The ECONOMICS of Health Care (part 3)
- Thread starter CrackerJax
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natrone23
Well-Known Member
Were talking about healthcare and this guys cites articles about New Jersey governors race
Were talking about healthcare and this guys cites articles about New Jersey governors race
londonfog
Well-Known Member
WTF is this bullshit..I'm talking about you saying that 45% doctors would retire if healthcare pass....you post election shit WTF.....again Cracker do you have any proof about doctors retiring if health care passes...( Again folks we wait ...hopefully he won't try to give us a link to walmart...if any)
his proof is the same proof I can offer that 30% of americans said they would move to another country if Obama won. I can offer PROOF that a family considered moving to costa rica if obama won...
guess what, they talked and talked, Obama won and they didn't go anywhere..... it's all part of the none sense propaganda he's trying to sell...
just like those people, these doctor's ain't retiring if new health care bill passes, and if it just so happens that more doctors retire now, it has to do more with demographics than the law passing, since a bunch of baby boomers are gonna retire anyways in the next 10-15 years.... using this coincidence I could argue that 30% of all managers, chefs, janitors and lawyers are retiring because of healthcare, when in reality they are retiring because it's their time.....
guess what, they talked and talked, Obama won and they didn't go anywhere..... it's all part of the none sense propaganda he's trying to sell...
just like those people, these doctor's ain't retiring if new health care bill passes, and if it just so happens that more doctors retire now, it has to do more with demographics than the law passing, since a bunch of baby boomers are gonna retire anyways in the next 10-15 years.... using this coincidence I could argue that 30% of all managers, chefs, janitors and lawyers are retiring because of healthcare, when in reality they are retiring because it's their time.....
CrackerJax
New Member
I can't help it if ur uninformed. Inform urselves.... it's embarrassing.
The country is swinging away from you........see if you can catch up.
The country is swinging away from you........see if you can catch up.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
Just hate when people have to lie or use false information to try to score a point..Pretty stupid when in this day and age you can check any info just like that.....Its like when you see these teabaggers at their rally most are so clueless to whats really going on it makes you a shame to live in the same country as these retards....poor sheeple
CrackerJax
New Member
Don't knock urself too much.
londonfog
Well-Known Member
what I tell you guys...he never back up his statement just come with the same old tired BS...Dude just needs attention..LAME and exposed...need to mark this tread so I can link back to it to show just how lame this guy is..You a joke Cracker
CrackerJax
New Member
Blah blah blah..... and ur always on the wrong end of every issue.
http://leftandrightpolitics.com/45-of-doctors-might-quit-if-obama-care-passes/
http://leftandrightpolitics.com/45-of-doctors-might-quit-if-obama-care-passes/
ViRedd
New Member
Yeppers ... I went to a lecture about two weeks ago where nine doctors addressed the proposed health care reform. Only one doctor was for the change, and she, unlike the other seven doctors present, did not run her own practice. The other seven each said that they would consider retiring early. They also said that if the federal government cuts back on Medicare payments any further, they would stop seeing Medicare patients. Another point they made was ... many students presently enrolled in medical school would probably quit. There reasoning was ... why invest in all of that education, time and money if all one would become is a government bureaucrat with the fancy title of "Doctor?"
londonfog
Well-Known Member
well at least your lame self posted a link...but let us follow the link from its true source.
Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.
The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby the powerful American Medical Association both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.
It also calls into question whether an overhaul is even doable; 72% of the doctors polled disagree with the administration's claim that the government can cover 47 million more people with better-quality care at lower cost.
The IBD/TIPP Poll was conducted by mail the past two weeks, with 1,376 practicing physicians chosen randomly throughout the country taking part. Responses are still coming in, and doctors' positions on related topics including the impact of an overhaul on senior care, medical school applications and drug development will be covered later in this series.
Major findings included:
Two-thirds, or 65%, of doctors say they oppose the proposed government expansion plan. This contradicts the administration's claims that doctors are part of an "unprecedented coalition" supporting a medical overhaul.
It also differs with findings of a poll released Monday by National Public Radio that suggests a "majority of physicians want public and private insurance options," and clashes with media reports such as Tuesday's front-page story in the Los Angeles Times with the headline "Doctors Go For Obama's Reform."
Nowhere in the Times story does it say doctors as a whole back the overhaul. It says only that the AMA the "association representing the nation's physicians" and what "many still regard as the country's premier lobbying force" is "lobbying and advertising to win public support for President Obama's sweeping plan."
The AMA, in fact, represents approximately 18% of physicians and has been hit with a number of defections by members opposed to the AMA's support of Democrats' proposed health care overhaul.
Four of nine doctors, or 45%, said they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passes the plan the Democratic majority and White House have in mind.
More than 800,000 doctors were practicing in 2006, the government says. Projecting the poll's finding onto that population, 360,000 doctors would consider quitting...
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199
Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.
The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby the powerful American Medical Association both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.
It also calls into question whether an overhaul is even doable; 72% of the doctors polled disagree with the administration's claim that the government can cover 47 million more people with better-quality care at lower cost.
The IBD/TIPP Poll was conducted by mail the past two weeks, with 1,376 practicing physicians chosen randomly throughout the country taking part. Responses are still coming in, and doctors' positions on related topics including the impact of an overhaul on senior care, medical school applications and drug development will be covered later in this series.
Major findings included:
Two-thirds, or 65%, of doctors say they oppose the proposed government expansion plan. This contradicts the administration's claims that doctors are part of an "unprecedented coalition" supporting a medical overhaul.
It also differs with findings of a poll released Monday by National Public Radio that suggests a "majority of physicians want public and private insurance options," and clashes with media reports such as Tuesday's front-page story in the Los Angeles Times with the headline "Doctors Go For Obama's Reform."
Nowhere in the Times story does it say doctors as a whole back the overhaul. It says only that the AMA the "association representing the nation's physicians" and what "many still regard as the country's premier lobbying force" is "lobbying and advertising to win public support for President Obama's sweeping plan."
The AMA, in fact, represents approximately 18% of physicians and has been hit with a number of defections by members opposed to the AMA's support of Democrats' proposed health care overhaul.
Four of nine doctors, or 45%, said they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passes the plan the Democratic majority and White House have in mind.
More than 800,000 doctors were practicing in 2006, the government says. Projecting the poll's finding onto that population, 360,000 doctors would consider quitting...
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199
londonfog
Well-Known Member
1. The survey was conducted by mail, which is unusual. The only other mail-based poll that I'm aware of is that conducted by the Columbus Dispatch, which was associated with an average error of about 7 percentage points -- the highest of any pollster that we tested.
2. At least one of the questions is blatantly biased: "Do you believe the government can cover 47 million more people and it will cost less money and th quality of care will be better?". Holy run-on-sentence, Batman? A pollster who asks a question like this one is not intending to be objective.
3. As we learned during the Presidntial campaign -- when, among other things, they had John McCain winning the youth vote 74-22 -- the IBD/TIPP polling operation has literally no idea what they're doing. I mean, literally none. For example, I don't trust IBD/TIPP to have competently selected anything resembling a random panel, which is harder to do than you'd think.
4. They say, somewhat ambiguously: "Responses are still coming in." This is also highly unorthodox. Professional pollsters generally do not report results before the survey period is compete.
5. There is virtually no disclosure about methodology. For example, IBD doesn't bother to define the term "practicing physician", which could mean almost anything. Nor do they explain how their randomization procedure worked, provide the entire question battery, or anything like that.
My advice would be to completely ignore this poll. There are pollsters out there that have an agenda but are highly competent, and there are pollsters that are nonpartisan but not particularly skilled. Rarely, however, do you find the whole package: that special pollster which is both biased and inept. IBD/TIPP is one of the few exceptions.
2. At least one of the questions is blatantly biased: "Do you believe the government can cover 47 million more people and it will cost less money and th quality of care will be better?". Holy run-on-sentence, Batman? A pollster who asks a question like this one is not intending to be objective.
3. As we learned during the Presidntial campaign -- when, among other things, they had John McCain winning the youth vote 74-22 -- the IBD/TIPP polling operation has literally no idea what they're doing. I mean, literally none. For example, I don't trust IBD/TIPP to have competently selected anything resembling a random panel, which is harder to do than you'd think.
4. They say, somewhat ambiguously: "Responses are still coming in." This is also highly unorthodox. Professional pollsters generally do not report results before the survey period is compete.
5. There is virtually no disclosure about methodology. For example, IBD doesn't bother to define the term "practicing physician", which could mean almost anything. Nor do they explain how their randomization procedure worked, provide the entire question battery, or anything like that.
My advice would be to completely ignore this poll. There are pollsters out there that have an agenda but are highly competent, and there are pollsters that are nonpartisan but not particularly skilled. Rarely, however, do you find the whole package: that special pollster which is both biased and inept. IBD/TIPP is one of the few exceptions.
anyone who wants data that is actually representative about the population wants a survey or a poll...
surveys or polls are very valuable tools in the modern world, and properly executed polls WILL provide you with accurate estimates on the actual feelings of the whole population without the cost of having to ask every single person.
the problem is that statistics itself manipulates raw data to come to conclusions, and it is all too easy to reach wrong conclusions...
practicing physicians is a vague term, has to be better defined,
the questionnaire apparantely wasn't well designed. each question asks one thing, not two, that leads to misleading results...
polls by mail are done frequently, the problem is getting people to answer back....
normally polls will offer a little gift or something to get you to answer back...
drawing conclusions from a sample of 10 doctors is ignorant at best...
the minimum number you need is 30 to draw valid conclusions, 300+ to have levels of error that are cnsidered acceptable....
surveys or polls are very valuable tools in the modern world, and properly executed polls WILL provide you with accurate estimates on the actual feelings of the whole population without the cost of having to ask every single person.
the problem is that statistics itself manipulates raw data to come to conclusions, and it is all too easy to reach wrong conclusions...
practicing physicians is a vague term, has to be better defined,
the questionnaire apparantely wasn't well designed. each question asks one thing, not two, that leads to misleading results...
polls by mail are done frequently, the problem is getting people to answer back....
normally polls will offer a little gift or something to get you to answer back...
drawing conclusions from a sample of 10 doctors is ignorant at best...
the minimum number you need is 30 to draw valid conclusions, 300+ to have levels of error that are cnsidered acceptable....
CrackerJax
New Member
Oooo, it's from IBD, one of the most respected newspapers in the country... but get ready for slews of doctors quitting if it passes... (it won't....this version is the worst so far).
CrackerJax
New Member
ZOGBY: LIKELY VOTERS OPPOSE OBAMACARE
A Zogby International poll shows that, when asked about specifics, likely voters hate Obamacare. Here are some highlights:
A Zogby International poll shows that, when asked about specifics, likely voters hate Obamacare. Here are some highlights:
70% disapprove of a law requiring people to buy health insurance.
75% say taxes shouldnt be raised to fund the public option.
78% favor tort reform to rein in frivolous medical lawsuits.
77% oppose taxing employer-provided health insurance benefits.
This is very bad news for the Democrats and their attempt to impose what they hilariously call health care reform on the country. As Jennifer Rubin puts it:75% say taxes shouldnt be raised to fund the public option.
78% favor tort reform to rein in frivolous medical lawsuits.
77% oppose taxing employer-provided health insurance benefits.
Likely voters seem to hate ObamaCare a lot more than do Americans generally (who may not even be registered to vote)
Any lawmaker whose seat is unsafe might want to mull that over.
And it gets worse. Theres another important group that is not looking forward to reform: physicians. An IBD/TIPP poll finds that 45% of doctors would consider quitting if Obamacare becomes law:
Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted.
Interesting that these independent polls seem to conflict with propaganda we have been getting from the White House, Congress, and most of the news media.