Time to End "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

[CrackerJax]

The military brass doesn't want it. The military rank and file don't want it.

Don't do it.

Pretty simple..... it's not a social project. It's national security for Pete's sakes. It's about winning.....not correctness.

 

[jeff f]

The military brass doesn't want it. The military rank and file don't want it.

Don't do it.

Pretty simple..... it's not a social project. It's national security for Pete's sakes. It's about winning.....not correctness.

it seems as dont ask dont tell was a perfect mesh of correctness vs military effectiveness. gays can serve, just not openly. folks who disagree with gays in the military dont have a leg to stand on if they want to get rid of you for being gay.

seems the only people bitchin were the far out gays with an agenda and once again obama sides with them. sometimes its prudent to let well enough alone.

 

[RickWhite]

The military brass doesn't want it. The military rank and file don't want it.

Don't do it.

Pretty simple..... it's not a social project. It's national security for Pete's sakes. It's about winning.....not correctness.

QFT

Some things are not about the individual. But I guess the notion of seeing something beyond ones self is just another one of my old antiquated ways of looking at the world.

 

[fdd2blk]

[youtube]-xg6DzRPDZ8[/youtube]

[youtube]Bkt1vAX0MRM[/youtube]


i don't make this shit up, i just find it for you all to enjoy.

 

[doc111]

[youtube]-xg6DzRPDZ8[/youtube]

[youtube]Bkt1vAX0MRM[/youtube]


i don't make this shit up, i just find it for you all to enjoy.

LMFAO!!!! That second video when the guy shoots the rifle and then screams like a little bitch................priceless!

 

[upnorth2505]

it seems as dont ask dont tell was a perfect mesh of correctness vs military effectiveness. gays can serve, just not openly. folks who disagree with gays in the military dont have a leg to stand on if they want to get rid of you for being gay.

seems the only people bitchin were the far out gays with an agenda and once again obama sides with them. sometimes its prudent to let well enough alone.

Oh Jeff, when oh when will I obtain your level of intellectual development? Just reading your garbage, opps I mean verbage, sends me off into the stratosphere of devine knowledge. I am truely ready for the next step: levitation. That and riding on a pleatau of devine knowledge in the universe. . . . . opps, excuse me

I wonder if I have made my point?

As always, peace, love, and gratuitous sex.

 

[doc111]

Oh Jeff, when oh when will I obtain your level of intellectual development? Just reading your garbage, opps I mean verbage, sends me off into the stratosphere of devine knowledge. I am truely ready for the next step: levitation. That and riding on a pleatau of devine knowledge in the universe. . . . . opps, excuse me

I wonder if I have made my point?

As always, peace, love, and gratuitous sex.

From what I've seen on here so far, you've got a way to go.

 

[upnorth2505]

From what I've seen on here so far, you've got a way to go.

If you guys would just get a sense of humor and not be so serious. Social problems (?) usually do not have a simple, pat answer. That goes for you AND me. Can't we just look at both sides of the issue?

 

[CrackerJax]

[youtube]nNEskfjlyDY[/youtube]

 

[jeff f]

Oh Jeff, when oh when will I obtain your level of intellectual development? Just reading your garbage, opps I mean verbage, sends me off into the stratosphere of devine knowledge. I am truely ready for the next step: levitation. That and riding on a pleatau of devine knowledge in the universe. . . . . opps, excuse me

I wonder if I have made my point?

As always, peace, love, and gratuitous sex.

honestly, i have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

i was in for 20 years and worked with many gay people. even seen a few kicked out. i was in from 1981 until 2001.

so you little fucking putz, i aint just whistling dixie, i lived through it you little trolling fuck. yes, i was the supervisor who had to implement the policy you stupid little ignorant turd. i was the guy who had to manage straight guys along side gay guys. so if you want to act like some little fucking stooge fag and not a regular fag, go ahead. you dont have to listen to some real world experience, you can continue to keep your head firmy planted up your shit hole and listen to gay activists who dont know shit from shinola about the military or protecting the fucking country so little asswipes like you can spout your fucking bullshit.

kinda like living through a tornado and letting a little fucking idiot who lives in a bubble explain how it feels. fucktard.

Man i feel better. as i was saying, it was a perfect mesh. the gay guys knew they couldnt say anything and the hard core straight guys couldnt go around discriminating. i even had 2 couples, one lesbo one gay, that worked in my squadron that married each other just for the extra money. nobody turned them in. it was to each his own as long as they did their job.

before the policy you definetly had head hunters that were out to find every gay/lesbo and get them kicked out. dont ask dont tell put a grinding halt to that. you know, good for everybody type stuff without affecting the mission. that was or seems to be what we should be shooting for when it comes to military policy.

my 2 centavos...plus a little extra for butt boy

 

[CrackerJax]

I'm just going to leave a small jar of vaseline for UpNorth.... ouch.

 

[upnorth2505]

jeff f, thanks for the response. Now all of my opinions have been confirmed. You are a truely bigotted guy. And proud of it, I'm sure. Despite my 2 years of service and keeping my yap shut, my concern is for those serving being booted out if the "truth" becomes known.

My guess is that 80% or more of solders do not give a shit if you are str8 or gay. It is time for everyone to adapt. It is not okay to hate "niggers" or "negros" as you racist folks like to say. Nor is it okay to hate gay folks anymore. Oh, and I am waiting for all the "funny" queer, fag, gay, fudge-packer, homo "jokes" you are ready to post.

Why don't you start to like people rather then hating those who are not a carbon copy clone to who you are?

 

[upnorth2505]

I'm just going to leave a small jar of vaseline for UpNorth.... ouch.

Oh, the profound wit! That is like really funny! What would be cool is if you were in prison and some dude with a 12"er showed you what it is all about. Of course, I doubt you would know anything was up there.

 

[jeff f]

jeff f, thanks for the response. Now all of my opinions have been confirmed. You are a truely bigotted guy. And proud of it, I'm sure. Despite my 2 years of service and keeping my yap shut, my concern is for those serving being booted out if the "truth" becomes known.

My guess is that 80% or more of solders do not give a shit if you are str8 or gay. It is time for everyone to adapt. It is not okay to hate "niggers" or "negros" as you racist folks like to say. Nor is it okay to hate gay folks anymore. Oh, and I am waiting for all the "funny" queer, fag, gay, fudge-packer, homo "jokes" you are ready to post.

Why don't you start to like people rather then hating those who are not a carbon copy clone to who you are?

boy, this is like taking candy from a baby..

hey dummy i dont hate anybody you goon. i kept them both around as long as they did their job.

you said

My guess is that 80% or more of solders do not give a shit if you are str8 or gay

as a person who was there and knows, your numbers are way low especially in the upper ranks. and if nobody gives a shit, WHY FUCK WITH IT? thats the whole point....jeese

pay attention here dumbass while i take you to school.

i watched a fullbird colonel tell an E-9 lesbian to take it down a notch because some of the youngsters were talking....end of discussion. never mentioned again. dude, there were 40 people in the room during a full blown staff meeting of e7-e9 and 2lt to bird.

he wasnt saying hey, go find the lesbians and kick them out. btw THAT RARELY IF EVER HAPPENS.

he was telling the whole wings leadership to A) quit whining about people being gay, B) gay people stop wearing your sexuality on your sleeve. and EVERYBODY WAS HAPPY.

but more importantly the mission went on seemlessly.

this isnt about your imbisilic little mind coming to grips with your sexuality. this is about protecting a country in the time of war. and in order to do that you have to convince a whole range of people to do a whole lot of things that are counterintuative, like running into oncoming bullets.

its harder to do that when the president throws an unecessary bees nest in the middle of the bunker with little to no discernable benefits.

so take the saddle of your little fucking horse and talk about the issue and not one of your fantasy nightmares where the big bad straight monster is coming to get you.

straight people in the military could care less, especialy the brass.

now, if you would like to participate with the grownups on the board, present a counter argument and not some stupid fucked up diatribe about "niggers" and "negros". because apparently you didnt get those references either.

 

[jeff f]

Oh, the profound wit! That is like really funny! What would be cool is if you were in prison and some dude with a 12"er showed you what it is all about. Of course, I doubt you would know anything was up there.

i just realized youre 15 years old.....

 

[upnorth2505]

The number of gay service folk that want to be "out there" is an EXTREME minority. Just like lazies, bums, and others are in the minority. Gay folk do not want to wave a banner and run around screatching "I'm gay, oh yeah. I'm here to cause the colapse of society. I want to convert everyone to gay!"

Truth is, we are just regular folk (with an obvious difference), who do not want to be "booted" should our "secret" be known. We are brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, cousins, uncles, aunts, and family. Gay's do not have any desire to "wave the flag" in the military. More gays have been dismissed under don't ask, don't tell then prior. What do gays want? Not to be fired for serving our country. A country we are happy and proud to defend. No matter how we are treated. Because we love our country and always will.

 

[jeff f]

The number of gay service folk that want to be "out there" is an EXTREME minority. Just like lazies, bums, and others are in the minority. Gay folk do not want to wave a banner and run around screatching "I'm gay, oh yeah. I'm here to cause the colapse of society. I want to convert everyone to gay!"

Truth is, we are just regular folk (with an obvious difference), who do not want to be "booted" should our "secret" be known. We are brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, cousins, uncles, aunts, and family. Gay's do not have any desire to "wave the flag" in the military. More gays have been dismissed under don't ask, don't tell then prior. What do gays want? Not to be fired for serving our country. A country we are happy and proud to defend. No matter how we are treated. Because we love our country and always will.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/13/AR2007031301174.html

out of the couple million military and another couple million reserve guard only 612 booted in 07. not many.

i am willing to make an educated guess and say that the majority of those discharged were discharged because they made some kind of comotion like sexual harrassment, openly sucking face in the barracks, or somehting of that nature. there is no gay hunting going on in the military is what i am telling you. but i think we both agree on that. there is very little gay bashing, descrimination happening within the military.

that being said, why on earth would you want to tackle something that is only going to get everybody all fired up? i will tell you why, now pay attention here because this is critical, obama is doing it because thats what he does. he is a community organizer. he goes in a community, throws in a hand grenade and creates chaos. during the chaos nobody is focused on the real agenda pitting people against people to acquire more power.

dude its in a book. you should read it sometime. here are the rules for radicals by saul alinski. this is one of bamas mentors as stated by bama himself. read this and you will be able to see reason for throwing this bomb in the barracks.

Always remember the first rule of power tactics (pps.127-134):
1. "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."
2. "Never go outside the expertise of your people. When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear and retreat.... [and] the collapse of communication.
3. "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."
5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."
6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."
7. "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time...."
8. "Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."
9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."
10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."
11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside... every positive has its negative."
12. "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."
13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target

 

[fdd2blk]

The number of gay service folk that want to be "out there" is an EXTREME minority. Just like lazies, bums, and others are in the minority. Gay folk do not want to wave a banner and run around screatching "I'm gay, oh yeah. I'm here to cause the colapse of society. I want to convert everyone to gay!"

Truth is, we are just regular folk (with an obvious difference), who do not want to be "booted" should our "secret" be known. We are brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, cousins, uncles, aunts, and family. Gay's do not have any desire to "wave the flag" in the military. More gays have been dismissed under don't ask, don't tell then prior. What do gays want? Not to be fired for serving our country. A country we are happy and proud to defend. No matter how we are treated. Because we love our country and always will.

bullshit!




and it's NOT obvious until you start skipping. how the fuck is gay "obvious"?

 

[jeff f]

The number of gay service folk that want to be "out there" is an EXTREME minority. Just like lazies, bums, and others are in the minority. Gay folk do not want to wave a banner and run around screatching "I'm gay, oh yeah. I'm here to cause the colapse of society. I want to convert everyone to gay!"

Truth is, we are just regular folk (with an obvious difference), who do not want to be "booted" should our "secret" be known. We are brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, cousins, uncles, aunts, and family. Gay's do not have any desire to "wave the flag" in the military. More gays have been dismissed under don't ask, don't tell then prior. What do gays want? Not to be fired for serving our country. A country we are happy and proud to defend. No matter how we are treated. Because we love our country and always will.

BTW, wasnt that a lot easier than the other way? now maybe we both can learn something..

 

[dukeofbaja]

CrackerJax said "The military brass doesn't want it."

What planet are you living on? I live on the one where Robert Gates is the defense secretary, where Michael Mullen is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Barack Obama is the commander in chief. I think that is all the top brass right there. The ones who get their information from the more 'rank and file' of the military establishment. I would put their judgment on the issue above anyone on this forum, unless of course they had a better resume.

fdd2blk stated "you feel the need to "tell" me you are gay, yet you have no desire to look at my penis. why the fuck do i care if you are gay? you're either shoving it in my face or not. which is it?"

Wow, you have so properly dissected an issue that deals with basic human rights and decency, and turned it into a homophobic diatribe.

jeff f stated "i was in for 20 years and worked with many gay people" before insulting whoever he was arguing with gratuitously (because we all know whoever throws the most insults is the correct one). Oh, well, let me forget what the top Pentagon defense officials are saying. Because you, a person of limited social understanding, spent 20 years serving. Not gonna happen