Leaves curling. WTF!

[MrMarbles]

I've just went to a completely new system in order to better control the environment as well as the nutes and root zone but I'm still having issues. Not only are the leaves curling under they're also twisting.

Six - White Widow
Temps 70f low to 78f high
Humidity 35-50 % - a bit low
1000w Super HPS

Water 65f low to 71f high
PH- 5.8-6.0
PPM - 500

As you can see from the pics I'm using 5"x5" fence posts with net pots and Hydroton. The water is simply pumped in at one end and drains out the other. Each row has it's own reservoir so I can do some experimenting.
The plants are now 2 1/2 weeks into 12/12 and were probably started a little early as they were just rooted clones when they went in this room. The water level was originally running just under the bottom of the net pots, but has since been lowered to about a 1 inch depth.
Each net pot has and air stone directly under it. so it can't be lack of dissolved oxygen. And everything else seems to be spot on. The only other thing I could think of is maybe the light is too close, so I just raised it up another foot this morning leaving about 3 1/2 to 4 feet from the tops.
Does anyone recognize the cause of all this leaf curling? The first couple pics were before I hit them with some Penetrator and Liguid Light and the last few were taken 8 hours after the P & LL were applied, they have since returned to their previous state. As you can see the roots look good and the plants are otherwise healthy looking except for the leaf curling.
This is my fourth crop and I've had some sort of issue in everyone of them, hence why I went to this system.

 

[MrMarbles]

Really? No one has any input on this? Am I just growing in the Bermuda Triangle or what?

 

[DubsFan]

Really? No one has any input on this? Am I just growing in the Bermuda Triangle or what?

Edit- Just noticed your PPM is around 500...you're overwatering.


I have 10 Dutch Passion WW in 4x8 tray with Rockwool slabs. This is my second grow with the WW.

I think you're overwatering and your nutes are too strong. These WW's do not like a strong nute mix. Any time I get over 1000ppm they start bugging out on me.

In those aero systems don't you do 1min on and 4min off or something like that? As of today I cut back my watering schedule on my WW. I'm not doing my last water 30min before lights out. I only water every three hours though...

In a 12 hour light cycle I used to water 5x now just 4x. That's a 20% decreese in watering. For you to do the same you would basically water every 5min instead of every 4. Just something worth trying.

Probably overwatering...but don't rule out too strong of nutes.

 

[MrMarbles]

Edit- Just noticed your PPM is around 500...you're overwatering.


I have 10 Dutch Passion WW in 4x8 tray with Rockwool slabs. This is my second grow with the WW.

I think you're overwatering and your nutes are too strong. These WW's do not like a strong nute mix. Any time I get over 1000ppm they start bugging out on me.

In those aero systems don't you do 1min on and 4min off or something like that? As of today I cut back my watering schedule on my WW. I'm not doing my last water 30min before lights out. I only water every three hours though...

In a 12 hour light cycle I used to water 5x now just 4x. That's a 20% decreese in watering. For you to do the same you would basically water every 5min instead of every 4. Just something worth trying.

Probably overwatering...but don't rule out too strong of nutes.

I thought maybe that was the case, but I'm using a system similar to one I've seen on here put together by Heath Robinson (vertical grow) and he runs water continuously like me and at 500 ppm.

Some of the older leaf tips are now showing some rust/brown spots, which is looking more and more like a Mag. deficiency, which can be caused by over watering.
I'm hoping the lower water level with the addition of the air stones will help. If not I can easily convert this to an aeroponic system, which I may do with one of the two tubes, just as a test.
I sprayed all six with a 2% Epsom Salt solution tonight and will continue to do so until I see some improvement. Over watering and the Mag. Def seem to be the only possible reasons for this issue. Everything else is spot on.

 

[organic farms]

noone seems to reply on here does my nug in nice setup man im growing organically but had same prob i increase my airflow as it was poor and no curling probs but think i gt bugs now ill be putting up new pics soon check it out https://www.rollitup.org/organics/275845-new-organic-first-time-grow.html happy grow!

 

[OregonMeds]

It couldn't be overwatering or lack of oxygen the way you have it set up. Check for bugs with a microscope, tiny things like spider mites etc you can't see otherwise. Top and bottom of leaves, roots, water. If none...

I am no expert on hydro having only played with it for a while, but since when does anyone flower plants with 500 ppm? That sounds about the range you'd give rooting clones. Please double check the exact gallons of water in your resevoir, fill it with a milk jug if you have to, then get out a proper measuring cup or similar and measure out the amount it says you should be using of just your basic nutrients for plants in full sun flowering and nothing else no additives.

Then ph
Then check THAT pmm. I bet it's a lot higher than 500, that's probably where you should be. The damaged growth will always be damaged, and they will probably be stunted for a week, but keep running that way until you see all is well with new growth.

You may be using some chemicals that don't react well together, causing lock out of some nutrients or something, but I'm guessing they're just starved. If you dropped to 500 just to save them don't do that again, starving living organisms never saves them.

 

[Potgrower3345]

It couldn't be overwatering or lack of oxygen the way you have it set up. Check for bugs with a microscope, tiny things like spider mites etc you can't see otherwise. Top and bottom of leaves, roots, water. If none...

I am no expert on hydro having only played with it for a while, but since when does anyone flower plants with 500 ppm? That sounds about the range you'd give rooting clones. Please double check the exact gallons of water in your resevoir, fill it with a milk jug if you have to, then get out a proper measuring cup or similar and measure out the amount it says you should be using of just your basic nutrients for plants in full sun flowering and nothing else no additives.

Then ph
Then check THAT pmm. I bet it's a lot higher than 500, that's probably where you should be. The damaged growth will always be damaged, and they will probably be stunted for a week, but keep running that way until you see all is well with new growth.

You may be using some chemicals that don't react well together, causing lock out of some nutrients or something, but I'm guessing they're just starved. If you dropped to 500 just to save them don't do that again, starving living organisms never saves them.

i had the same problem as yours i was growing in my backyard i had some people come over so i had to hide my plants inside for 2 hours in the dark as soon as i put them outside everysingle leaf was curling i was like wtf? i straight away sprayed them with rain water and that fixed them good lol idk if that will fix yours tho.

 

[MrMarbles]

Bump!

Still looking for more input guys/gals.

I have since taken one tank down to 100 ppm and the other up to around 1000 ppm in an effort to see what effect they will each have. So far they seem to be responding similarly, except for the roots in the 1000ppm tube seem to be growing faster and have more hairs on them. Still foliar treating with 2% epsom salt solution.

I'll add more info after tonights inspection once the lights come on.

 

[cowboylogic]

It couldn't be overwatering or lack of oxygen the way you have it set up. Check for bugs with a microscope, tiny things like spider mites etc you can't see otherwise. Top and bottom of leaves, roots, water. If none...

I am no expert on hydro having only played with it for a while, but since when does anyone flower plants with 500 ppm? That sounds about the range you'd give rooting clones. Please double check the exact gallons of water in your resevoir, fill it with a milk jug if you have to, then get out a proper measuring cup or similar and measure out the amount it says you should be using of just your basic nutrients for plants in full sun flowering and nothing else no additives.

Then ph
Then check THAT pmm. I bet it's a lot higher than 500, that's probably where you should be. The damaged growth will always be damaged, and they will probably be stunted for a week, but keep running that way until you see all is well with new growth.

You may be using some chemicals that don't react well together, causing lock out of some nutrients or something, but I'm guessing they're just starved. If you dropped to 500 just to save them don't do that again, starving living organisms never saves them.

Meds is pretty much right. Step back to the basics and work from there. And like he said your nutes. Gotta pay attention in what order you mix most of them. Generally the micros go in first. Less chance of a clash and lockout of some of the nutes added after.

 

[dank2 kevin]

i am doing a similar grow though it is aeroponics, and i am deep into flower and i started having the same rust color brown spots on the young leaves coming out of the nugs. I do have some heat stress action so i raised the light, but i ran out of room and i am at the roof with the light not sure if the rust and the heat stress is the same. So to be safe i flushed with floraklear for 4 hours and another 13.5hrs with ro water, and i put 1/2 strength nutes in after, which is about 1100 ppm.

to be more direct i water 24/7 and keep my ppms alot higher than 500ppm and never had a problem before a week ago.

 

[MrMarbles]

i am doing a similar grow though it is aeroponics, and i am deep into flower and i started having the same rust color brown spots on the young leaves coming out of the nugs. I do have some heat stress action so i raised the light, but i ran out of room and i am at the roof with the light not sure if the rust and the heat stress is the same. So to be safe i flushed with floraklear for 4 hours and another 13.5hrs with ro water, and i put 1/2 strength nutes in after, which is about 1100 ppm.

to be more direct i water 24/7 and keep my ppms alot higher than 500ppm and never had a problem before a week ago.

Right on. Thanks! After four days of running the two tanks, one at 100 ppm and the other at 1000 ppm there is almost no discernible difference. If I had to I'd give the nod to one I'd give it to the 1000 ppm tank as they look just a bit better and the roots appear to be growing fuller.

That being said, I'm taking both tanks up to 1000 ppm since there hasn't been any sign of nute burn in the 1000 ppm tank after 4-5 days. I have also removed all the damaged (spotted, curled) leaves from four of the six plants so I can quickly spot any continued problem.

I guess I just thought I could use a lower strength solution since the roots were being continually fed, but, maybe, that just isn't the case. If I start seeing improvement with no sign of nute burn I might just up the ppm another 200-500 points.

I also purchased an Myron L analog PPM meter off of Ebay today, so I'm pretty stoked about that. If I could just find one of their 2-12 analog Ph meters I'd be golden.

 

[MrMarbles]

Right on. Thanks! After four days of running the two tanks, one at 100 ppm and the other at 1000 ppm there is almost no discernible difference. If I had to I'd give the nod to one I'd give it to the 1000 ppm tank as they look just a bit better and the roots appear to be growing fuller.

That being said, I'm taking both tanks up to 1000 ppm since there hasn't been any sign of nute burn in the 1000 ppm tank after 4-5 days. I have also removed all the damaged (spotted, curled) leaves from four of the six plants so I can quickly spot any continued problem.

I guess I just thought I could use a lower strength solution since the roots were being continually fed, but, maybe, that just isn't the case. If I start seeing improvement with no sign of nute burn I might just up the ppm another 200-500 points.

I also purchased an Myron L analog PPM meter off of Ebay today, so I'm pretty stoked about that. If I could just find one of their 2-12 analog Ph meters I'd be golden.

For those of you with similar problems as in my pics. As previously mentioned I have taken both tanks up to 1000-1100 ppm and at the present time all six appear to be doing well with no new signs of the curling leaves or rusty spotted tips. I'll put some new pics on in a couple of days. I've also been spraying them on a regular basis with a 2% Epsom salt/ Penetrator solution.

Since I have so much light (1k hps w/ horizontal reflector ) in a 3x4 room and since the roots are in a highly aerated, constant high flow solution, I think I'm going to crank up at least one of the tanks to 1500 ppm. IF I burn them shouldn't I expect to see that in just a day or two if not in just a matter of hours?