Do Your Plants Know the Difference Between Organic and Inorganic Fertilizers?

mariapastor

Well-Known Member
Considering that most everything you eat comes from chemical fertilizers.... the "taste" issue is a myth.

Organics are weaker and slower. That's why farmers prefer chemical fert's. You will have a good grow with both kinds of fert's if you do it correctly.

Just rememeber you can burn ur plants with organics... it just takes a long time to show up. Most ppl forget about the overload a month later and can't figure out what happened. Chem fert lets you know right away.
organics provides a steadily available supply of npk!! not thru its direct contents, because its direct contents are life!!! its bi-product is npk ... meaning the fungal and bacteria life sustain a chain of events that constantly producing npk. chemical ferts are strong because the amount of available npk to the plant is being constantly depleted by each watering. of course your plant knows the difference thats why a orgaNic grown plant looks way healthier ... its because the plant amune system learns to live with a beneficial fungal and bacterial host and provides a amunity for foreign and dangerous fungal and bacteria ... a chemical feed plant doesnt concentrate of growing amunities it just grows thats why it will looks slightly bigger than a organic crop but by no means does a chem crop look healthier nor by the slightest greener than a organically grown crop.... its proven that a organic grown plant are most likely to survive adversities during its life including drought pest fungal frost etc etc
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Organic is simply slower and less efficient. that's all. It's all the same to the plant.

The direct contents of all fert come the earth. One is simply made more efficiently.

walking is fine, until a bike comes along. Chem fert is the bike. You can still walk if you want to, but a bike is an improvement.

You can't feed the planet with organic fertilizer. Only in a country like the USA, which produces a phenomenal amount of food, can organics get a foothold in the commercial market. Only our wealth allows that market to compete (it costs more to produce).

In the third world, they use organics... if they can't get chemical. They want food, they don't have enough. Want to increase your yield by 30% using the same land? Chem fert is the answer.
 

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
walking is fine, until a bike comes along. Chem fert is the bike. You can still walk if you want to, but a bike is an improvement.
I love the analogies.

So CrackerJax, do you think chemical ferts have any adverse effects to humans? Clearly they make plants grow faster/larger, but are they as healthy for us as they could be with organics?
 

CrackerJax

New Member
No, I don't think chemically induced fertilizers are a health concern. The true health concern is the additives placed in the food after harvest. It's the processing which is killing us all... :wink:

With organic and chemical ferts, the two methodologies and processes may vary, but they both end up at the same place... NPK.
 

mariapastor

Well-Known Member
Organic is simply slower and less efficient. that's all. It's all the same to the plant.

The direct contents of all fert come the earth. One is simply made more efficiently.

walking is fine, until a bike comes along. Chem fert is the bike. You can still walk if you want to, but a bike is an improvement.

You can't feed the planet with organic fertilizer. Only in a country like the USA, which produces a phenomenal amount of food, can organics get a foothold in the commercial market. Only our wealth allows that market to compete (it costs more to produce).

In the third world, they use organics... if they can't get chemical. They want food, they don't have enough. Want to increase your yield by 30% using the same land? Chem fert is the answer.
did u know that in california they use organic ferts the cows eat and fertilize the field organics are not slow they are sufficient....Name one farm that uses chemical ferts i could name 2 that dont anyways why pay for nutes if they are free and suffecient makes no scence why pollute the earth>>???? ask subcool and he will tell you that organic is suffecient .. he just uses the same organic soil

from start to finish no extra stuff ... thats how i know that organics are sufficient


check it subcool soil mix it was on hightimes and he is the moderator herehttps://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/44686-subcools-super-soil.html
 

TheNatural

Well-Known Member
To each their own.

However this is the best fertilizer in my book.

Not too many ways of growing Herb that I have not tried and smoked or otherwise.

The plants absolutely know the difference and most important....I do.

Healthy and potent smoke will always result for me, by using worms and bugs and scraps.

My bugs like soil....not plants.

With proper companion planting " something oddly very few I know do, "
you are able to increase their essential oils and keep the pesky critters away and have other beneficial and medicinal Herbs to contribute to the grow itself and the Health of the Trees.

People who do large grows I understand,may not feel as if they have the time to mess with all of the details of Organics.

Funny thing is however,once you have your soil alive and thriving and if small growers would consider Re-Vegging, it is very simple and sustainable and your plants will continue to give incredible smoke and as the soil continues to richen, the Trees just get better and more sticky every Re-Vegged grow.

Have done this and it works well for those that are willing to try it and learn to really appreciate the simplicity of Organics and even more important, the increased health benefits of the Herb itself, once injested.

I just LOVE hearing brothers and sister have their genius moments as we all do at times, but some of our debates in life are nill and void and this would be one of them for me.....Organics all the way.

Blessings,

Rev. TheNatural
 

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smppro

Well-Known Member
thees no difference in taste, blah blah, none. As far as being better for you i would say synthetic nutes would be. The only requirement organics have to meet is what the source of it is. Synthetic nutes give exactly what the plants need AND the nutrients the human need(if we are talking consuming them).
 

Anjinsan

Well-Known Member
if there weren't benefits to chemical fertilizers they wouldn't be the fert of choice for the vast majority of produce made in the modernized world.

A) They are cheap.
B) They produce outstanding results. Larger yields, faster growing times. (this proves your plants love them)
C) I found less bugs in general when using chemical ferts than using organic. Gnats fecking love blood meal and molasses...not so much miracle grow.
 

smppro

Well-Known Member
if there weren't benefits to chemical fertilizers they wouldn't be the fert of choice for the vast majority of produce made in the modernized world.

A) They are cheap.
B) They produce outstanding results. Larger yields, faster growing times. (this proves your plants love them)
C) I found less bugs in general when using chemical ferts than using organic. Gnats fecking love blood meal and molasses...not so much miracle grow.
all correct, they are much more practical, hearing people say synthetic nutes are bad for you and plants is like hearing people say marijuana kills brain cells and makes you rape white women.:joint:
 

CrackerJax

New Member
It is estimated that if we all went organic we would reduce our food supply by 30%.

There is no going backwards to organics for commercial farming. Niche organic farming still has a market, only because some ppl are willing to spend the extra cash for the organic produce.

Chemical and organic are practically the same, it's just that chemical is so much more efficient.
 

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
That sounds really nice, but keep in mind it was likely written by someone who works in a cubical for a marketing company. I can say this because I work for one. Unless its a multi-billion dollar company, no one is doing studies. A writer might read one or two wikipedia articles and maybe even a blog, then call it a day.

I grow organic because I'm not a chemist. If I don't understand the effects of an ingredient, then I don't want it in by body. Its not just weed, but food and shampoos too. This is personal choice we make, like being vegan or hating Chuck Norris. I won't however, go around pretending that my grow is better or more potent the others. The facts would be against me.

The reality is, there are no definitive studies that prove organic is better then non-organic. One group does a study with one out come, then two more groups do a study and say the opposite. What we do know is that there are dangers from using heavy pesticides. Over fertilization can act like pesticides and kill worms, beneficial insects, and even the plants themselves. We pay for more expensive fertilizers not because they possess miracle like qualities, but because quality control is handled better and they have rarer ingredients. I can setup my own worm & bat farm, but it's a lot of work. So I gladly dish out $20 a bottle for some uber expensive shit.

I could probably use my own shit, but Taco Bell is really cheap right now and not that hardcore into recycling. :-?

Here is a more trust worthy source that talks about fertilizers:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/333446/why_organic_fertilizers_are_safer_to.html?singlepage=true&cat=32
 

Zod

Member
Yes, there is a difference between organic and inorganic fertilizers.

The differences can be subtle and range from non-existent to quite large depending on the grow! (strain/light/size of plant...etc.)

It's more a matter of using the right tool for the job. While it may be true that a claw hammer and a ball-pein hammer both work the same and if you just want to get a nail in the wall....either will work fine. But for specific situations one hammer will be much better suited for the job at hand.

walking is fine, until a bike comes along. Chem fert is the bike. You can still walk if you want to, but a bike is an improvement
Organics and salt fertilizers are BOTH bikes. They just have different gearing!. If you want fast growth with small plants, ride a chem bike. If you want long term growth on large plants ride an organic bike.

But analogy's can only take the debate so far.So I'm going to try and explain the differences as I understand them, and what my personal experiences have shown....




First off, lets make one thing perfectly clear - Its all chemicals!:shock:

I think it makes more sense to think in terms of salt fertilizers (water soluble) and organic fertilizers (broken down by microbes) and leave the word chemical out of it.

What we are really arguing about is the source of the chemicals and/or how they are bound up together.

For instance; does the "N" part of the nitrogen your plant is getting come from ammonia (NH3), ammonium (NH+4), ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3),ammonium sulphate ((NH4)2SO4), Magnesium nitrate Mg(NO3)2......just to name a few. In each case your plant may still receive the "same" nitrogen atom and it may not care where it came from, but Your soil/medium and roots care because of what gets left behind. Salt fertilizers can cause problems in the long run...salt build up, PH problems, Nutrient lockout. Good organic soils tend to improve over time especially with the addition of an occasional compost tea/batguano tea.

You also have to consider the ratio/Proportion of nutrients to one another. With salt fertilizers your plant will Up-take nutrients in what ever ratio you give it, whether it needs it or not. Organic fertilizers are buffered a bit more by the soil and the microbes.

When people talk about taste its more of an "over-fed" vs "well-fed" thing. Or to put it another way....the biggest healthiest plant has the biggest best buds. Its the over-feeding that effects how it tastes and how well it burns. And It is much easier to over-feed using salt fertilizers and consequently harder to hit the bullseye. Thats what gives the Salt fertilizers a bad rap. Too many people dump massive amounts of nutrients into the plant. But when done correctly it can be hard for all but the most jaded connoisseur to tell the difference.

Organics also use different tools. For instance: Mycorrhizal fungi -- "A plant well colonized with mycorrhizal fungi will have the equivalent of ten times more roots than one without the fungi. Another benefit of this association is that, as long as the fungi is flourishing, it can prevent all root pathogens and damaging nematodes from attacking the plant root."

I am not even trying to say one is better then the other, just that there are differences(I still skipped a lot). And if you keep in mind the differences you can use the right tool for the job.

case in point...


I have been growing a strain of lavender for a number of years now. It is one of the more potent strains I have smoked.(true medical marijuana) Unfortunately it is also the lowest yielding plant I have ever seen. If you try and do a sea of green with small plants you end up with some nice hard nugs, but no real colas, whats there is nice, but there is just not much of it. However if you grow just a few very large plants you really start to get your yield back. (as a medical marijuana patient less plants is better) I have found that this strain is capable of very fast growth and can take Huge amounts of fertilizer.

With this plant I use the best of both worlds.

For fast early growth I take my rooted clones, put them in 1/2 gallon containers of Fox Farm ocean forest, and water with General Hydroponics Flora Series(full strength!). They green up in a day or two, and 2 weeks later I have an 8" tall lush plant. Organics don't break down fast enough and the roots are too small to take advantage of whats there. But the water soluble 'salt fertilizers' go straight into the plant force feeding it. Most strains would not like this but my strain loves it!


For the second stage I go strictly organic. My 2 week old plants are transplanted into 7 gallon buckets. This is where organics start to shine. I am able to front load all my nutes.(5 weeks of vegging and 9 weeks flowering) But more importantly I can keep my plants extremely healthy but never over-fed. Why is this so important to me? Two words...bud rot. The strain I grow has some very dense buds. If I keep it green and healthy up to the end - no bud rot. With organics I can keep it healthy and thriving to the very end and not need to do much flushing.

Could I go pure organic at the start? Sure. It would just take a week longer to get the plant where i need it. One way is just faster and the end result is exactly the same.

Could I use salt fertilizers from start to finish? Sure. But I would have a much harder time riding the over-fed/under-fed line. And I would have to worry more about salt build-up and PH issues toward the end of the grow. After 3 1/2 months it gets tougher to maintain the "perfect" plant with salt ferts. But with organics I can hit the mark every time.

Using this system I have finally found grow room nirvana!

I guess the point I'm trying to make is - know your tools and know your strain. Salt fertilizers and organics both have strengths and weaknesses. You just need to match them to the Strengths and weaknesses of your strain.

I feel like I said too much and yet barely touched the surface of the subject!

I hope this makes sense....I'm very stoned bongsmilie and tend to ramble....hahaha
 

smppro

Well-Known Member
Yes, there is a difference between organic and inorganic fertilizers.

The differences can be subtle and range from non-existent to quite large depending on the grow! (strain/light/size of plant...etc.)

It's more a matter of using the right tool for the job. While it may be true that a claw hammer and a ball-pein hammer both work the same and if you just want to get a nail in the wall....either will work fine. But for specific situations one hammer will be much better suited for the job at hand.



Organics and salt fertilizers are BOTH bikes. They just have different gearing!. If you want fast growth with small plants, ride a chem bike. If you want long term growth on large plants ride an organic bike.

But analogy's can only take the debate so far.So I'm going to try and explain the differences as I understand them, and what my personal experiences have shown....




First off, lets make one thing perfectly clear - Its all chemicals!:shock:

I think it makes more sense to think in terms of salt fertilizers (water soluble) and organic fertilizers (broken down by microbes) and leave the word chemical out of it.

What we are really arguing about is the source of the chemicals and/or how they are bound up together.

For instance; does the "N" part of the nitrogen your plant is getting come from ammonia (NH3), ammonium (NH+4), ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3),ammonium sulphate ((NH4)2SO4), Magnesium nitrate Mg(NO3)2......just to name a few. In each case your plant may still receive the "same" nitrogen atom and it may not care where it came from, but Your soil/medium and roots care because of what gets left behind. Salt fertilizers can cause problems in the long run...salt build up, PH problems, Nutrient lockout. Good organic soils tend to improve over time especially with the addition of an occasional compost tea/batguano tea.

You also have to consider the ratio/Proportion of nutrients to one another. With salt fertilizers your plant will Up-take nutrients in what ever ratio you give it, whether it needs it or not. Organic fertilizers are buffered a bit more by the soil and the microbes.

When people talk about taste its more of an "over-fed" vs "well-fed" thing. Or to put it another way....the biggest healthiest plant has the biggest best buds. Its the over-feeding that effects how it tastes and how well it burns. And It is much easier to over-feed using salt fertilizers and consequently harder to hit the bullseye. Thats what gives the Salt fertilizers a bad rap. Too many people dump massive amounts of nutrients into the plant. But when done correctly it can be hard for all but the most jaded connoisseur to tell the difference.

Organics also use different tools. For instance: Mycorrhizal fungi -- "A plant well colonized with mycorrhizal fungi will have the equivalent of ten times more roots than one without the fungi. Another benefit of this association is that, as long as the fungi is flourishing, it can prevent all root pathogens and damaging nematodes from attacking the plant root."

I am not even trying to say one is better then the other, just that there are differences(I still skipped a lot). And if you keep in mind the differences you can use the right tool for the job.

case in point...


I have been growing a strain of lavender for a number of years now. It is one of the more potent strains I have smoked.(true medical marijuana) Unfortunately it is also the lowest yielding plant I have ever seen. If you try and do a sea of green with small plants you end up with some nice hard nugs, but no real colas, whats there is nice, but there is just not much of it. However if you grow just a few very large plants you really start to get your yield back. (as a medical marijuana patient less plants is better) I have found that this strain is capable of very fast growth and can take Huge amounts of fertilizer.

With this plant I use the best of both worlds.

For fast early growth I take my rooted clones, put them in 1/2 gallon containers of Fox Farm ocean forest, and water with General Hydroponics Flora Series(full strength!). They green up in a day or two, and 2 weeks later I have an 8" tall lush plant. Organics don't break down fast enough and the roots are too small to take advantage of whats there. But the water soluble 'salt fertilizers' go straight into the plant force feeding it. Most strains would not like this but my strain loves it!


For the second stage I go strictly organic. My 2 week old plants are transplanted into 7 gallon buckets. This is where organics start to shine. I am able to front load all my nutes.(5 weeks of vegging and 9 weeks flowering) But more importantly I can keep my plants extremely healthy but never over-fed. Why is this so important to me? Two words...bud rot. The strain I grow has some very dense buds. If I keep it green and healthy up to the end - no bud rot. With organics I can keep it healthy and thriving to the very end and not need to do much flushing.

Could I go pure organic at the start? Sure. It would just take a week longer to get the plant where i need it. One way is just faster and the end result is exactly the same.

Could I use salt fertilizers from start to finish? Sure. But I would have a much harder time riding the over-fed/under-fed line. And I would have to worry more about salt build-up and PH issues toward the end of the grow. After 3 1/2 months it gets tougher to maintain the "perfect" plant with salt ferts. But with organics I can hit the mark every time.

Using this system I have finally found grow room nirvana!

I guess the point I'm trying to make is - know your tools and know your strain. Salt fertilizers and organics both have strengths and weaknesses. You just need to match them to the Strengths and weaknesses of your strain.

I feel like I said too much and yet barely touched the surface of the subject!

I hope this makes sense....I'm very stoned bongsmilie and tend to ramble....hahaha
good post, you mix the 2, thats what i do, i like it:peace:
 

TheNatural

Well-Known Member
Yes, there is a difference between organic and inorganic fertilizers.

The differences can be subtle and range from non-existent to quite large depending on the grow! (strain/light/size of plant...etc.)

It's more a matter of using the right tool for the job. While it may be true that a claw hammer and a ball-pein hammer both work the same and if you just want to get a nail in the wall....either will work fine. But for specific situations one hammer will be much better suited for the job at hand.



Organics and salt fertilizers are BOTH bikes. They just have different gearing!. If you want fast growth with small plants, ride a chem bike. If you want long term growth on large plants ride an organic bike.

But analogy's can only take the debate so far.So I'm going to try and explain the differences as I understand them, and what my personal experiences have shown....




First off, lets make one thing perfectly clear - Its all chemicals!:shock:

I think it makes more sense to think in terms of salt fertilizers (water soluble) and organic fertilizers (broken down by microbes) and leave the word chemical out of it.

What we are really arguing about is the source of the chemicals and/or how they are bound up together.

For instance; does the "N" part of the nitrogen your plant is getting come from ammonia (NH3), ammonium (NH+4), ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3),ammonium sulphate ((NH4)2SO4), Magnesium nitrate Mg(NO3)2......just to name a few. In each case your plant may still receive the "same" nitrogen atom and it may not care where it came from, but Your soil/medium and roots care because of what gets left behind. Salt fertilizers can cause problems in the long run...salt build up, PH problems, Nutrient lockout. Good organic soils tend to improve over time especially with the addition of an occasional compost tea/batguano tea.

You also have to consider the ratio/Proportion of nutrients to one another. With salt fertilizers your plant will Up-take nutrients in what ever ratio you give it, whether it needs it or not. Organic fertilizers are buffered a bit more by the soil and the microbes.

When people talk about taste its more of an "over-fed" vs "well-fed" thing. Or to put it another way....the biggest healthiest plant has the biggest best buds. Its the over-feeding that effects how it tastes and how well it burns. And It is much easier to over-feed using salt fertilizers and consequently harder to hit the bullseye. Thats what gives the Salt fertilizers a bad rap. Too many people dump massive amounts of nutrients into the plant. But when done correctly it can be hard for all but the most jaded connoisseur to tell the difference.

Organics also use different tools. For instance: Mycorrhizal fungi -- "A plant well colonized with mycorrhizal fungi will have the equivalent of ten times more roots than one without the fungi. Another benefit of this association is that, as long as the fungi is flourishing, it can prevent all root pathogens and damaging nematodes from attacking the plant root."

I am not even trying to say one is better then the other, just that there are differences(I still skipped a lot). And if you keep in mind the differences you can use the right tool for the job.

case in point...


I have been growing a strain of lavender for a number of years now. It is one of the more potent strains I have smoked.(true medical marijuana) Unfortunately it is also the lowest yielding plant I have ever seen. If you try and do a sea of green with small plants you end up with some nice hard nugs, but no real colas, whats there is nice, but there is just not much of it. However if you grow just a few very large plants you really start to get your yield back. (as a medical marijuana patient less plants is better) I have found that this strain is capable of very fast growth and can take Huge amounts of fertilizer.

With this plant I use the best of both worlds.

For fast early growth I take my rooted clones, put them in 1/2 gallon containers of Fox Farm ocean forest, and water with General Hydroponics Flora Series(full strength!). They green up in a day or two, and 2 weeks later I have an 8" tall lush plant. Organics don't break down fast enough and the roots are too small to take advantage of whats there. But the water soluble 'salt fertilizers' go straight into the plant force feeding it. Most strains would not like this but my strain loves it!


For the second stage I go strictly organic. My 2 week old plants are transplanted into 7 gallon buckets. This is where organics start to shine. I am able to front load all my nutes.(5 weeks of vegging and 9 weeks flowering) But more importantly I can keep my plants extremely healthy but never over-fed. Why is this so important to me? Two words...bud rot. The strain I grow has some very dense buds. If I keep it green and healthy up to the end - no bud rot. With organics I can keep it healthy and thriving to the very end and not need to do much flushing.

Could I go pure organic at the start? Sure. It would just take a week longer to get the plant where i need it. One way is just faster and the end result is exactly the same.

Could I use salt fertilizers from start to finish? Sure. But I would have a much harder time riding the over-fed/under-fed line. And I would have to worry more about salt build-up and PH issues toward the end of the grow. After 3 1/2 months it gets tougher to maintain the "perfect" plant with salt ferts. But with organics I can hit the mark every time.

Using this system I have finally found grow room nirvana!

I guess the point I'm trying to make is - know your tools and know your strain. Salt fertilizers and organics both have strengths and weaknesses. You just need to match them to the Strengths and weaknesses of your strain.

I feel like I said too much and yet barely touched the surface of the subject!

I hope this makes sense....I'm very stoned bongsmilie and tend to ramble....hahaha

What a wonderful way of putting things, that does not leave a " bad taste " in anyones mouth my friend.

I stay away from debates myself, but the only thing I can really say is this; " There is no study or no false Science paper in the world or so-called genius, that will ever convince me to listen too something other than my body as my body and common sense never lie to me.

My body may be indeed more sensitive than most as I live a pretty chemical free life and everything I eat also is Raw and Organic.....I eat nothing refined or processed and I cured four incurable diseases by changing this part of my life friend and my health is extraordinary now and I never even get a sniffle.

When I partake of the Herb that has been grown with chemical fertilizers, there is no comparison to the way I feel, when I smoke and use my own Organics.

Just like there IS a difference between a Heirloom tomato and a GMO tomato, that has been grown chemically and genetics changed.

Those who refuse this common sense, can by their own means, but they are only short changing the true wisdom that they could obtain by working with nature and all Naturals for a better quality and healthy life.

As a Holistic Healer, I have seen these things and felt them for myself and the " Trees " are no exception, but that is all from me on this one friend, have a great day.

It was really hard for me also at one time to change everything, that I thought I knew about life and Nature.

However, I am glad I did and now I reap the benefits while so many others of my brothers and sisters are still sick and depending on the ignorance of culture to cure them.

Keep reading them studies or find the answer in your heart and through common sense, is what I say to anybody that would ask.

We all have choices and are entirely entitled to them and the results that those choices bring.

I am just glad that I chose life and health and learned to listen to my best friend in the world.....ME.

Be Blessed,

Rev. TheNatural
 

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
Zod, that was a great post. Must have taken forever to type it all up...

TheNatural, thanks for those pearls of wisdom.


In the spirit of this discussion I'm considering doing a side-by-side grow with some blue cheese clones I currently have in veg. So far they have been all organic, getting Fox Farm Big Bloom and BMO Grow it Green and Super Plant Tonic. I've got some Fox Farm Grow Big and Tiger Bloom inorganic fertilizers that I could use for 2 plants and continue the all organic grow with the other 2 plants and compare results...maybe make a journal out of it...

Anyway, Bump for more thoughts!
 

CrackerJax

New Member
yes it was a great post. I did not have the inclination to go that far... :lol:

I'm glad someone took the time...
 

mariapastor

Well-Known Member
We know that chemical nutes are bad for the inviroment if we are gonna go green might as well go all the way baby ... Organic makes scence
petrolium based nuted are bad for the earth pass it down
 
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