removing/ trimming fan leaves during bloom

[sparki]

I was wondering if anyone coulf claify this for me. Can you remove the fan leaves or trim back some of the fingers to allow more light to penetrate to the lower buds? i was thinking of doing this from week 6 to finish (8 weeks).

 

[Little Tommy]

It is a better practice to bend and tuck the fan leaves. Removing them is usually not a good idea unless the leaf is already toast. I try to wait for the plant to drop them naturally which they will do after the food stores are all used up and have gone yellow.

 

[High Time 420]

tie the leaf's out of the way

 

[RichED]

i will let you know soon on an experiment this plant i wound up with one surviver started with 3 beans one seedling died vegged for 8 weeks and one turned up male now one plant so its catching hell

i cut all fans before flower 36 hours darkness at conversion out of darkness bud blood in soil under 2 250w bulbs one hps one mh
one uvb 20 above to one side one 20w flour grow bulb 2700 verticale on one side and the other side has 4 60w cfls

i give her 1/4 turn every day
plant is a old skool O G Kush from Elite Genetics trying to get a massive yield useing organics and trying this kushie kush thingy

 

[sparki]

tie the leaf's out of the way

It is a better practice to bend and tuck the fan leaves. Removing them is usually not a good idea unless the leaf is already toast. I try to wait for the plant to drop them naturally which they will do after the food stores are all used up and have gone yellow.

Thanks for confirming that i shouldnt remove, i guess i should just do the extra work and tie them all back.

 

[sparki]

i head bub blood works wonders. so freakin expensive though. Kushie Kush sounds like it work awsome too, please lemme know if its worth the trouble of bugging my clinic to get it for me. the hydro store told me they cant get that for me.

 

[darkdestruction420]

if you wanted a better yield why would you cut off the plants most effecient and biggest energy producers?not to mention all the nutes and that that was being stored in the fans you threw away...... its like trying to run faster by chopping off your toes.......

 

[sparki]

if you wanted a better yield why would you cut off the plants most effecient and biggest energy producers?not to mention all the nutes and that that was being stored in the fans you threw away...... its like trying to run faster by chopping off your toes.......

i should have been more clear. I was more focused on removing like 1/2 of a finger of a leaf. there are some nugs that are covered by 2-3 fingers from different leaves. it get a fraction of the light of the higher nugs. so i was hoping whatever i lost in those fingers would gain in larger nugs from getting way more light. since light is what cause the reaction of photosynthesis, so without light i figured they wont even be able to use the nutes. i was thinking loose a lil to gain more at the end, same concept as the popular lollipop method. maybe my application is wrong.

 

[Shanus]

It is a better practice to bend and tuck the fan leaves. Removing them is usually not a good idea unless the leaf is already toast. I try to wait for the plant to drop them naturally which they will do after the food stores are all used up and have gone yellow.

My research concurs. Well put

 

[RichED]

THIS IS A CUT AND PASTE FROM A SITE CALLED GOLDEN SEED


"Interesting facts" THEORIES WHY TO TRIM FAN LEAVES
Increase Lower Bud Development
The fan leaves shade lower buds and that these buds do not develop to there full potential because of a reduction in lighting intensity due to shading from upper fan leaves.

To conserve energy for upper bud development
Trimming fan leaves and lower, shaded branches focuses the plant’s development on main top buds. A plant wastes precious energy several ways. A tall plant needs to use energy to build extra stem, and then use extra energy to move water up higher, this is why I believe "scrog" methods are productive. An untrimmed bushy plant causes the plant to expend energy to build elaborate branches and leaves, and then has to use excess energy to supply all these structures. Careful trimming to remove unnecessary branches (which wont produce nice buds) and unproductive suckers will leave more energy for a larger yield. Suckers do exactly as their name suggests, they suck needless energy from the plant which can be put to better use, towards yield.

 

[RichED]

bumpedy bump

 

[darkdestruction420]

read this......
Pruning/leafing

Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques.. In the mind of the cultivator, several reasons exist for removing leaves. Many feel that large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant, and therefore the flowering clusters will be smaller. It is felt that by removing the leaves, surplus energy will be available, and large floral clusters will be formed. Also, some feel that inhibitors of flowering, synthesized in the leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.
In actuality, few if any of the theories behind leafing give any indication of validity. Indeed, leafing possibly serves to defeat its original purpose. Large leaves have a definite function in the growth and development. They serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced. As these leaves age and lose their ability to carry on photo synthesis they turn chlorotie (yellow) and fall to the ground. In humid areas care is taken to remove the yellow or brown leaves, because they might invite attack by fungus. During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls, and translocates the molecular components to a new growing part of the plant, such as the flowers. Your ladies begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage, and this trend continues until senescence. It is more efficient for the plant to reuse the energy and various molecular components of existing chlorophyll than to synthesize new chlorophyll at the time of flowering. During flowering this energy is needed to form floral clusters and ripen seeds.
Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change.
If leaves must be removed, the petiole is cut so that at least an inch remains attached to the stalk. Weaknesses in the limb axis at the node result if the leaves are pulled off at the abscission layer while they are still green. Care is taken to see that the shriveling petiole does not invite fungus attack.
It should be remembered that, regardless of strain or environmental conditions, the plant strives to reproduce, and reproduction is favored by early maturation. This produces a situation where plants are trying to mature and reproduce as fast as possible. Although the purpose of leafing is to speed maturation, disturbing the natural progressive growth of a plant probably interferes with its rapid development.
Your plants grow largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and water and left alone to grow and mature naturally. It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle will affect productivity. Imaginative combinations and adaptations of propagation techniques exist, based on specific situations of cultivation. Logical choices are made to direct the natural growth cycle to favor the timely maturation of those products sought by the cultivator, without sacrificing seed or clone production.

 

[tom__420]

The buds do not need to be getting hit with light, the main fan leaves do
It is simple photosynthesis, leaves need to soak up the light
Add the energy from the light, the water you give the plant, and the co2 in the air and you have buds
Check out fdd2blk's outdoor grows, he keeps all the fans leaves and has unbelievable harvests
DO NOT REMOVE FAN LEAVES

 

[sparki]

The buds do not need to be getting hit with light, the main fan leaves do
It is simple photosynthesis, leaves need to soak up the light
Add the energy from the light, the water you give the plant, and the co2 in the air and you have buds
Check out fdd2blk's outdoor grows, he keeps all the fans leaves and has unbelievable harvests
DO NOT REMOVE FAN LEAVES[/QUOTE

i think its hard to compare outdoors vs indoors. this is my last indoor grow, im over it. im gonna focus on getting a house so i can grow outdoors and grow huge plants bigger than me. there are leaves on the buds though, wouldnt those contribute?

read this......
Pruning/leafing

Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques.. In the mind of the cultivator, several reasons exist for removing leaves. Many feel that large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant, and therefore the flowering clusters will be smaller. It is felt that by removing the leaves, surplus energy will be available, and large floral clusters will be formed. Also, some feel that inhibitors of flowering, synthesized in the leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.
In actuality, few if any of the theories behind leafing give any indication of validity. Indeed, leafing possibly serves to defeat its original purpose. Large leaves have a definite function in the growth and development. They serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced. As these leaves age and lose their ability to carry on photo synthesis they turn chlorotie (yellow) and fall to the ground. In humid areas care is taken to remove the yellow or brown leaves, because they might invite attack by fungus. During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls, and translocates the molecular components to a new growing part of the plant, such as the flowers. Your ladies begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage, and this trend continues until senescence. It is more efficient for the plant to reuse the energy and various molecular components of existing chlorophyll than to synthesize new chlorophyll at the time of flowering. During flowering this energy is needed to form floral clusters and ripen seeds.
Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change.
If leaves must be removed, the petiole is cut so that at least an inch remains attached to the stalk. Weaknesses in the limb axis at the node result if the leaves are pulled off at the abscission layer while they are still green. Care is taken to see that the shriveling petiole does not invite fungus attack.
It should be remembered that, regardless of strain or environmental conditions, the plant strives to reproduce, and reproduction is favored by early maturation. This produces a situation where plants are trying to mature and reproduce as fast as possible. Although the purpose of leafing is to speed maturation, disturbing the natural progressive growth of a plant probably interferes with its rapid development.
Your plants grow largest when provided with plentiful nutrients, sunlight, and water and left alone to grow and mature naturally. It must be remembered that any alteration of the natural life cycle will affect productivity. Imaginative combinations and adaptations of propagation techniques exist, based on specific situations of cultivation. Logical choices are made to direct the natural growth cycle to favor the timely maturation of those products sought by the cultivator, without sacrificing seed or clone production.

THIS IS A CUT AND PASTE FROM A SITE CALLED GOLDEN SEED


"Interesting facts" THEORIES WHY TO TRIM FAN LEAVES
Increase Lower Bud Development
The fan leaves shade lower buds and that these buds do not develop to there full potential because of a reduction in lighting intensity due to shading from upper fan leaves.

To conserve energy for upper bud development
Trimming fan leaves and lower, shaded branches focuses the plant’s development on main top buds. A plant wastes precious energy several ways. A tall plant needs to use energy to build extra stem, and then use extra energy to move water up higher, this is why I believe "scrog" methods are productive. An untrimmed bushy plant causes the plant to expend energy to build elaborate branches and leaves, and then has to use excess energy to supply all these structures. Careful trimming to remove unnecessary branches (which wont produce nice buds) and unproductive suckers will leave more energy for a larger yield. Suckers do exactly as their name suggests, they suck needless energy from the plant which can be put to better use, towards yield.

i read a thread sounding very similar to this. which caused the confusion and started this thread haha

 

[tom__420]

Outdoors and indoors are the same thing as far as photosynthesis is concerned. Those big leaves are there to soak up the energy from the light and combine that with co2 and water and the plant will make glucose. That feeds the plant and makes it grow. Whether it is indoors or outdoors photosynthesis is still happening the same way. Leave the leaves on whether inside or out

 

[sparki]

Outdoors and indoors are the same thing as far as photosynthesis is concerned. Those big leaves are there to soak up the energy from the light and combine that with co2 and water and the plant will make glucose. That feeds the plant and makes it grow. Whether it is indoors or outdoors photosynthesis is still happening the same way. Leave the leaves on whether inside or out

true, photosynthesis is the same. but growing conditions of the two are totally different in my opinion. i'd like to elaborate, after a smoke and drink run haha

 

[tom__420]

Yeah please do, good luck trying to disprove photosynthesis

 

[sparki]

Yeah please do, good luck trying to disprove photosynthesis

disprove photosythesis? how am i comming off like this?

indoor vs outdoor...

simply put, i wouldnt care about light hitting the buds if i was growing outdoors with the power of the sun. one plant could take care of the yeild of several of my indoor plants. its since im dealing with a limited area, im trying to maximize everything, including the lower buds.
if i remember correctly, dont you grow outdoors as well? and if it's your threads is the right one im thinking of, i recall asking myself, why would you waste time and money with the indoor stuff when your growing some awsome stuff outdoors?

back to photosynthesis, light is what causes the reaction, so no light=no reaction was pretty much my basis for this thread

 

[tom__420]

The fan leaves need to get hit with light, the buds DO NOT NEED TO BE IN LIGHT. The fan leaves soak up the energy from the sun or indoor lights and combine that with the co2 in the air and the water that you give it to create glucose. Glucose is a sugar that feeds the plant. As the plant is fed it will grow bigger buds. Pulling off the fan leaves is stunting your growth and your harvest in the end. The leaves need the light, not the buds for the 18th time.
LEAVE THE LEAVES ON THE PLANT

 

[darkdestruction420]

The fan leaves need to get hit with light, the buds DO NOT NEED TO BE IN LIGHT. The fan leaves soak up the energy from the sun or indoor lights and combine that with the co2 in the air and the water that you give it to create glucose. Glucose is a sugar that feeds the plant. As the plant is fed it will grow bigger buds. Pulling off the fan leaves is stunting your growth and your harvest in the end. The leaves need the light, not the buds for the 18th time.
LEAVE THE LEAVES ON THE PLANT

tom, ive wanted to +rep you on every post you've made on this thread, well said again! If i could i would rep you for each one, oh well.