Who wants bigger gov't??? Please help me understand liberals.

[CrackerJax]

It's ALWAYS been greed. Don't kid urself.

 

[londonfog]

I have a problem with greed when it hurts someone else...When I retired from the service I got bored quick...didn't need the money so i really didn't have to work,but I was so damn bored..I opened up a couple of laundromats just so I would have something to do .It was not really much work but its something I could do to feel like I was doing something...lol.. I eventually went to a government gig that only requires maybe about 2 months of work though out the year..I only need about two maybe 3 people to run the places ( along with my wife ) when I'm gone or busy...I hired 5..The reason being is because I could ..Yes I would save more dough ( about 18.304 a year per person) and keep more for myself if I only had 3 on payroll, but hey those people need jobs too...My wife and I are good to go far as money ( not rich,but good to go )...I plan to open up 1 or 2 more laundromats and start some fix-em up house projects in the next 3 years ..not because I'm money hungry or greedy..its because I see I can get more people working by me doing these projects...So yeah I have a problem with greedy azz CEO's just taking and taking...We are on this earth to help one another...When you forget or lose sight of that then you become some type of monster..

 

[CrackerJax]

Like I said... greed is in every system created by man. Capitalism doesn't have any more or less. It simply harnesses that greed best. The other systems do not.
Life isn't fair and there's no way to make it so. But in a capitalist system you have the best tools to SUCCEED.

There isn't enough political pablum available to get me to quit such a superior system.

No one who understands economics would disagree.

 

[doc111]

Like I said... greed is in every system created by man. Capitalism doesn't have any more or less. It simply harnesses that greed best. The other systems do not.
Life isn't fair and there's no way to make it so. But in a capitalist system you have the best tools to SUCCEED.

There isn't enough political pablum available to get me to quit such a superior system.

No one who understands economics would disagree.

Well put CJ. I think some people have an axe to grind because of some experience they've had with somebody of privelidged means. Or perhaps they feel some sort of guilt because of their success. I don't know. It is strange to me this idea of spreading wealth and all. I think we can all agree that greed is everpresent in the world. But it exists no matter what form of govt. Capitalism gives people an incentive to succeed. Why would you want to be a doctor or a CEO if you are only going to make $40,000 a year? You could die before you get your student loans paid off! It's called the American dream. We need to clean things up a bit for sure but to change our govt. because some people are pissed about their lot in life is ridiculous.

 

[mismos00]

Like I said... greed is in every system created by man. Capitalism doesn't have any more or less. It simply harnesses that greed best. The other systems do not.
Life isn't fair and there's no way to make it so. But in a capitalist system you have the best tools to SUCCEED.

There isn't enough political pablum available to get me to quit such a superior system.

No one who understands economics would disagree.

Greed is in Man, not in systems. You can be a capitalist and completely altruistic or you can be a capitalist and be a greedy douche, but capitalism does reward the Greediest. Nothing wrong with that. (Are you aware of the capitalists that got Cannabis made illegal in the US) Do you understand the sway capitalism have over the political process? If anything capitalist corporations need to have less power.

Why would you, or who is asking you, to quit capitalism? I don't think it is even possible. I don't think there is any country (maybe North Korea) that doesn't have some sort of capitalist system.

Just trying to make sense of the latest fads in hysteria.

 

[doc111]

Greed is in Man, not in systems. You can be a capitalist and completely altruistic or you can be a capitalist and be a greedy douche, but capitalism does reward the Greediest. Nothing wrong with that. (Are you aware of the capitalists that got Cannabis made illegal in the US) Do you understand the sway capitalism have over the political process? If anything capitalist corporations need to have less power.

Why would you, or who is asking you, to quit capitalism? I don't think it is even possible. I don't think there is any country (maybe North Korea) that doesn't have some sort of capitalist system.

Just trying to make sense of the latest fads in hysteria.

There are certain people who believe we should spread the wealth around. Make the govt. bigger so it fulfills all of our needs. They want socialism. Socialism doesn't provide incentives for people to strive to be better. There are those in govt. who want to socialize healthcare and force everyone to have health coverage. This is unamerican and against everything this country stands for. They see only the negative and not the positive in the system. Instead of working within the system they believe we should just abandon capitalism as a whole and adopt a more equitable form of govt. I personally think, and a lot of people agree, that this will only make things worse in the long run. Socialism might sound like a great idea on the surface to the average person. But if you look carefully it will only make the problems we are facing worse.

 

[ancap]

When I retired from the service I got bored quick...didn't need the money so i really didn't have to work,but I was so damn bored..I opened up a couple of laundromats just so I would have something to do .It was not really much work but its something I could do to feel like I was doing something...lol.. I eventually went to a government gig that only requires maybe about 2 months of work though out the year..I only need about two maybe 3 people to run the places ( along with my wife ) when I'm gone or busy...I hired 5..The reason being is because I could ..Yes I would save more dough ( about 18.304 a year per person) and keep more for myself if I only had 3 on payroll, but hey those people need jobs too...My wife and I are good to go far as money ( not rich,but good to go )...I plan to open up 1 or 2 more laundromats and start some fix-em up house projects in the next 3 years ..not because I'm money hungry or greedy..its because I see I can get more people working by me doing these projects...So yeah I have a problem with greedy azz CEO's just taking and taking...We are on this earth to help one another...When you forget or lose sight of that then you become some type of monster..

There are a magnitude of different reasons why someone would want to run a business, and if you run your business with the goal of hiring the most amount of people you can, I think that's great. You just have to realize that you put your potential for job creation in jeopardy if your payroll expenses limits your total available capital for expansion. This may not apply to your personal situation, but typically maximizing payroll beyond the need pisses off the investors, puts a company's reserves at risk, and limits growth potential.

Hiring more people than a company needs is nothing more than a charitable action to me. That's wonderful if you'd like to do this, but I don't think a CEO who is responsible for the corporate health of his company should be forced to be charitable in this way. Most corporations give massive amounts to charity as is. Spending unnecessary amounts on payroll will limit their budget for other charitable giving. Also don't forget that many of these "greedy" executives end up donating large portions of their income to charity, sometimes the majority of their income.

I have a problem with greed when it hurts someone else...

I would completely agree, though I suspect I might object to your specific examples of greed.

 

[doc111]

There are a magnitude of different reasons why someone would want to run a business, and if you run your business with the goal of hiring the most amount of people you can, I think that's great. You just have to realize that you put your potential for job creation in jeopardy if your payroll expenses limits your total available capital for expansion. This may not apply to your personal situation, but typically maximizing payroll beyond the need pisses off the investors, puts a company's reserves at risk, and limits growth potential.

Hiring more people than a company needs is nothing more than a charitable action to me. That's wonderful if you'd like to do this, but I don't think a CEO who is responsible for the corporate health of his company should be forced to be charitable in this way. Most corporations give massive amounts to charity as is. Spending unnecessary amounts on payroll will limit their budget for other charitable giving. Also don't forget that many of these "greedy" executives end up donating large portions of their income to charity, sometimes the majority of their income.



I would completely agree, though I suspect I might object to your specific examples of greed.

I think most people with a conscience are opposed to greed which hurts anybody. We are so disconnected today that is difficult to see what impact each of our actions has on society. If I buy my coffee from a large corporation who doesn't pay it's growers a fair price I'm indirectly screwing farmers in some 3rd world country. Most people don't realize this. If you eat a burger from a company who buys cattle from Brazil you are contributing to the deforestation of the amazon rain forest. All decisions have consequences and most educated people try to make good decisions. Some who are apathetic simply don't care what effect their decisions have on anything or anybody. Simple as that.

 

[londonfog]

Very good point Ancap but please be assure I still make a nice profit even with the people I employee ( and I need everyone of them )...I just don't see that if I'm living nice and have the means to help others why would I not make the choices I made......hire others or keep stacking more and more dough......I will hire and expand each time..and one thing I notice when I do it seems I get way more back with zero stress!!!!...What the hell I need with 4 -5 cars when I can only drive one ????...Why do I need a house with 8 bedrooms when only 4 people live in the house???? Now I would like a yacht, but my RV will do for now...People in this country stuck on bigger and more when most times its just a waste.....I have been blessed and nothing makes me more richer then being able to help out others or to give back to my community...Hey can't help the way I am ..Its the way I was built and I wouldn't change it even if I could.....Some people not greedy, but more giving

 

[Hydrolicious]

Of course you don't realize it but that's 100% correct. With Capitalism, greed is HARNESSED and directed towards the greater good. No other system takes human nature into account better than Capitalism.

That's why it's the best... hands down. Not even close. Capitalism works, and it works best.

No, capitalism works best for YOU...

By giving freedom to "the people" you are also giving power to take freedom away.
You really trust the most ambitious among us will not use that power?

I still say that "freedom" is relative. You haven't proven that free markets work best on their own.

I challenge you to do so.
Please read my posts #76 and #86

In those posts I have real-world examples of how a BUSINESS abuses its role in the marketplace to subvert their CUSTOMER'S freedoms AND place a stranglehold on a ANOTHER BUSINESS in a related industry.

This is a classic example of a NEED for regulation.

I argue that the "freedom" that you say is good for the marketplace is only good for those with an advantage in the marketplace... and quickly devolves into cronyism...

What do you have to say about antitrust laws?
What about regulations against Ponzi schemes?

 

[Illegal Smile]

Greed that doesn't hurt anybody is greed that failed. it's about competition, more for me means less for you. If we eliminate competition we will fail in every way possible. Greed and fear balance each other and together they move us forward.

 

[Hydrolicious]

I have no problem when individuals judge it as greedy or anything else for execs to make huge money. I do have a very large problem when it is suggested the government has any business regulating it. I'm a shareholder. I vote for directors. They decide how much to pay execs and they do it on my behalf. That whole system is a hell of a lot more fair and democratic that the one that put a fraud like Obama in office with the aid of subversives like acorn. It is WE who need to regulate THEM. When people fear the government it is tyranny. When the government fears the people it is liberty.

Yes, it is us who need to regulate govt. And in turn we need govt to regulate business because WE CANT.

I am an investor, too. And I get PISSED OFF that the same execs you are defending LIE TO US on a regular basis.

So yes, I want govt to institute and enforce GOOD regulation... like transparency... so lets push for that instead of

LESS GOVT BLAH BLAH BLAH CAPLITALISM GODDAMN SOCIALIST HIPPIES LETS TEAR GOVT APART AND REMOVE CHECKS AND BALANCES FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE ECONOMICALLY PROVEN THEMSELVES TO BE THE GREEDIEST AND MOST POWER HUNGRY PEOPLE LESS GOVT GLENN BECK JUST ASKING QUESTIONS BULLSHIT LESS GOVT LESS REGULATION HELL LETS JUST GO WITH AN ALL OUT ANARCHY. VOTE REPUBLICAN

^- This is Fox News

 

[420always]

find a person who will decriminalize weed and i to will vote but un till then you all can vote for who ever you want at my level lower class that is ive noticed that wether it is a rep or a dem in office i am still broke and that is just the way it is if your parents had money then you will probly have money sure there is the exceptions but they are few and far between

 

[Hydrolicious]

Greed that doesn't hurt anybody is greed that failed. it's about competition, more for me means less for you. If we eliminate competition we will fail in every way possible. Greed and fear balance each other and together they move us forward.

I disagree. I think greed is more powerful than most people realize. So powerful, it eventually conquers competition(and therefore the fear associated with it) and takes hold of society. We do need laws to curb that effect.

 

[Illegal Smile]

Yes, it is us who need to regulate govt. And in turn we need govt to regulate business because WE CANT.

I am an investor, too. And I get PISSED OFF that the same execs you are defending LIE TO US on a regular basis.

So yes, I want govt to institute and enforce GOOD regulation... like transparency... so lets push for that instead of

LESS GOVT BLAH BLAH BLAH CAPLITALISM GODDAMN SOCIALIST HIPPIES LETS TEAR GOVT APART AND REMOVE CHECKS AND BALANCES FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE ECONOMICALLY PROVEN THEMSELVES TO BE THE GREEDIEST AND MOST POWER HUNGRY PEOPLE LESS GOVT GLENN BECK JUST ASKING QUESTIONS BULLSHIT LESS GOVT LESS REGULATION HELL LETS JUST GO WITH AN ALL OUT ANARCHY. VOTE REPUBLICAN

^- This is Fox News

Those are good points. I do not believe any element of society should go unregulated. And I think business is already heavily regulated. If it needs to be more regulated in some areas then we should have a legislative process to get that done.

The other side of government intrusiveness is not lawlessness. Appointed czars setting salary caps is not regulation that was arrived at through a democratic process. Besides, unlike activist administrations in the past, this admin doesn't just want to exercise control over "corporations" they want to get at the corporations because through them, they can control us all.

 

[CrackerJax]

That pay czar is totally unconstitutional. he is a "major officer" by standard and all major office holders MUST be approved by the Senate. he wasn't ... unconstitutional ... it's quite clear.

No govt. official has the right to tell a PRIVATE corp. that it must cap a salary. It's just a way of deflecting and creating public anger and envy, while the same govt. officials move into the vacuum of power and consolidate it.

 

[Hydrolicious]

Appointed czars setting salary caps is not regulation that was arrived at through a democratic process.

This is an extreme circumstance, and it is taxpayer money at stake. The people who's pay is being decided would have no pay and probably no savings(stock) if govt hadn't intervened in the first place. The intent of the bailout is to prevent financial collapse; not to facilitate profiteering among the elite of the company.
I would argue that he is curbing govt waste by preventing execs from tapping taxpayer money for their own profit.

I realize that extreme circumstances can be abused to seize control, but these are temporary measures and there is no evidence that the control will not be promptly returned YET... Once more time has passed I would start to question about the exit strategy.

It has not been long enough to start questioning the integrity of this administration. I swear it seems like people everywhere are looking for any excuse to vilify Obama. He inherited a slew of horrible problems and so far seems reasonably good intentioned and honest about his methods.

Besides, unlike activist administrations in the past, this admin doesn't just want to exercise control over "corporations" they want to get at the corporations because through them, they can control us all.

That seems like quite an alarmist statement. Can you please explain what you mean?

 

[Hydrolicious]

Like I said... greed is in every system created by man. Capitalism doesn't have any more or less. It simply harnesses that greed best. The other systems do not.

You got that backwards, man.

Its greed that harnesses capitalism best, not the other way around.

 

[londonfog]

That pay czar is totally unconstitutional. he is a "major officer" by standard and all major office holders MUST be approved by the Senate. he wasn't ... unconstitutional ... it's quite clear.

No govt. official has the right to tell a PRIVATE corp. that it must cap a salary. It's just a way of deflecting and creating public anger and envy, while the same govt. officials move into the vacuum of power and consolidate it.

Its funny how everyone sees what is constitutional and what is not..where the hell was you during Bush's unconstitutional BS...If you didn't say nothing then STFU now ...Sit back and enjoy the ride...weeeeeeeeeeee

 

[medicineman]

find a person who will decriminalize weed and i to will vote but un till then you all can vote for who ever you want at my level lower class that is ive noticed that wether it is a rep or a dem in office i am still broke and that is just the way it is if your parents had money then you will probly have money sure there is the exceptions but they are few and far between

You actually summed it up pretty sucinctly, Kudos.