Amino Acids, Auxins and stuff

Corwin

Corwin

Active Member
In the ongoing effort not to give one red cent away if i don't have to, I have been looking for a substitute for Canna Boost.
Some on the web say it is made from (among other things) Triacontanol.
I am sure it contains a sugar as it says so right on the label so molasses would be my first choice.
Also Amino Acids, kelp and yucca extract not sure if that last one is in there but it is good stuff so in mine it goes.

Judging from the concentrations/ recommended rate of application I could make enough Boost substitute to last me a lifetime for a couple hundred dollars.

There is a site that sells some of the amino acids and other plant hormones, such as for rooting, called Super-Grow.

Anyone with experience with any of their other hormones such as, Indole Acetic Acid, Indole Butyric Acid, or Naphthalene Acetic Acid? I hate to use anything I am unsure of it's proper use.

They also sell Gibberellic Acid in a couple different forms.

http://www.super-grow.biz/Products.jsp

Corwin
 
Ichi

Ichi

Well-Known Member
I have been reading about using Triacontanol...well as much as I can find. I read a forum as well that mentioned something about it being an active in Canna Boost. I would assume it is probably the same stuff that is in the Dutch Master Penetrator and Liquid Light...well one of the two at least. I intend on using it as a foliar only on a few plants to see how it works. Subscribed to see how this works out for you. Please keep me updated. (sorry I just found this thread)
 
Corwin

Corwin

Active Member
Ichi said:
I have been reading about using Triacontanol...well as much as I can find. I read a forum as well that mentioned something about it being an active in Canna Boost. I would assume it is probably the same stuff that is in the Dutch Master Penetrator and Liquid Light...well one of the two at least. I intend on using it as a foliar only on a few plants to see how it works. Subscribed to see how this works out for you. Please keep me updated. (sorry I just found this thread)
Click to expand...

Yes it is widely believed that it is one of the most active ingredients in Boost, BudXL and others. Advanced Nutrients comes right out and tells you some of the ingredients of their Nirvana mix: Triacontanol, Seaweed (or Kelp), humic acid, Surfactants(they are using Chilean Soapbark, I am using Yucca extract), and Chitin.
http://www.advancednutrients.com/landing_pages/nirvana_organic_gardening.html


Almost the exact things I just bought from Canada.

I have just been using a common sense approach to my additives. I try not to go too heavy with the kelp or the molasses so I don't get critters eating it. Humic acid, a little goes a long way. I bought a fulvic, humic, kelp dry mix and used 2 lbs to 5/gal of water. That will last me a couple years at about 3ml/gal before I add any other nutes(except calmag). This acts as a buffer to keep everything in suspension and helps uptake of iron.

I am still using GH for my main nutes but all additives are now natural if not certified organic. Since my state my look down at certifing my product I haven't delved into the legal use of the word all organic yet. :mrgreen:

So far everything is looking good. I get a bit of nute burn from some strains but not too bad considering I am feeding seedlings at 800ppm same as all the other veg plants.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Corwin said:
In the ongoing effort not to give one red cent away if i don't have to, I have been looking for a substitute for Canna Boost.
Some on the web say it is made from (among other things) Triacontanol.
I am sure it contains a sugar as it says so right on the label so molasses would be my first choice.
Also Amino Acids, kelp and yucca extract not sure if that last one is in there but it is good stuff so in mine it goes.

Judging from the concentrations/ recommended rate of application I could make enough Boost substitute to last me a lifetime for a couple hundred dollars.

There is a site that sells some of the amino acids and other plant hormones, such as for rooting, called Super-Grow.

Anyone with experience with any of their other hormones such as, Indole Acetic Acid, Indole Butyric Acid, or Naphthalene Acetic Acid? I hate to use anything I am unsure of it's proper use.

They also sell Gibberellic Acid in a couple different forms.

http://www.super-grow.biz/Products.jsp

Corwin
Click to expand...
I am familiar with all of the mentioned hormones. Here is a ditty I wrote and posted years ago. Don't overdo it, and have a control group for the sake of education. I've found that any time you screw around with mama natur's drills she usually "settles accounts" and fukks you up some how. Sorry if you pissed off your money, but that's the way it goes around these parts. You can make gallons and gallon of tea containing triacontanol using a cheap sack of alfalfa cubes (for horses) available from feed stores. I've included its use in my soil recipe archive.

"Canna boost", that is funny. :) Only $103/liter at Amazon.com. When will you guys ever learn!? Most of this hawked stuff is expensive crap designed by cons to screw the noob. Plants do not need, may not benefit, from outside additions of amino acids, hormones, enzymes, etc. They make their own. Just because the vendor says it's so, doesn't mean squat. It's all about the money.

Enjoy.......

Triacontanol Links:

http://www.rdrop.com/~paul/alfalfa.html
You might want to try using alfalfa tea on your roses. Alfalfa releases triacontanol, an alcohol ester compound that acts as a growth stimulant. The alfalfa is not a food in the sense that nitrogen is, but it makes the uptake of nutrients more efficient. You'll have a dramatic increase in both growth, bloom, and overall vigour of the plant.

2 cups Alfalfa pellets or meal.
2.5 gal. water.
steep for 2-3 days covered.

Apply about a half gallon on your minis and a full gallon on your larger bushes about every 6-8 weeks. This is something that can be done in the garden at any time of the year without the usual concern of stimulating growth at inappropriate times, as you would with fertilizers.

http://www.minerva.at/search97cgi/s97_cgi?action=view&VdkVgwKey=/data4/laser/search/KO/htmldata/LSNr_305296/01676903_21_130417.html

The effects of a long chain aliphatic alcohol 1-triacontanol (TRIA) on the photosynthesis and membrane properties of mesophyll protoplasts and chloroplasts isolated from pea leaves were studied. In vitro treatments of isolated protoplasts caused a large enhancement (166 percent) of the CO2-fixation rate after 60 min of TRIA (10 ^-6 M) application as compared to the control. An enhanced photosynthetic response was observed in vitro treated leaf pieces. Application of octacosanol (OCTA) under the same experimental conditions did not result in any stimulating effects. In vivo treatments of pea seedlings also resulted in a significant increase of the net CO2 uptake to 109% and 119% in 10^-8 M and 10 ^-6 M TRIA-treated plants respectively.

http://www.healthy.net/library/journals/naturopathic/vol1no1/sativa.htm
Medicago sativa (alfalfa) also contains a plant growth stimulating substance identified as Triacontanol. When applied to crops it increases the growth and yield of several species. Applying 117kg of Alfalfa to a hectare of tomatoes increases yields by 10 metric tons per hectare.

http://www.bmi.net/roseguy/fbamend.html
Alfalfa - While at first glance it would appear that nitrogen is the big benefit from alfalfa (Meal: 5-1-2; Pellets: 14-4-8), with a good dose of iron and trace elements, the real benefit comes from a fatty acid alcohol called triacontanol which occurs naturally in the waxy surface of the plant’s leaves. Triacontanol is a root stimulant which, when used in small quantities, can increase yields in garden plots by 30 to 60%. It can be applied to roses straight out of the bag or box, or applied in an "alfalfa tea."

For direct application, sprinkle up to a cup of pellets, a half cup for miniatures, around each bush and water. The pellets then swell up and break apart. Then scratch the alfalfa into the soil or cover with mulch. If you leave the alfalfa on the surface, it will mold, and, when it dries, it will turn hard and crusty…work it in. Don’t use more than a cup, or its effectiveness will drop.

For alfalfa tea, add 10 to 12 cups of alfalfa pellets to a 32 gallon garbage can, add water, stir and steep for 2 or 3 hours to a couple of days. You can add 4 to 6 cups of Epsom salts and 8 ounces of fish fertilizer as a "fortifier", if you wish. Apply a gallon per bush, 1/3 gallon per miniature. Stir often to keep it mixed. You can pour the slurry on the bottom of the garbage can onto some of the roses, or add it to your vegetable garden.

50 lb bags can be purchased at farm & feed stores. Use once or twice a year.

http://www.vioryl.gr/products/agroactive_list.html
Check out “Gigamix” in their listing:
GIGAMIX EMULSION FOLIAR PRODUCT (11-1-1)+trace elements
Click to expand...
 
Corwin

Corwin

Active Member
UncleBen

I am well aware of where triacontanol comes from, you might be suprised it is contained in bees wax as well. As fart as making Teas from alfalfa meal, a much bigger crap shoot than using triacontanol that has been purified, as I will know what dose I am feeding. I have been collecting the information for about 6 months and slowly changing the additives I use. I found that Boost provided very good results in my last grow. I grew out 1000+ seeds and have clones from the original plants to grow the very same ones again this cycle. I guess maybe I wasn't as think as you stoned I am in chemistry class.

I am sure the few dollars I spent at the botanical chemist will be well worth it as I will learn from it regardless of the outcome.

Thanks for the warnings but I seem to be hell bent on destruction anyway, I will chose to be fearless even of "old timers" and publish my findings in this thread, the good, the bad and the ugly.
 
nikk

nikk

Active Member
oh im sorry corwin,nice thread i just wanted to say that your plants look beautiful and healthy also,can any of these recipes or a combo thereof be used in a dwc system?
 
Corwin

Corwin

Active Member
nikk said:
oh im sorry corwin,nice thread i just wanted to say that your plants look beautiful and healthy also,can any of these recipes or a combo thereof be used in a dwc system?
Click to expand...
I have never done DWC but i would assume that the nutes for one style of growing(hydro) will work with anther style. The big differences I am aware of are pH changes when using rockwool and High K numbers in coco right out of the bag.

From what I have heard there is nothing to crazy with the numbers that I am using. Humic and Fulvic acid should be used in moderation as you don't want to go to an extreme. I am using a 2lb bag of humic/fulvic/kelp/amino to 5 gal of water and then using 25ml of that per 5gal of my nute mix. I have not mixed up the other hormones yet as I still have a small amount of Canna Boost left and want to use it up first. This is about saving money after all.

According to the Lucas Formula you can grow with just about any nute if you keep the ratios to 100/100/200/60 (N/P/K/Mag). And GH supplies some of the micro nutes. I am a believer that plants are selective feeders and take what they need from the soup we feed them. If it is available in abundance and I don't create an imbalance where I have nute lockup or I am precipitating solids out of solution (salt buildup). Then every thing is good and the plant will use what it can and rest will become a waste product.

A good example of believing that our nutes have everything you need and the additives just being snake-oil being a fallacy is that sometimes strains have floppy stems that are too week to support the massive growth of bud. If we add silicates to the soup the plant will sometimes develop stronger stalks and support themselves.

This is not ditch weed and we the gardeners are making these plants what we want them to be. From the breeder who selects the traits that he/she desires to the grower who decides on how the plant will grow (sog, Scrog, Trees, Pinched, Pruned and Fimmed) to the exact spectrum of the light we give it, the temperatures it experiences, the makeup of the gasses it breathes.... We have made Mother Nature our bitch and that hoe needs to get out there and make me some money cause I need some new PS3 games!

Don't be afraid to try new things. They are just plants, they will tell ya straight what they like and don't like it is us that is the real variable in the equation. Will we see, taste, smell the differences and be able to become better breeders, growers and consumers.

Otherwise we might as well just grow rope.
 
nikk

nikk

Active Member
i heard noting but good things about the Lucas Formula,but unfortunately i had already bought the fox farm trio,dont get me wrong i like the results but i really want to go (almost)full organic,but i use dwc and one of the things i (kinda)value is easy clean up,sinse i dont have access to a yard i have no choice but to use dwc(no complaints tho)but i really wanna taste truly cared for organic bud
 
Corwin

Corwin

Active Member
nikk said:
i heard noting but good things about the Lucas Formula,but unfortunately i had already bought the fox farm trio,dont get me wrong i like the results but i really want to go (almost)full organic,but i use dwc and one of the things i (kinda)value is easy clean up,sinse i dont have access to a yard i have no choice but to use dwc(no complaints tho)but i really wanna taste truly cared for organic bud
Click to expand...

Totally understand. The only reason I mention Lucas is it is a good place to start to understand the NPK values and why we use them. The products I refer to are naturally occurring plant extracts for the most part with chitosin coming from shellfish. I would like to end up using an organic system as I feel it best to use the fewest resources possible and don't like to mask grow problems with bug spray or anti fungals and such.
 
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