Help the illegals get Social Security, Thanks Bush!

medicineman

New Member
U.S.-Mexico Pact Revealed: Billions to Non-citizens
Dave Eberhart
Newsmax
Friday, January 5, 2007

WASHINGTON -- As a result of lawsuits, the U.S. government released this week the actual U.S.-Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement, an understanding signed between the Bush administration and the Mexican government in 2004 that would funnel billions of Social Security funds to Mexican citizens. TREA Senior Citizens League, a Washington-based nonpartisan seniors group, announced this week that after Freedom of Information Act lawsuits it filed against the government, it had received the secret agreement document.
Brad Phillips, a spokesperson for TREA, told NewsMax that the language in the agreement "raises more questions than it answers — such as what is the cost and who is going to pay."
The GAO has already warned that as a result of this agreement, the number of unauthorized Mexican workers and family members eligible for social security benefits will likely increase.
The Dreaded Loophole
TREA and other watchdog groups were hopeful that the agreement would directly address, and perhaps even moot, the hot-button issue of illegal immigrants at some point claiming U.S. Social Security benefits.
"A law called the Social Security Protection Act of 2004 forbids illegal immigrants from claiming Social Security benefits — but a loophole exists," Phillips explained.
"If an immigrant gains what's called a valid ‘work-authorized' Social Security number at some point, then he or she could eventually file a claim for benefits. The government would use all earnings to calculate the retirement benefit — even earnings while working illegally," Phillips added.
The U.S. commissioner of Social Security signed the agreement with the director general of the Mexican Social Security Institute on June 29, 2004. TREA has fought to make it public for over three and a half years, according to a press release from the organization.
In the meantime, the agreement has been slowly making its way through mandated reviews by the State Department and the White House. Once the White House submits it to Congress, lawmakers will have 60 legislative days to review it.
Either chamber may vote to pass a Resolution of Disapproval of the agreement — or it will take effect automatically at the end of the 60-day period. Furthermore, the Mexican Senate must affirmatively approve the totalization agreement.
In general, totalization agreements are between the United States and other countries to coordinate their respective Social Security programs. For instance, such agreements typically work to eliminate the need to pay Social Security taxes in both countries — when companies in one country send workers to the other country. Also they are crafted to protect benefit eligibility for workers who split their working careers between the two countries.
According to TREA, if an illegal worker working in the United States today gets a "work authorized" Social Security number — through guest-worker immigration legislation, the Totalization Agreement, or perhaps just over time — that worker could eventually apply for Social Security benefits once the worker has met eligibility requirements.
Unfair Advantage
For example, say TREA officials, a worker who turns 62 after 1990 generally needs 40 calendar quarters of coverage to receive retirement benefits. Under Totalization Agreements, workers are allowed to combine earnings from both countries in order to qualify for benefits.
The agreement with Mexico, like other Totalization Agreements, would allow workers to qualify with just six quarters, or 18 months, of U.S. coverage.
In addition, advised TREA, that worker could be able to claim credits for work performed while in the United States illegally. The SSA maintains an "earnings suspense file," which tracks wages that cannot be posted to individual workers' records because there is no match for a name and Social Security number.
Once an immigrant gains access to a work authorized Social Security number — whether a legal citizen or not — wages earned while in the United States unlawfully could be reinstated to the worker's new Social Security account, warned TREA officers.
Such writing-on-the-wall concerns are not just being sounded by TREA, however.
Warnings by the GAO
In a recent special report to Congress, the GAO voiced a number of issues latent in the agreement:
SSA has no written policies or procedures it follows when entering into Totalization Agreements, and the actions it took to assess the integrity and compatibility of Mexico's Social Security system were limited and neither transparent nor well-documented.
SSA provided no information showing that it assessed the reliability of Mexican earnings data and the internal controls used to ensure the integrity of information that SSA will rely on to pay Social Security benefits.
The proposed agreement will likely increase the number of unauthorized Mexican workers and family members eligible for Social Security benefits. Mexican workers who ordinarily could not receive Social Security retirement benefits because they lack the required 40 coverage credits for U.S. earnings could qualify for partial Social Security benefits with as few as 6 coverage credits.
Under the proposed agreement, more family members of covered Mexican workers would become newly entitled because the agreements usually waive rules that prevent payments to non-citizens' dependents and survivors living outside the U.S.
The cost of such an agreement is highly uncertain. In March 2003, the Office of the Chief Actuary estimated that the cost of the Mexican agreement would be $78 million in the first year and would grow to $650 million (in constant 2002 dollars) in 2050. The actuarial cost estimate assumes the initial number of newly eligible Mexican beneficiaries is equivalent to the 50,000 beneficiaries living in Mexico today and would grow six-fold over time.
This proxy figure (above) does not directly consider the estimated millions of current and former unauthorized workers and family members from Mexico and appears small in comparison with those estimates. The estimate also inherently assumes that the behavior of Mexican citizens would not change and does not recognize that an agreement would create an additional incentive for unauthorized workers to enter the United States to work and maintain documentation to claim their earnings under a false identity.
An analysis performed at the GAO's request shows that a measurable impact would occur with an increase of more than 25 percent in the estimate of initial, new beneficiaries. For prior agreements, error rates associated with estimating the expected number of new beneficiaries have frequently exceeded 25 percent, even in cases where uncertainties about the number of unauthorized workers were less prevalent.
Because of the significant number of unauthorized Mexican workers in the United States, the estimated cost of the proposed totalization agreement is even more uncertain than in prior agreements.
Playing by the Rules
"The Social Security Administration itself warns that Social Security is within decades of bankruptcy — yet, they seem to have no problem making agreements that hasten its demise," said Ralph McCutchen, chairman of TREA.
"Our 1.2 million elderly members didn't play by the rules and sacrifice through difficult times so we could fund millions of workers who crossed the border and decided to work here illegally," McCutchen added.
TREA officers also warn that Mexico's retirement system is radically different than that of other participating countries.
For example, only 40 percent of non-government workers participate in Mexico's system, whereas 96 percent of America's non-government workers do. In addition, the U.S. system is progressive, meaning lower wage earners get back much more than they put in; in Mexico, workers get back only what they put in, plus accrued interest.
Uncovering the Ugly Truth
"I applaud the persistent efforts of TREA Senior Citizens League to try to get documents from the U.S. government about the U.S.-Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement," said Rep. Walter Jones, R-N.C. "The American people are finally beginning to get some of the information regarding this Agreement that they have been seeking for so long."
According to the Social Security Administration, the Social Security Trust Fund will begin paying out more than it is taking in by 2017, and will be exhausted by the year 2040.
Phillips noted that [before the emergence of the agreement] "the Administration always called it ludicrous to suggest that illegal immigrants could get their hands on our Social Security."
"We not hearing that anymore," Phillips lamented.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Sounds to me Like Bush bought a whole lot of Mexican votes during the 2005 election.
Can you say Treason? I knew you could. :rolleyes:
 

ViRedd

New Member
Uhhhh ... I think its the Democrats who are relying on the Hispanic vote. The Republicans are relying on illegals to beef up America's slave class. Like I keep saying ... both parties suck.

Vi
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
This is BushCos greatest blunder.....there is something totally inscrutable about this whole attitude towards Mexico....no border security and preferential Social Security treatment......

Both parties are well beyond the "sucks" stage.....they are more like a huge, seeping, malignant tumor on the body politic.
Radical surgery is needed....stat!
 

medicineman

New Member
Both parties are well beyond the "sucks" stage.....they are more like a huge, seeping, malignant tumor on the body politic.
Radical surgery is needed....stat! We've at last come to an agreement. The only thing is, without complete insurection, how do we change it. The only thing we can do is vote the least reprehensible candidates in, I know it's a raw deal, but the only deal, and by the way, exactly what I've been saying, vote for the lessor of the two evils!
 

ViRedd

New Member
The lesser of two evils is still evil.

The open borders will end as soon as the majority of Americans see it as a problem and become passionate about it.

Vi
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
I wonder what it is going to take to motivate the voting taxpayers to ratchet up the collective intensity of their outrage.
Unfortunately, I think it is going to take something truly horrific in nature to get us off our plump rumps!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Well, the State of California has just broken the news that over 100,000 births to illegal alien women over the past twelve months were paid for with taxpayer money through MediCal. We have hospitals closing their emergency rooms because they cannot abide with federal law which mandates that ANYONE can recieve emergency treatment at any emergency room in spite of no insurance. And proof of citizenship ... that's WAY too controversial and politically incorrect. The population of the country is over 300 milliion and growing. Traffic in populated areas is at a standstill. The president of Mexico stands at the border and spits on our border guards. Mayby the time will be sooner rather than later. We can only hope.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Well, the State of California has just broken the news that over 100,000 births to illegal alien women over the past twelve months were paid for with taxpayer money through MediCal. We have hospitals closing their emergency rooms because they cannot abide with federal law which mandates that ANYONE can recieve emergency treatment at any emergency room in spite of no insurance. And proof of citizenship ... that's WAY too controversial and politically incorrect. The population of the country is over 300 milliion and growing. Traffic in populated areas is at a standstill. The president of Mexico stands at the border and spits on our border guards. Mayby the time will be sooner rather than later. We can only hope.

Vi
Actually, I'm in full agreement with both of you on the illegal thing. You guys label me a bleeding heart liberal and I've been telling you I'm not. I'm for Americans, all of them, rich and poor. We just see different ways of attaining this America we all love. I am for the well endowed sharing their wealth with the lessor endowed, A real tradgedy in your two guys eyes!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Yeah, well you'll enjoy this I'm sure, Med;

Ahhhnold, the gov of california is supporting legislation that would guarantee medical insurance to every man, woman and child in California. INCLUDING those who are here illegally.

Move over Med ... the housing market will be picking up real soon in Nevada!

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Yeah, well you'll enjoy this I'm sure, Med;

Ahhhnold, the gov of california is supporting legislation that would guarantee medical insurance to every man, woman and child in California. INCLUDING those who are here illegally.

Move over Med ... the housing market will be picking up real soon in Nevada!

Vi
What happens in California Is the precursor to what happens in Nevada, Actually this is Calif. North. The Idiots from California have moved here and brought all the bad things with them, High property prices and taxes, Illegals for the housing boom, Stinking traffic Jams, Smog, All the reasons I left there in '89' for are now here! Time to move the fuck out, I can't get my wife to leave!~lol~
 

ViRedd

New Member
After spending three days in Las Vegas this past week, I don't blame you one bit for wanting to get out. My buddy said it quite correctly when we were there. He described Las Vegas as a "gold plated turd in the middle of the desert."

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
After spending three days in Las Vegas this past week, I don't blame you one bit for wanting to get out. My buddy said it quite correctly when we were there. He described Las Vegas as a "gold plated turd in the middle of the desert."

Vi
Hey Vi, good to see you back. The site was rather boring without you! Yeah your right Vegas is a turd. Used to be a downright nice little town when the mob ran the place. since the corporations have taken over, it's turned into a "turd". You should have gone to richland, towards the hills in any direction. There are castles up there that you could only imagine. Makes hollywood hills look like the slums. If you went west of Rainbow ave., 99% of that has been built in the last ten years. There are estates with there own private lakes and golf courses...... Lakes in the desert with the worst drought in the history of Vegas, Genius!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Gawd! The traffic was even worse this year than last. The construction never ends. I bet the Mob still has control of the constuction unions in Vegas. Its one giant make work program. I kept getting lost. I ended up in Henderson one night when all I wanted to do was get back to my hotel for some sleep.

Now, back to the topic at hand ...

I read in today's paper that the state (Calif) want to pay for the new "Insurance for All" program by taxing doctors 2% of their gross and hospitals 4% of their gross ... prior to paying any other taxes. The doctors are already threatening to leave the state if this insurance bill passes. So ... advantage to you, Med ... you're gonna get a nice influx of doctors. With the increased competition among Nevada doctors, you, and other Nevadians should be getting a break on your medical costs. Like I keep saying ... the free market rules and whenever government interfers with it, there are unintended consequences that must be paid.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Gawd! The traffic was even worse this year than last. The construction never ends. I bet the Mob still has control of the constuction unions in Vegas. Its one giant make work program. I kept getting lost. I ended up in Henderson one night when all I wanted to do was get back to my hotel for some sleep.

Now, back to the topic at hand ...

I read in today's paper that the state (Calif) want to pay for the new "Insurance for All" program by taxing doctors 2% of their gross and hospitals 4% of their gross ... prior to paying any other taxes. The doctors are already threatening to leave the state if this insurance bill passes. So ... advantage to you, Med ... you're gonna get a nice influx of doctors. With the increased competition among Nevada doctors, you, and other Nevadians should be getting a break on your medical costs. Like I keep saying ... the free market rules and whenever government interfers with it, there are unintended consequences that must be paid.

Vi
I don't see any exodus happening, they'll just up the ante, besides we can use some obstetrics and gynocological Dr.s and pediatricians as they've all gone to Calif. because of high Insurance!
 

ViRedd

New Member
I don't see any exodus happening, they'll just up the ante, besides we can use some obstetrics and gynocological Dr.s and pediatricians as they've all gone to Calif. because of high Insurance!

And what has caused that insurance to be so high? These were the exact people who were attacked with frivolous law suits by none other than John Edwards. He made hundreds of millions off of these suits and OB doctors have left the field in droves because of him. California has a shortage of these docs too ... because they have left the speciality for other areas of medicine. And as far as no exodus is concerned, check out the numbers of Canadian doctors who left Canada in the 60s when Canada went to a socialized medical system.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
I don't see any exodus happening, they'll just up the ante, besides we can use some obstetrics and gynocological Dr.s and pediatricians as they've all gone to Calif. because of high Insurance!

And what has caused that insurance to be so high? These were the exact people who were attacked with frivolous law suits by none other than John Edwards. He made hundreds of millions off of these suits and OB doctors have left the field in droves because of him. California has a shortage of these docs too ... because they have left the speciality for other areas of medicine. And as far as no exodus is concerned, check out the numbers of Canadian doctors who left Canada in the 60s when Canada went to a socialized medical system.

Vi
I Get it, what your saying is all the greedy bastards left, and the serious conscientious Doctors stayed to take care of the patients. I'd rather have 1 good DR. than ten greed mongers and have to wait for longer in the waiting room. My Dr. went to a controlled clientel by charging 3,000 per year in addition to all insurance money for the priveledge to have him as your Dr. I thought this was greed and voiced my opiniom to his affiliate and was surprised to find out it was his way of semi-retiring (also for eliminating all the medicare riff-raff like me). This country needs a single payer Medical system. All you rich folk will still have the greedy Dr.s to go to as they will do like My Dr. did and charge you a fee to belong to his practice, so you will get the special treatment you have always gotten. There will be a supply and demand situation among the Dr.s. Not all of them will be able to have the private practices for rich folk, as there arent that many rich folk, the rest will be the doctors for the people, a very admirable profession! Now as for the illegals, Fuck them! I'll guarantee if an American citizen goes to Mexico and demands treatment, they will laugh him out of the country. Mexicans need to go back to Mexico and get their country straight. The abismal border security needs to be fixed and the illegals put out of work! We need to start Jailing company execs. that have illegals working for them. Maybe you rich dicks won't need social security when you retire, but the vast majority of Americans will, so we don't need to start giving it to illegals, period!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Well, when the chafe is seperated from the wheat, I'd rather have a surgeon who is ego driven than one who is nothing more than a controlled, oppressed, income limited, government bureaucrat operating on me.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Well, when the chafe is seperated from the wheat, I'd rather have a surgeon who is ego driven than one who is nothing more than a controlled, oppressed, income limited, government bureaucrat operating on me.

Vi
And as I have stated, You will be afforded that luxury even with a single payer system as there will be plenty of Ego driven Dr.s who won't participate in the program and you can have your pick. Just for referance, answer me this: say you get a disease that will cost you a million or two for treatment or you will surely die, would you consider going on the state funded plan or would you spend your life savings going to the Ego driven Doctors?
 

Nimbliez

Well-Known Member
I would die. I don't play the doctor game. Haven't been to a doc in 16 years. If I come down with something incurable, so be it. I'm toast. just cover me up and go about yer lives. I trust my own judgment about my health vs. any doctor. I feel they are ONLY in it for the money, and could give a rat's patoot if you live or die. Study medicine for a few years, and you could eliminate doctors from your life. I did, and am that much richer for it.
Peace
 
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