aren't supposed to be eligible for the public option.
Another $75 billion would come from "better pricing of Medicare drugs," Orszag said.
What he doesn't get is that some $10 billion of Medicare funding goes to dubious expenditures like hospitals padding bills because they are paid too little and must make up lost revenue in volume.

Cutting payments more means more padding, as the Mayo Clinic has warned. That means rationing. The Democrats' plan may not be explicitly meant to ration, but not paying a fair and market-determined price for services will ensure less of it for patients.
President Obama began his speech by noting it's "been nearly a century since Theodore Roosevelt first called for health reform" and that "nearly every president and Congress, whether Democrat or Republican, has attempted to meet this challenge in some way."
"A bill for comprehensive care reform was first introduced by John Dingell Sr. in 1943," he also pointed out. "Sixty-five years later, his son (Rep. John Dingell, Michigan Democrat now in his 28th term) continues to introduce that same bill at the beginning of each session."
Could it be, we wonder, that the reason why health reform of the kind the Dingells and Democrats have been pushing for 100 years has gone nowhere is that Americans want nothing to do with it? What is it about "No!" that they don't understand?

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Private health care can be fixed MUCH easier than installing a sub standard public option. The Obama team REFUSES to discuss any option that doesn't give them control of the entire industry.

As usual... it is the govt. which is the problem!!!! Obama need only step out of the way. But he won't, because it isn't about fixing health care, it's about controlling health care.

I hope this helps those out there with objective minds. :peace: Don't be fooled!!!
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
OR, you could read the original article that CrackerJax cut and pasted from HERE:

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=337562347635294

IBD is Investor's Business Daily... the same publication that brought us the following "coverage":

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

No matter that Stephen Hawking was born and still lives in the U.K., whose NHS have provided him care for his entire life.


/Yawn


Seriously CJ, can't you do any better than this?
 

JustAnotherFriedDay

Well-Known Member
OR, you could read the original article that CrackerJax cut and pasted from HERE:

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=337562347635294

IBD is Investor's Business Daily... the same publication that brought us the following "coverage":

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

No matter that Stephen Hawking was born and still lives in the U.K., whose NHS have provided him care for his entire life.


/Yawn


Seriously CJ, can't you do any better than this?
I ask you that same question.

I also ask you this question. Doesn't have to do with health care but, do you believe our constitution is fundamentally flawed?

Our president does.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I ask you that same question.

I also asked you this question. Doesn't have to do with health care but, do you believe our constitution is fundamentally flawed?

Our president does.
Yeah because allowing for people to be slaves was such a great thing right? I mean why not say that a black man was worth 3/5th of a white man? Or how about women not being able to vote?

No nothing wrong about that.
 

kappainf

Well-Known Member
Here is a summary of his speech for those who didn't hear it.

Major components of Obama’s healthcare reform plan, based on his address.

- If you have Health insurance you will not be required to have the government plan.
- You will not be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.
o It will be unlawful for insurance companies to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions.
o It will be unlawful for insurance companies to drop, or change, coverage if you get sick.
o Insurance companies will not place a cap on your amount of coverage.
o Insurance companies will have to place a limit on out of pocket expenses for individuals
o Insurance companies will be required to provide routine check-ups and preventative care at no extra cost to the individual
- If you don’t have health insurance coverage you will have quality affordable choices.
- Government will create a new insurance exchange.
- Government will provide tax credits to businesses.
- Everyone must have some form of health insurance, like auto insurance
- If businesses don’t buy health insurance, they will be asked to “chip in” or pay additional taxes / fines.
o However, 95% of businesses will be exempt.
- There will be a “public option” in the insurance exchange.
o An option for those who don’t have insurance, no one will be forced to choose it.
- The plan will not be funded by taxpayer dollars.
- No plan will be signed that adds to our national debt.
o The plan will be funded from cuts in wasteful spending on things like medi-care. “Hundreds of billions.”

Basic components of the arguments of the opponents of the plan, based on his address.

- On the left, the idea is that, the only way to fix healthcare is through a single payer system, like Canada.
- On the right, the idea is that, we end employer based healthcare systems, and leave individuals to buy insurance on their own.
- Either approach would lead to a radical shift and disrupt healthcare most people currently have.
- Key concerns on bogus claims about the healthcare bill.
o This plan will limit care and kill seniors.
o This plan will insure illegal immigrants.
o This plan will fund abortion.
o This plan will be a government takeover of the healthcare system.
o This plan will allow Obama to put insurance companies out of business.


Good post CJ, do you mind if i use your posts to help inform my liberal gov't professor?
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Good post CJ, do you mind if i use your posts to help inform my liberal gov't professor?

You'd better ask Investor's Business Daily, since CrackerJax ripped the original post in this thread directly from them.

Don't give him credit for it, all he did was cut it from a website and paste it here.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
You'd better ask Investor's Business Daily, since CrackerJax ripped the original post in this thread directly from them.

Don't give him credit for it, all he did was cut it from a website and paste it here.
As do 90% of the people here, I know I do. But yes I agree credit should be given to the proper entity.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
I ask you that same question.

I also ask you this question. Doesn't have to do with health care but, do you believe our constitution is fundamentally flawed?

Our president does.

No, he doesn't. He said it was "imperfect" and "reflects a fundamental flaw that exists in society" both when it was written, and today.

Do you think the Constitution was perfect as it was originally written, and still perfect today?
 

CrackerJax

New Member
OR, you could read the original article that CrackerJax cut and pasted from HERE:

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=337562347635294

IBD is Investor's Business Daily... the same publication that brought us the following "coverage":

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

No matter that Stephen Hawking was born and still lives in the U.K., whose NHS have provided him care for his entire life.


/Yawn


Seriously CJ, can't you do any better than this?
Using a misinterpreted story as a way to disprove an entire news organization will quickly leave everyone without sources... :roll: Think it through folks... think it through.

The IBD was dead on with Hawkens and his wife now corroborates the IBD story.... so u'll have to find another error....

YAWN.....

Let's use a bit of common sense... which party has something to gain by misinformation with health care? IBD or the Govt.? Which party needs to keep its integrity to sell their product? IBD.....not the govt.

use a bit of common sense..... haters aside.... the IBD is one of the finest papers in the world. No one with an education doubts that much....

As you can see, there are some very effective fixes for private health care that Obama is NOT talking about. There are options.... much better options than handing over 17% of our GDP to ppl who time and again waste our hard earned money...

Think it through folks....


Don't be swayed by the haters and misinformed.....


Kapp, u go right ahead.... :lol: Hope u don't care about ur grade in that class.....
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
As do 90% of the people here, I know I do. But yes I agree credit should be given to the proper entity.
I've seen you post articles, and you post them as what they are: articles from another source.



"I am going to go through the brunt of his speech and give the reality behind what he says." - CrackerJax

Clearly he is attempting to pass this off as his own writing
 

kappainf

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if Investors business daily monitors this forum. Either way this post was very informative.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I've seen you post articles, and you post them as what they are: articles from another source.



"I am going to go through the brunt of his speech and give the reality behind what he says." - CrackerJax

Clearly he is attempting to pass this off as his own writing
I can give CJ the benefit of the doubt here, just as I would do to you Doob. its not plagiarism because their is no grade in this class. Perhaps he just forgot to give the credit due.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
I can give CJ the benefit of the doubt here, just as I would do to you Doob. its not plagiarism because their is no grade in this class. Perhaps he just forgot to give the credit due.

Hooooo-kay. If you say so.

Forgetting to give credit doesn't explain the statement "I am going to go through what he said and explain what it means", when he could just as easily have said "Here is an article I found that explains things".

I'm thinking more along the lines of... he forgot about Google, or thinks we're all stupid. Maybe a little of both.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Hooooo-kay. If you say so.

Forgetting to give credit doesn't explain the statement "I am going to go through what he said and explain what it means", when he could just as easily have said "Here is an article I found that explains things".

I'm thinking more along the lines of... he forgot about Google, or thinks we're all stupid. Maybe a little of both.
Well anyway he should know better than to try and get it past a consummate fact checker as yourself, thats why I think its just accidental. CJ is certainly not stupid, you know that as well as I. In fact this forum section ( Politics) probably has some of the most well read, educated, critical thinkers of ANY forum I've ever been on, and you can include yourself in that summation.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Well anyway he should know better than to try and get it past a consummate fact checker as yourself, thats why I think its just accidental. CJ is certainly not stupid, you know that as well as I. In fact this forum section ( Politics) probably has some of the most well read, educated, critical thinkers of ANY forum I've ever been on, and you can include yourself in that summation.

Flattery will get you nowhere... though I think I may be falling in love with you...

Anyway, you're probably right and it was accidental. As the resident consummate fact checker I felt it was my duty to attribute the article to its true source.

Stupid, no, but the term "selective intelligence" does come to mind.

Now back to the liberal bashing already in progress.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
I also never claimed it to be my own..... difference. I reformatted the article for brevity. The way I put it together one could easily peruse specific points without getting lost in the text as I did when I read it in the paper. Going back and forth is a pain (as some do with 28 mini quotes in one response :lol: U know who U R!)

The other reason why I didn't just post the entire article verbatim is I do that already in "Articles of Interest" .................. &...........................nobody reads them and if they do, they complain that it's too long... :lol: :roll:

I jhave an answer to the Stephen hawking post and I will print it in it's entirety... :lol: don't worry, it isn't too long. It also shows that hawking is indeed a genius. He did not get pinned down. He kept Brittainia happy on the official side, while all along knowing his wife would do the corrections privately.... read on. hawking... mastermind.
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By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:20 PM PT
Medical Care: We took a lot of heat for using Stephen Hawking as an example of someone who'd suffer under a socialized health system. But a closer look at the treatment he got in the U.K. shows it wasn't all roses.
IBD Exclusive Series: Government-Run Healthcare: A Prescription For Failure

As our Aug. 1 editorial put it: "People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."
Now, Hawking is British and — though he suffers from amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), often referred to as "Lou Gehrig's Disease" — is very much alive at 67. He even credited the NHS for being so. We used a bad example and corrected that, but it didn't stop the Internet Left and the likes of New York Times columnist Paul Krugman from suggesting Hawking's life proved the value of the U.K. system.
Krugman devoted not one but two essays to this, calling the editorial "vile and stupid," and claiming IBD was "trying to frighten its readers." "We've all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false," he wrote.
Krugman suggested that the care Hawking got represents the kind all of us would get if we socialized our medical system too. But evidence shows that isn't so.
Hawking is the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge University, a renowned post once held by Sir Isaac Newton. He's a best-selling author and one of the most famous people in the world. Any harm that could come to him from the NHS would be big news, with political repercussions for the British system.
But, as Kayak2U blogger Mike Soja noted, it wasn't always that way.
Hawking biographers Michael White and John Gribben, in the second edition of their 2003 book, "Stephen Hawking, A Life In Science," found that back when Hawking was less well-known, NHS wasn't nearly as good to him.
In the mid-1960s, Hawking's father became disillusioned with the care Hawking was getting from NHS and took over his son's treatment himself, doing his own research and prescribing vitamins.
On his own Web site, Hawking recalls that private help was also critical. "I caught pneumonia in 1985," he says. "I had to have a tracheotomy operation. After this, I had to have 24-hour nursing care. This was made possible by grants from several foundations."
White and Gribben describe what that meant: "The best the National Health Service could offer was seven hours' nursing help a week . . . They would have to pay for private nursing. It was obvious they would have to find financial support from somewhere.
"Jane (his wife) wrote letter after letter to charitable organizations around the world and called upon the help of family friends in approaching institutions that might be interested in assisting them.
"Help arrived from an American foundation aware of Hawking's work and international reputation, which agreed to pay £50,000 a year toward the costs of nursing. Shortly afterward several other charitable organizations on both sides of the Atlantic followed suit with smaller donations.
"Jane feels bitter about the whole affair. She resents the fact that, after paying a lifetime of contributions to the National Health Service, they were offered such meager help when the need arose. She is very aware that if her husband had been an unknown physics teacher he would now be living out his final days in a residential home.
" 'Think of the waste of talent,' she has said of the situation."
Do we have to say more? The sorry reality is that a socialized program with no accountability and no competition is inferior to a free private system that must put its clients first — or go out of business.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
I also never claimed it to be my own..... difference. I reformatted the article for brevity. The way I put it together one could easily peruse specific points without getting lost in the text as I did when I read it in the paper. Going back and forth is a pain (as some do with 28 mini quotes in one response :lol: U know who U R!)

The other reason why I didn't just post the entire article verbatim is I do that already in "Articles of Interest" .................. &...........................nobody reads them and if they do, they complain that it's too long... :lol: :roll:

I jhave an answer to the Stephen hawking post and I will print it in it's entirety... :lol: don't worry, it isn't too long. It also shows that hawking is indeed a genius. He did not get pinned down. He kept Brittainia happy on the official side, while all along knowing his wife would do the corrections privately.... read on. hawking... mastermind.
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By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:20 PM PT
Medical Care: We took a lot of heat for using Stephen Hawking as an example of someone who'd suffer under a socialized health system. But a closer look at the treatment he got in the U.K. shows it wasn't all roses.
IBD Exclusive Series: Government-Run Healthcare: A Prescription For Failure

As our Aug. 1 editorial put it: "People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."
Now, Hawking is British and — though he suffers from amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), often referred to as "Lou Gehrig's Disease" — is very much alive at 67. He even credited the NHS for being so. We used a bad example and corrected that, but it didn't stop the Internet Left and the likes of New York Times columnist Paul Krugman from suggesting Hawking's life proved the value of the U.K. system.
Krugman devoted not one but two essays to this, calling the editorial "vile and stupid," and claiming IBD was "trying to frighten its readers." "We've all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false," he wrote.
Krugman suggested that the care Hawking got represents the kind all of us would get if we socialized our medical system too. But evidence shows that isn't so.
Hawking is the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge University, a renowned post once held by Sir Isaac Newton. He's a best-selling author and one of the most famous people in the world. Any harm that could come to him from the NHS would be big news, with political repercussions for the British system.
But, as Kayak2U blogger Mike Soja noted, it wasn't always that way.
Hawking biographers Michael White and John Gribben, in the second edition of their 2003 book, "Stephen Hawking, A Life In Science," found that back when Hawking was less well-known, NHS wasn't nearly as good to him.
In the mid-1960s, Hawking's father became disillusioned with the care Hawking was getting from NHS and took over his son's treatment himself, doing his own research and prescribing vitamins.
On his own Web site, Hawking recalls that private help was also critical. "I caught pneumonia in 1985," he says. "I had to have a tracheotomy operation. After this, I had to have 24-hour nursing care. This was made possible by grants from several foundations."
White and Gribben describe what that meant: "The best the National Health Service could offer was seven hours' nursing help a week . . . They would have to pay for private nursing. It was obvious they would have to find financial support from somewhere.
"Jane (his wife) wrote letter after letter to charitable organizations around the world and called upon the help of family friends in approaching institutions that might be interested in assisting them.
"Help arrived from an American foundation aware of Hawking's work and international reputation, which agreed to pay £50,000 a year toward the costs of nursing. Shortly afterward several other charitable organizations on both sides of the Atlantic followed suit with smaller donations.
"Jane feels bitter about the whole affair. She resents the fact that, after paying a lifetime of contributions to the National Health Service, they were offered such meager help when the need arose. She is very aware that if her husband had been an unknown physics teacher he would now be living out his final days in a residential home.
" 'Think of the waste of talent,' she has said of the situation."
Do we have to say more? The sorry reality is that a socialized program with no accountability and no competition is inferior to a free private system that must put its clients first — or go out of business.
I don't mind long posts, as long as they are formatted and aren't a solidwalloftext.

That follow-up doesn't really excuse their lack of fact checking before running the original article. What they are basically saying is Mr. Hawking received care, but it wasn't exceptional care until he became famous so that somehow justifies the statement they made in the first article.

Replace "famous" with "rich", and they just described the health care system in the US (except in the UK, everyone receives treatment, even if it's unexceptional).
 
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