Advanced Stealth Hydro Bubbeponics Thread

[Mr.Bob Saget]

It looks to me like you have low humidity. Mist them with plain ph'd water and see if that helps. Believe me those plants don't look at that bad and you're not close to looking anything. Let them sit for a couple of days and if they don't improve do a clearex run.

The humidity in the tent is at 33% this AM, I misted the plants with water. I have been doing this a couple times a day.

The plants did not show any signs of improvement in the last 12 hours.

I will see what they look like in another 12 hours.

 

[Roseman]

Do you guys mind that I post my now problem plant pics in this thread? Or should I move to the plant problems section?

ask Jonny, its his thread.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

ask Jonny, its his thread.

Its everyones thread. I just glad people are using it.

As I said before Bob, after you do the change, the plants will continue to decline for a day or two, and then rapidly get much much better. The leaves that are already damaged may not get their color back but the new growth will be healthy and green and some of the leaves that aren't too badly damaged may recover slightly. Good luck with it. I bet they're looking better today.

 

[Uncle Ben]

I didn't read this thread completely, but what I did read I didn't see any mention of the NPK values of your foods. Up to a point, the last produced leafsets should be bigger than the previous ones.

 

[Roseman]

I am using in VEG:

GROW N-P-K 10:5:14
CALCIUM 6%, MAGNISUM 2%, SULPHUR 3%,
IRON .12%, MANGANESE .05%,
AND BORON, COPPER, CHLORIDE,
MOLYBDENUM, AND ZINC .01%



and in Flowering I use

BLOOM N-P-K 5:15:14
(NOTE A SMALL AMOUNT OF NITROGEN IS STILL IN THERE)
CALCIUM 5%, MAGNESIUM 3.5%,
SULPHUR 4%, IRON .1%,
AND BORON, COPPER, CHLORIDE,
MOLYBDENUM, AND ZINC .01%

but I add a pinch of the VEG to the BLOOM nutes. LOL,,,I really do.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

I didn't read this thread completely, but what I did read I didn't see any mention of the NPK values of your foods.

He's using Fox Farm Trio pack. But only doing a res change in a 6 gallon res every two weeks.

 

[Uncle Ben]

He's using Fox Farm Trio pack. But only doing a res change in a 6 gallon res every two weeks.

Thanks, but I don't care about labels and stupid trade names or 6 packs, I only deal with what plants need which is what is stated in NPK and micro values. Most of you guys focus on fancy names and labels, I focus ONLY on plant requirements regarding nutrition. Just because someone gives their plants Joe's Gro Food, doesn't mean it's worth a shit, and, it usually isn't. Most of the crap you guys are using is hyped, over-priced, has the wrong NPK values and is not complete.

Best,
UB

 

[JonnyBtreed]

I don't know, I looked around a couple places and didn't see and N-P-K values. And Bob didn't even specify which fox farm products he had.

I'm not even so sure that the fox farm trio pack is even soluble... Just because I know that make a specific line that IS advertised as soluble and for hydro.

 

[Uncle Ben]

I am using in VEG:

GROW N-P-K 10:5:14
CALCIUM 6%, MAGNISUM 2%, SULPHUR 3%,
IRON .12%, MANGANESE .05%,
AND BORON, COPPER, CHLORIDE,
MOLYBDENUM, AND ZINC .01%



and in Flowering I use

BLOOM N-P-K 5:15:14
(NOTE A SMALL AMOUNT OF NITROGEN IS STILL IN THERE)
CALCIUM 5%, MAGNESIUM 3.5%,
SULPHUR 4%, IRON .1%,
AND BORON, COPPER, CHLORIDE,
MOLYBDENUM, AND ZINC .01%

but I add a pinch of the VEG to the BLOOM nutes. LOL,,,I really do.

Good job. Got a question. I've noticed over the years that the K values of hydro foods are always higher than N even for supporting leaf production. Doesn't make sense. Is there a reason for that? Does such a typical "Grow" formula suggest that K is not readily available in water culture or does it suggest that the vendors don't what in the hell they are doing?

I would NEVER use a 10-5-14 for veg, cannabis or otherwise. Perhaps if you switched the values bass ackwards it would be fine - 14-5-10.

 

[Roseman]

Good job. Got a question. I've noticed over the years that the K values of hydro foods are always higher than N even for supporting leaf production. Doesn't make sense. Is there a reason for that? Does such a typical "Grow" formula suggest that K is not readily available in water culture or does it suggest that the vendors don't what in the hell they are doing?

I would NEVER use a 10-5-14 for veg, cannabis or otherwise. Perhaps if you switched the values bass ackwards it would be fine - 14-5-10.

I have read that potassium will stay in soil forever and in hydro, it goes away sooner. supposed to help plants immune system. That is from my stoned memory and I can't tell you much more.

 

[Uncle Ben]

I have read that potassium will stay in soil forever and in hydro, it goes away sooner.

And just how far does it go?

Seriously, K is usually delivered in the form of a chloride or sulfate, which is easily leached out in soil i.e. potassium chloride (Muriate of Potash) or potassium sulfate. So solly to sound jaded, but I really don't think most of these "cannabis specific" food pushers know what in the hell they are doing other than how to screw someone over.

UB

 

[JonnyBtreed]

I've always wondered about that. It always seemed reverse to me as well. I fertilize trees for a living and its a well know fact, to push growth and overall vitality you use a high nitrogen fertilizer in the spring and summer. In the spring we use a 32-7-7 when the plants are putting more energy into growth and we use a 12-24-24 in the fall, when we're promoting root growth and sustainability over the winter. I realize trees and a flowering annual are very different from each other but the way plants facilitate the compounds is the same regardless. So I too was confused about the high potash/potassium growth formula's when I started hydro.

 

[Roseman]

And just how far does it go?

Seriously, K is usually delivered in the form of a chloride or sulfate, which is easily leached out in soil i.e. potassium chloride (Muriate of Potash) or potassium sulfate. So solly to sound jaded, but I really don't think most of these "cannabis specific" food pushers know what in the hell they are doing other than how to screw someone over.

UB

I just don't know Ben. I've smoke about 2 joints a day for 41 years and I have a difficult time remembering my name sometimes. I drain my reservoir tank once a week, every week and start all over just to be sure the buffet table stays full for my plants.

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

I don't know, I looked around a couple places and didn't see and N-P-K values. And Bob didn't even specify which fox farm products he had.

I'm not even so sure that the fox farm trio pack is even soluble... Just because I know that make a specific line that IS advertised as soluble and for hydro.

Jonny thanks for looking. I have the full product line, 3 liquids, and 3 solubles. Here is the link to the feeding schedule, if anyone wants to make sure I'm reading this correctly that would be great.
http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/hydrofeed.pdf

These are the three liquids:
http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_liqfert1.html

These are the three solubles used later in flower:
http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_solgran2.html


All three of the plants where germinated on 11-9, put into the system on 11-15.

EC is 1.4 (just about 1000 PPM, not sure which conversion it is on, I remember a 6)
PH is 6.0
Res temp is 72 F
Air Temp is 81
RH is 32% (I know it is low, been misting twice a day, and I have a bucket of water in there with the res, which didn't seem to do squat)

Here are the most current pictures, the plants look locked up, and they have not used much water in the last couple of days. I will hope by tomorrow I see some change, from the res change two days ago. Are we able to tell what caused this by the leaf close ups?

I think tonight I'm going to witch the light (400 MH) to 18/6, currently 24/7 and this is the only thing I'm doing different from prior grows.

After reading and re-reading Fox Farms web site, I think I might do as the schedule advises and do a flush with ClearX, does anyone think this is a bad idea? Should I wait another day or two? I'm not sure how much more before I loose the plants.


Thanks for checking out the thread Uncle Ben.

 

[brophat]

Hi

I'm sure this has been asked but here goes: I read that we noticed an increase in growth by turning the pump off for 15 minutes. Why not set a timer to turn the watering pump off for 15 minutes several times a day? Are SH nutes the best to use in this system? How do foxfarm nutes compare to the SH nutes?

thanks much

Jonny thanks for looking. I have the full product line, 3 liquids, and 3 solubles. Here is the link to the feeding schedule, if anyone wants to make sure I'm reading this correctly that would be great.
http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/hydrofeed.pdf

These are the three liquids:
http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_liqfert1.html

These are the three solubles used later in flower:
http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/products_solgran2.html


All three of the plants where germinated on 11-9, put into the system on 11-15.

EC is 1.4 (just about 1000 PPM, not sure which conversion it is on, I remember a 6)
PH is 6.0
Res temp is 72 F
Air Temp is 81
RH is 32% (I know it is low, been misting twice a day, and I have a bucket of water in there with the res, which didn't seem to do squat)

Here are the most current pictures, the plants look locked up, and they have not used much water in the last couple of days. I will hope by tomorrow I see some change, from the res change two days ago. Are we able to tell what caused this by the leaf close ups?

I think tonight I'm going to witch the light (400 MH) to 18/6, currently 24/7 and this is the only thing I'm doing different from prior grows.

After reading and re-reading Fox Farms web site, I think I might do as the schedule advises and do a flush with ClearX, does anyone think this is a bad idea? Should I wait another day or two? I'm not sure how much more before I loose the plants.


Thanks for checking out the thread Uncle Ben.

 

[Uncle Ben]

I've always wondered about that. It always seemed reverse to me as well. I fertilize trees for a living and its a well know fact, to push growth and overall vitality you use a high nitrogen fertilizer in the spring and summer. In the spring we use a 32-7-7 when the plants are putting more energy into growth and we use a 12-24-24 in the fall, when we're promoting root growth and sustainability over the winter.

Ditto. If you have the will, how about putting in a call to Cornell University, GH, or the Schultz tech department and ask them. You sound like you know what you're doing. Dyna-Gro sells foods specifically designed for hydro and soil-less mixes, and their Foliage Pro is a 9-3-6 while their Bloom food is a 3-9-6. They are value added products, one part, complete with 16 elements.

I realize trees and a flowering annual are very different from each other but the way plants facilitate the compounds is the same regardless.

That's what I think too. What makes hydro and soil different regarding plant nutrition and elemental uptake? Like I said, is K somehow not as much available as N so they increase the K amount in their products? A high K ratio to N is ridiculous for producing and maintaining foliage.

So I too was confused about the high potash/potassium growth formula's when I started hydro.

I don't know how many soil gardens I've seen marginalized because folks were too stubborn to go from a high K food to a high N food designed for soil. Even got flamed for it at PG - they were bent on listening to their "friends" who told them what they wanted to hear rather listening to reason from an experienced grower. I could only shake my head and watch as plant health declined.

Here are the most current pictures, the plants look locked up,......

Call it what you want, they look stunted to me, like they need more N.

After reading and re-reading Fox Farms web site,

Uh oh, "Houston, I think we have a problem here."

I think I might do as the schedule advises and do a flush with ClearX, does anyone think this is a bad idea?

"Houston, the problem is getting worse, over".

What is in Clearex that is of any value? Let's just get away from the sales pitches for a moment, OK? What is the active ingredient in Clearex and what happens botanically (chemically) when its used? If you don't really know, then why would you even consider spending your money on it? You gonna put blind faith into what someone who has a profit motive claims, or what someone parrots at a pot forum?

 

[JonnyBtreed]

Ditto. If you have the will, how about putting in a call to Cornell University, GH, or the Schultz tech department and ask them. You sound like you know what you're doing. Dyna-Gro sells foods specifically designed for hydro and soil-less mixes, and their Foliage Pro is a 9-3-6 while their Bloom food is a 3-9-6. They are value added products, one part, complete with 16 elements.

Well thank you very much UB, coming from such an experienced grower that really means a lot to me. And I have thought about shooting the guys at GH a call or an E-mail (simply because I'd like their reasoning in writing.) I guess an e-mail is in order.

That's what I think too. What makes hydro and soil different regarding plant nutrition and elemental uptake? Like I said, is K somehow not as much available as N so they increase the K amount in their products? A high K ratio to N is ridiculous for producing and maintaining foliage.
Other than mostly completely soluble nutrients (obviously other then the metals) I can't think of a thing. A quicker uptake of certain compounds over other based on availability and solubility. Also your completely refreshing the nutrients in the root zone every week. But I still can't think of a reasonable excuse for the reverse N-P-K rates.

Although I can't imagine ANYONE has done more field testing of these products then the company's themselves, and I would have to imagine they started with a high nitrogen growth formula, and then tweaked it because of issues encountered with that formula.


I don't know how many soil gardens I've seen marginalized because folks were too stubborn to go from a high K food to a high N food designed for soil. Even got flamed for it at PG - they were bent on listening to their "friends" who told them what they wanted to hear rather listening to reason from an experienced grower. I could only shake my head and watch as plant health declined.

What do you think of Subcool's Organic mix formula? Are you familiar with it? I think I might try it next year outside.
As an Arborist I've grown accustomed to chemical fertilizers and I'm getting more and more clients who are pushing for fertilization with "Organic Compost Tea's".
I'm willing to try it, and I essentially live on the East Coast equivalent to San Francisco when it comes to nature lovers and tree huggers. So Compost teas and Biological controls are going to have to make their way into my service list soon enough. Although I've heard some real horror stories running such insoluble fertilizers though a spray rig. Guess we'll see.

Thanks for your time man...

 

[Roseman]

I was reading my biggest grow book last night, getting ready for my harvest. It said there is a two sided arguement to trimming close and not trimming close (manicuring) and the book discussed pros and cons over 4 pages.
Basically it said
Leaving some trim leaves also leaves trichomes, which help protect the bud from insects and fungus. But leaving leaves is where the bad taste of nutrients remain too. You also risk bud mold by leaving larger trim leaves and drying and curing takes longer too. Drying and curing is more risky with leaves still on the buds.

Closely manicuring will leave tasier buds, or sweeter tasting buds, since nutes were strored in the leaves. But close manicuring is less weight and those trim leaves do contain a high percent of THC if covered in trichomes. And Trimming close gives better looking buds, and less drying and curing time too. Trimming close is less risky.

There's two sides to everything I guess.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

If there's a shine on the leaves, I leave them..... lol

I swear when that bud was fresh it would stick to the wall like spaghetti, ya know, one of those buds thats hard to put down...

 

[HomeGrownHairy]

I know..I know..I was really hoping that it wasn't, but it is some sort of deficiency.

I will do a res change tomorrow, if it doesn't get any better.

One more thing I didn't add, I'm using distilled water, and I emailed Fox Farm asking them about there feeding schedule, asking if it was based on a 0 EC water, I didn't get a reply. I have seen a feeding schedule from one company that based the EC and PPM numbers on like a 200 PPM water to start with...

If you're using distilled you do need some Cal-Mag...Looks like mag def to me. The packaged nutes dont have enough for pure water and you need to make up the difference. Just follow the directions on the bottle.