peroxide, aquashield, great white, advanced nutrients... questions

[sherriberry]

roots under water

4 lbs per plant

beat that with your wisdom and then i will accept that a thin layer of water is better than a half inch of water that is oxygenated...

when the guy in the post below has his roots under 6 inches of water, and outdoes all of us.

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131...ee-grow-14877/

my table is fine. I know what nft is. I know my table is not nft by the book. I appologize, but im not changing it because frankly, it doenst matter.

And the link above proves it doesnt.

 

[fatman7574]

roots under water

4 lbs per plant

beat that with your wisdom and then i will accept that a thin layer of water is better than a half inch of water that is oxygenated...

when the guy in the post below has his roots under 6 inches of water, and outdoes all of us.

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131...ee-grow-14877/

my table is fine. I know what nft is. I know my table is not nft by the book. I appologize, but im not changing it because frankly, it doenst matter.

And the link above proves it doesnt.

Would you like scintific references. Ithought not. If your staified with substandard why bother saking questions or for sugesstions unless you just want to here what youare doing is fine. Just think how good that guys grow would have been if the same amount of money and time was used in a better grow. Aqua culture is the least effective growing method for pot. Period.

 

[sherriberry]

i thought maybe we might end up on the same page, but obviously we are miles appart...

doubled's 42lbs off of 10 plants with 10 lights breaks all kinds of records.

he attributes the success to the following variable...

high speed flow rates.

if water is churned up enough... like white water rappids, it holds much larger air bubbles.

the roots lock onto these larger bubbles with great success...

4 lbs per 1000 watt light

4 lbs per plant.

science is based on success in the real world.

if you have an equation or some principle that is based on low speed flowing of water... great

but if you have one that adresses high speed water flows AND it states that this is inferior...

i will disagree with you all day long.

the future of hydroponics is high speeds flow rates and lots of bubbles.

yes, aeroponics are great as well...

however, its very expensive for a good setup.

I plan on using misters that have smaller micron sizes in the future.

but my point is... with the table... i can slow down the flow so that the water is just a film...

but guess what, less water is in the channle, it clumps together, and just picks kind of like a river pattern... and less of the root gets the water.

if i could do the sprayers all the time, yes it would be much better....

but as far as nft is concerned... consider this.

In nft, half the root is in the water, and the other half is in the air... and some of the roots dont even touch the water, they are just up in the air.

now, lets raise the level a bit.

now there are some roots under water that is flowing by very fast.

some are half in air half in the water, and less are up in just air.

so you tell me how having some roots in just air, compared to some roots under oxygenated nute water is better?

thats the key in my setup, and its working really well. I have no reason to lie. If it didnt work i would say it doenst because i dont want a bunch of people hating me later when their plants suck.

aeroponics.... yeah, build an aeroponic site for over 200 plants for under 200 bucks including the pumps.

goodluck.

Now make that aeroponic site fit in a 4x5 area.

goodluck.

this was my goal, and someone who does not have this table, and keeps repeating themself over and over and over and over that NFT IS A THIN FILM...

thank you ... we get it... what do you want me to do?

 

[sherriberry]

"sorry if im being a jerk , its been a long day...

fatman says "Before your next f grow get some matting like scotch or 3M scrubbing pads etc and throw them in the bottom of the troughs with some silk screen cloth over that. It should provide a channel for flow but keep your roots from laying in water. Some people merely put down a half inch or inch of well draining media down and place silk screen cloth down and fill the
gutters up."

okay, im interested, can you find any pics of what you are talking about...

do the roots pierce this stuff or what?

Thanks, sorry for being a dick.

 

[fatman7574]

I am sure the scientists and reserachers and thosusands of NFT commerco ila greem house operators are wrong and you are entriely right. Excuse me for doubting you..................

When you learn the scince of O2 disffusion you will hopefully grow up and be willing to change for the better. In the mean time enjoy.

I met Cooper and spent half a day with him once. He would have just laughed at you and merely walked away while you were speaking.. He always said his work was only meant to help those willing to learn and change based upon that learning it was not meant to force change on those who chose to operate with less or in ignorance makes excuses for their failings.

Have a good day.

 

[sherriberry]

fatman... again, im sorry for being a dick.

i can go back and erase my post if you want, but im willing to admit i can make mistakes.

anyway, ive got a question for ya..

on the selenoid thing...

the one you bought, is it a T, so it spits it one way or the other?

can this be hooked up to a CAP art timer to have it open one way, and then open the other?

what im getting at is this...

if i used one pump, and one res, and had a setup like stinkbuds bloom station...

but instead had 4 fence posts instead of 2... and had the water flow alternate back and forth every 4 min or so between a pair of fence posts, so the pump was always on... and each pair of posts got a chance to dry out a bit.

would this work?

and im trying to figure out a way to split it 4 ways, like have another selenoid T on each side of the T, but that would require 2 times, and i think sinking them up will be impossible.

forget that last paragraph it if doesnt make sense.

But i just need a valve that can be hooked to a cap art timer, and spit one way, and then spit the other, and alternate back and forth.

Thanks.

 

[fatman7574]

It is actually better that the plants roots just be sprayed intermittantly just long enough to stay moist and just enough that there is always just so water draining from the channels. Pot root mases are typically thicker than vegetable root masses so spraying is much more effective then assuming the water at the bottom of the channel will be adequtely wicked up by all the upper roots. Just as in aero with NTF only abut 1% of the oxygen the plants take up is due to DO, The rest is O2 from the surrounding air. Air holds many, many hundred of times more O2 the 100% O2 saturated water. Lpus O2 di oes not dissuse well through waters so thw water thickness must be thin as the O2 in thick layers of water does not diffuse quick enough to ever make it to the roots. Only the immediate thin film's O2 is taken up by the palants to any real extent. That maens the roots are supposed to be wetted not under water unless the water is very, very shallow. Cooper states 1/10 of an inch deep.

It is merely the end of the semester and therefore finals time and my students are running me ragged so I am even more of an ass*ole than usual. It is not your fault that my behvaiour is worse than usual.

What I use are pumps that typically have a 3/4" diamter discharge. The pumps are external. The feed is just through use of a bulkhead and flex PVC pipe. On the discharge I use a short piece of flex pvc to absorb shock and vibration. Then the standard ball valves unions etc. But then I install a standard T fitting. If I have a 1" valve that is great as I then use a 1" T fitting. One branch at or reduced to 3/4" goes up to the mister piping where it is feeds a manifold pipe with the misters attached via 1/4" outside diamter spagetti tubing (standard black irrigation tubing). The other branch of the T fitting has the electric solenoid valve on it. It is normally closed so water flows to the misters. However when the solenoid is opeb ned by the timer the water takes the path of lease resistance and therefore flows through the solenoid branch of the T fitting whereby it flows straight bacj to the reservoir. Water always flows by the path of least resistance. The misters are up hill (static head resistance) , further away (pipe friction resistance) and the misters small tubing (more pipe friction resistance) and the misters (orifice resistance pressure) themselves cause a great amount of resitance. The valve and short piece of return pipe offers neraly no resistance to flow. The misters do not even drip after the solenoid opens if it is 3/4" or 1". They make alternating valves that when used with a timer would just switch back and forth between two different valves or pumps. They sell commonly on eBay for around $25 each. One will controll switching between two things. I use a lot of Crouzet brand alternating relays. If you ever decide to use on and can't get one at a decent prices let me know as I have quaite a few more than I need. I buy them any time I see them not being bid on or selling cheap at a by now price. Advantage of no spouse and grown up children. I spend my money without needing the approval of others.

 

[sherriberry]

how many misters could that 300 dollar pump that is only 80 bucks...

how many could it power?

do you understand my concept?

im trying to get the most sprayers run off of one pump, and one res.

the solenoids are cheaper than a pump, so why not set them up in a relay fashoin so that the pump powers these sprayers in this fence post, then those shut off, and it powers thse in this fence post over here... and so on

 

[sherriberry]

actually, i just realized that i describe it much better in the "new nft table" thread

 

[fatman7574]

The Iwaki MD30RZT will handle easily at least 140 of the misters that are made for higher pressure (there flow is only 1 gallon per hour) if wanting a very fine mist. More for a mist with larger droplets. The piump pumps at a high pressure not a high volume. T You want a mist not a spray. You want a fine spray not volume. You want things kept moist not under water. The way you are talkng you would be needing a very,very large grow room to use just the cpacity of kust one pump if spraying constantly. Each mister in a large chamber gutter will easily hadle tow foo of running gutter. It would cover 4 suquare feet of a bed. Say even just 2 foot of small gutter 4 inches wide. At two foot spacing that is at laest 280 feet. At 10 ffot long that is 28 gutters. That means edge to edge over 9 feet by 10 feet. And that is what the pump can handle at one time. If you want to run 4 systems at once your talking with walking space up to 4 plant rooms about 12' by 14' each. Up here we can buy cheaply what are called used ATCO units. They are basically 10' by 40" mobile homes with no interior walls, bathrooms, kitchens, plumbing etc. Just a 200 amp electrical service with an outlet every four feet, a thermostatically controlled hot air oil furnace and heavily insulated walls. We use one pump per unit.

 

[sherriberry]

sounds like i need to come visit

so what would be the disadvantage of putting a sprayer at each root site?

also, before i forget...

how do the sprayers attach to the feed line? do i want the barbed ones or the screw style ones.

are those the best sprayers? I assume the ones that would have smaller microns require more pressure to run, thus a more expensive pump and probably hard lines?

thanks

 

[fatman7574]

These misters work very well with the Ebay Iwaki pump. Yes they work even better with higher pressure but high pressure aero is an entr irely differet set up withmany more parts and pieces. I use these 1 gph nozzles and I use the press in not screw in. http://www.dripirrigation.com/index.php?cPath=43&sort=2a&page=3 They insert into the standard thin 1/4" black plastic irrigation tubing. I then insert the smalltube into a John Guest T fitting. I install that on a John guest stem adapter fitting that is installed into a drilled tapped holes drilled into my PVC main distributer pie. http://www.freshwatersystems.com/c-500-john-guest-pp-range-white-polypropylene-fittings.aspx I use PVC cement on the screwed in fittings to glue them in place as the pie is to thin to hold many threads. The prices for the fittings seem high but if you use the quanity pull down windows you will see the prices drop a lot as the quantity purchased increases. It is all just c schedule 4o PVC ipe used for drainage lines etc. Cheap stuff and avilable at Lowes Home Depot etc. Evem the high pressure earo just use plastic piping. They use acumalator tanks, 100 psi pumps($300 plus ) and presseure switches, pressure relief valves, timer, solenoid etc, etc. but generally the same misters as the link I posted.

 

[sherriberry]

what nutes will i have to use with these misters?

will advanced nutrients micro and bloom work?

what else will i need to use?

what can I NOT use... i assume molassis?

anyway... the barbed fitting goes straight into the flexible line? do i drill a hold in it? how does it go in? or does it go in at the end of the line, and i have to make a T for every nozzle off the main line?

thanks buddy

 

[sherriberry]

also, i checked out that john fittings page.

i see the stems...

im not sure which T you mean tho... and i dont understand the need for the T exactly if i just hook the stem straight to the flexible hose?

obviously im missing something

 

[fatman7574]

The T is so you can hook two lines up for each hole drilled in the min delivery pipe. Drill a hole install the thraed stem adapter. The T fitting has three entrances. One goes over the stem as if it was tubing. The other two stick out side ways and one tube is plugged into each side. The T fittings are called Union Tee Polypro and are at the bottom of the page.

 

[sherriberry]

so i want 1/4 EVERYTHING?

1/4 tubing

1/4 t's

1/4 stems (with 1/8 scews to put in pvc)

only reason i ask is because its inner diameter and outer diameters... so i dont want to get things crossed before i order.

if i get 1/4 OD line, i get 1/4 fittings correct?

 

[fatman7574]

so i want 1/4 EVERYTHING?

1/4 tubing

1/4 t's

1/4 stems (with 1/8 scews to put in pvc)

only reason i ask is because its inner diameter and outer diameters... so i dont want to get things crossed before i order.

if i get 1/4 OD line, i get 1/4 fittings correct?

The main pipe running from your pump would be 3/4" or larger. All the ubing and fittings used with that main distribution pipe would be 1/4". The tubing diameter is 1/4" outside diameter, therefore the 1/4" fittings from Johhny Guest are for 1/4" outside diamter when listed as 1/4". The industry standard is to list tubing sizes by out side diameters. It is anybodies guess why.

They also sell the tubing, but so does Lowes, Home Depot and most hardware stores. http://www.freshwatersystems.com/c-328-polyethylene-tubing-nsf58.aspx

If you can buy white tubing as it reflects light rather than the standard black that absorbs the lights heat and therefore raises water temps.