Dystopia's PPP 250w VScrOG
- Thread starter Dystopia
- Start date
diggitydank420
Well-Known Member
I have to say that I am seriously considering putting my current tent into mom/clone duty and getting myself a 4x4 tent and some PVC tubing.
I LOVE what you're doing with that 250W dystopia!
I LOVE what you're doing with that 250W dystopia!
Dystopia
Active Member
Thanks! One of the prerequisites, I think, for using a screen is easy access to all sides of the screen. That's why I put the entire setup on a stand with wheels - so I could easily pull it out of it's cubbyhole and get to all sides to train the plants. In a 4' X 4' tent, where I didn't ever want to take the plants out, I suppose I would modify my unit so that the entire thing rotated in place, and all I had to do would be to turn it to get to the side I wanted.
But if I was not going to have easy access to all sides I would either do it SOG-style like Heath Robinson's https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/149998-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical.html, or if I couldn't do that many plants, then I would probably try to grow trees - which means no less than 600 watts, and probably more in my opinion. Something like I described back on page 14...
You may have noticed that I put some reflective material like an umbrella over the top of the lights and canopy...coupled with the side panels I have essentially created a tent with the light smack in the middle.
Dystopia
Active Member
Let me expand a little bit on my beliefs about growing trees versus methods like SOG or ScrOG; again, this applies to a single-source HID (and not multiple lights).
First and foremost, the ability to grow trees in large part is dictated by the amount of light you are providing and how it is distributed. In the last tutorial I said that I would not top if I was growing outdoors, where the same amount of light is available to the entire plant. Those secondary branches that I was chopping off because they weren't getting enough light under my 250-watt light would be getting plenty of light outdoors; there would be no reason to chop them.
If you are going to try to grow trees indoors, you need to try to provide enough light so that the entire plant - from top to bottom and outside to in - is receiving enough light so that all of these secondary branches are able to develop and increase yield. This is why I say you need, at a minimum, 600-watts to grow trees. A 600-watt bulb, if hung vertically, will supply enough light to grow trees 4-5 feet tall, with 22" of penetration.
So if I was growing a tree, I would take my "flower box", flip it vertically, and grow my entire plant inside the box. So, in a 4' x 4' tent it might look like this:
I would use four plants, one in each corner, and I would not top and would only do minimal training to keep the plant growing inside the box and around the light. The only thing I would really have to worry about would be how tall the plants get; I would have to time my flip to 12/12 so that they don’t get too tall.
I personally believe that if you're growing with a 400-watt or less light then you need to train your plant extensively to maximize the light (or grow a true SOG). If you are using 600 watts or above, and have the room, then your options increase...if you can grow tons of plants then do it SOG-style. If you're limited on plant numbers, and your light is hung horizontally, then train your plants to maintain a level canopy via LST or ScrOG. Or, if you can hang your light vertically, grow trees to maximize yield.
First and foremost, the ability to grow trees in large part is dictated by the amount of light you are providing and how it is distributed. In the last tutorial I said that I would not top if I was growing outdoors, where the same amount of light is available to the entire plant. Those secondary branches that I was chopping off because they weren't getting enough light under my 250-watt light would be getting plenty of light outdoors; there would be no reason to chop them.
If you are going to try to grow trees indoors, you need to try to provide enough light so that the entire plant - from top to bottom and outside to in - is receiving enough light so that all of these secondary branches are able to develop and increase yield. This is why I say you need, at a minimum, 600-watts to grow trees. A 600-watt bulb, if hung vertically, will supply enough light to grow trees 4-5 feet tall, with 22" of penetration.
So if I was growing a tree, I would take my "flower box", flip it vertically, and grow my entire plant inside the box. So, in a 4' x 4' tent it might look like this:
I would use four plants, one in each corner, and I would not top and would only do minimal training to keep the plant growing inside the box and around the light. The only thing I would really have to worry about would be how tall the plants get; I would have to time my flip to 12/12 so that they don’t get too tall.
I personally believe that if you're growing with a 400-watt or less light then you need to train your plant extensively to maximize the light (or grow a true SOG). If you are using 600 watts or above, and have the room, then your options increase...if you can grow tons of plants then do it SOG-style. If you're limited on plant numbers, and your light is hung horizontally, then train your plants to maintain a level canopy via LST or ScrOG. Or, if you can hang your light vertically, grow trees to maximize yield.
"I would have to time my flip to 12/12 so that they don’t get too tall."
How would you do this?
This grow & last grow, the plants grew to 48" (+ 12" for the bucket). Then add another 6" for the light spacing and the light ends up 5.5' above the floor or 4.5' from the base of the plant. This is why I trimmed(lollipopped) the lower 1/3.
Hanging a vertical 600W HPS in the center of the tent, would that allow for enough lighting behind the plants(I do have all walls lined with mylar)? I see your results, but you're not concerned about back lighting since your bud sites are focused into the middle(nice!).
Thanks
How would you do this?
This grow & last grow, the plants grew to 48" (+ 12" for the bucket). Then add another 6" for the light spacing and the light ends up 5.5' above the floor or 4.5' from the base of the plant. This is why I trimmed(lollipopped) the lower 1/3.
Hanging a vertical 600W HPS in the center of the tent, would that allow for enough lighting behind the plants(I do have all walls lined with mylar)? I see your results, but you're not concerned about back lighting since your bud sites are focused into the middle(nice!).
Thanks
Dystopia
Active Member
Ahhhh...a perfect lead-in to my next tutorial, which will deal with vegetating and timing the flip.
In short, though, it basically amounts to this: with a horizontally-hung light your plants should really get no taller then the vertical penetration your light will support.
With a vertically-hung light, your plants should get no taller than the horizontal footprint your light will support.
There are many factors to consider when timing the flip, but in general I would say the following for a horizontally-hung light:
1. In a true SOG (2-4 plants per sqare foot) I would flip to 12/12 immediately if I was using clones, or after week 2 if I was growing from seed. The stretch will fill in the vertical part of the "flower-box".
2. In a simulated SOG (fewer plants topped to provide 2-4 main growing tops per square foot) I would flip to 12/12 within one week of topping. Generally, I top in week 2 from seed, so I would flip shortly thereafter. Once again, the stretch will fill up the box.
3. If I was training my plants horizontally using LST or a screen, then I would vegetate long enough to fill about 1/2 of the horizontal area and then flip. It's much harder to time the flip when you're training the plants in a screen.
I talked a little bit about back-lighting in post #110 on page 11: https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/256847-dystopias-ppp-250w-vscrog-11.html
Basically, the side panels that I use do provide much backlighting, as can be evidenced from the stretch sequence on page 9, post #88 (note that the front did not have a panel for back-lighting): https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/256847-dystopias-ppp-250w-vscrog-9.html
polishfalcon420
Well-Known Member
I love to read your theories on things dys always lots of logic. I started a new thread on my RDWC setup and could use some advice when you get a chance if you could. heres a link https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/266716-falcons-og-18-k-train.html. Im not sure whats wrong if anything maybe its just lack of patience.
cackpircings
Well-Known Member
They look Great dude love the set up +rep... Keep on keepn on
MostlyCrazy
New Member
Only find bake arounds on e-bay for the most part. I have the same set-up but you have a better ballast. Mine's only HPS and it's the HTG version. The cool tube is solid.
Hulk Nugs
Well-Known Member
Hey man not sure if you have any craft stores but they normaly have that stuff.
Like Michales craft store.
I had a huge light bulb and the bakearound and the hurricane were to small so i just bought a huge flower vase and then went to homedepot and got a class cutter, cut the bottom to the vase and bam now the vase can be used for a cooltube.
Like Michales craft store.
I had a huge light bulb and the bakearound and the hurricane were to small so i just bought a huge flower vase and then went to homedepot and got a class cutter, cut the bottom to the vase and bam now the vase can be used for a cooltube.
MostlyCrazy
New Member
I don't think the metal pieces can be removed nor would I want to. That's what I attach the duct work to.
