Save my baby!!! Yellow tips and oldest spikey leaf is shriveled

N

needhelpgrowing

Active Member
I am having a problem with my big bang plant. Here is the info.

* Hydro or Soil (Fox Farm Ocean Forest)
* Type of light? (1x 50 WATT HPS + 2x 42 WATT CFL@ 6500K + 1x 42 WATT CFL@ 2700K)
* Atmosphere Conditions (75-80 Degrees, Humidity 20% or less)
* Waterings (Tap water left out a few days)
* PH Range (6.9 for water)
* Nutrients/Supplements (Was told soil had plenty for veging)
* Design and Dates (Germinated 2 days and sprouted on 1/29/10. Been on 24/0 since spouting, planning on going to 12/12 after 4-5 weeks. Also am rotating plant 1/4 every day. Watering every few days when soil drys out)

Pic of the cripple is the oldest two SPIKEY leaves, not the first two leaves, the second pair. The ones with the yellow spots are the biggest old leaves after the first 4 (2 starters, 2 spikey criples in other pic)

How do i save my baby??? Thanks.
 
Pipe Dream

Pipe Dream

Well-Known Member
kinda looks like overwatering to me. How big of pots are they in? can we get some more pics a little farther away please?
 
N

needhelpgrowing

Active Member
Pipe Dream said:
kinda looks like overwatering to me. How big of pots are they in? can we get some more pics a little farther away please?
Click to expand...
5 gallon pot I am watering then with a little less than 1 liter of water every 2-3 days when top few inches is dry. Using tap water left out a few days. Here are more pics back when my baby was healthy and lush. Thank you.
 

Attachments

Pipe Dream

Pipe Dream

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking that it's the large size pot that is causing problems. If the roots aren't pentrating deep than a lot of moisture can build up in the soil because it has nowhere to go. It also looks like from the pics that your not watering all the substrate so this could also be causing problems. What I would try is to water all of the substrate and let it get evenly moist and letting a little bit of the water runoff. You won't have to water as frequently and the roots can go deeper and recieve nutrients and water. That's what I think anyways.

IMHO that soil is expensive I would want to start off in smaller pots and gradually build up to the bigger pots. Not only does it make it easier to water properly but you don't waste as much soil on males and you don't leach the soil of it's good organic nutrients when there isn't any roots that are in the area to soak it up and they don't take up as much room.

oh and it's probably ready for nutes if you haven't started already.
 
I

idimi

Active Member
Ive seen something recently that looked exactly like this plant.(I mean exactly, soil n everything) It was mostly indica and was kind of droopy like so... Now the plant is doing so amazing. Keep loving em. They'll respond.
 
N

needhelpgrowing

Active Member
Thanks, any recommendations on cheap nutes i can get from a local store (lowes, home depot, walmart etc). I am still in vegging state so I need nutes for vegging now, but ones for flowering would be good to know for future notice as well.

When you say runoff i assume you mean water until it flows out the bottom correct? I never checked to see if it runs off because it is somewhat hard because my plant is snug in a Styrofoam box i found that perfectly fit the 5 gallon pot. I figured this would help keep in the heat better.

Should i let it dry out and then water it more than i am now (3/4 liter maybe) until it runs off with some nutes? Also il try watering evenly all around the pot as you are correct in that I have just been watering the middle mainly.
 
Pipe Dream

Pipe Dream

Well-Known Member
Yeah the runoff is the water that comes out the bottom. I like to water all the substrate so it's evenly moist and than only water when necessary. If your growing them in a box this also might be the problem also because the airflow is restricted and the plants basically suffocate on the oxygen. That's probably your biggest problem now that you mentioned that get a oscillating fan that blows on them. If your going to grow in a box make sure you have at least a good ventilation fan and a place for fresh air to be sucked in. Creating heat is a lot easier than cooling down an area i would take em out personally. As far as nutrients I would probably try out FF 3 part line of grow big,big bloom and tiger bloom since it's designed for the soil but you don't necessarily have to. Just look for fertilizer that's higher or equal in nitrogen as potassium and phosphorus. (nitrogen is always the first part of the N-P-K equation....for instance fertilizer that says 20-20-20 or 20-10-10)
 
N

needhelpgrowing

Active Member
The box only contains the pot the top part is open and has an oscillating fan blowing on it constantly. Would some miracle grow that is 20-20-20 be ok?

Also would i be better if i had my pot out of the box and on say a metal grate with a cup underneath to catch excess water and leave hte whole pot open? I open my closet regularly to get fresh air in.
 
N

needhelpgrowing

Active Member
Anyone else have any idea? I am getting conflicting reports between overwater and lack of nutrients. It is my first grow, and my first problem and I have little idea what to do. Someone please give me a step by step plan to save my poor little plant. I though the fox farm had plenty of nutes for a month or more and its only been 3 weeks and I didnt use that much water (3/4 liter in 5 gallon pot). Someone help my poor little plant.
 
N

needhelpgrowing

Active Member
Updated pictures from all around my plant. Including at the end, showing how it was in a styrofoam and i am moving it to being over a metal grade so water can drip underneath and there is better circulation for the roots. Please someone find whats wrong with my plant.
 

Attachments

N

needhelpgrowing

Active Member
I am going to go to home depot and try and get some nutes. Should i get something like 30-10-10 or 20-10-10 or similar? Also any brands I should avoid? I dont want to know the elite expensive stuff, I just want something I can get from a home depot type store but i see lots of complains about miracle grow. So what other brand that is carried everywhere would be recomended? I guess ill let it dry out and put in half the water i used to with 1/2-1/4 the fert it says to use because i read you should dilute it. Please help me with any info and ill head over to the store.
 
N

needhelpgrowing

Active Member
It seemed to be getting a little worse to instead of fertilizer i tried to combine a few suggestions. I let it dry out fairly well and watered only the outer rim of the pot. Someone pointed out from the wet spots in my picture I was only watering the inside which was true. If it needs nitrogen I would assume it would expand the roots to the edge of the pot and there should be fresh nutes there in the soil since I never really watered the outer rim of the pot. Just hope it wasn't over watering or this could make it worse i guess. Here is a close up of the worst leave that I will be taking pictures of periodically to see how it changes. Well its worst of the big bush. The two initial circular leaves are pretty much gone and the first 2 spikey leaves are alone under the rest of the plant and very brittle and more yellowish where as this one pictures just has a spot or two. One has a big crack in it. Any tips or ideas are appriciated, i guess if it doesnt get better in a few days with watering the outer soil ill try getting some nutrients.
 

Attachments

Kriegs

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
Have you checked thoroughly for insects or spider mites? That looks like a little leaf-sucking-insect damage at first blush.

If you check that off, I would say you're seeing a little nute burn - the lower leaf spotting + the wide, rich growth up top would fit with that. FFOF runs a little hot for some plants coming up from seed (nute sensitivity is strain, even individual-plant, dependent.... so what works perfecto for one plant won't for another, so FFOF defenders hold your fire). But, your plant is old enough now to be beyond it. I've been through this a couple times -- what she once struggled thru (hot soil), she will now love.

I would just run with the nutes in your soil until you go 12/12. There's plenty in there up to that point. When you flip to 12/12, feed with a basic veg formula like Dyna Gro 9-3-6. Stick with that until your height surge levels off (measure regularly and you'll catch it -- it's abrupt), usually about 4-5 weeks into 12/12, then go to a more balanced formula like their 7-9-5 Liquid Grow (or similar.. not really plugging Dyna Gro over all else). I think the FFOF is awesome soil; their nutes I don't much care for -- very acid out of the bottle, and I don't like the fact that they add magnesium in absence of calcium. Calcium:magnesium should be about 2 or 3 to 1 ratio. Their advice to go with bloom nutes right at 12/12 is the biggest bunkum of all.

Like someone mentioned, managing soil moisture in big pots with tiny plants in them is a bitch. I used to just start in big pots; I've been converted to growing in container steps like (party cup to 1 gallon, then to 3 or 5 gallon). Your moisture level stays more consistent, and overwatering is reduced when the pot size runs with plant size.

If it does turn out to be insects, the above still applies. And personally, I'd zap any wildlife with malathion when I'm in veg, if it turns out to be bugs. Just kill 'em and be done. Don't waste your time on BS like neem oil, soap, etc.
 
Kriegs

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
Oh, yeah dude.

I didn't see the new pic's when I was writing that last spiel. That's spider mite or thrip damage, I'm pretty sure - the squarish, see-thru nature of the damage is classic leaf-sucking activity. (... although, I've never personally had either, so maybe someone can confirm for you, or search up some pic's on RIU..).

Like I said... malathion.
 
Kriegs

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
needhelpgrowing said:
I am going to go to home depot and try and get some nutes. Should i get something like 30-10-10 or 20-10-10 or similar? Also any brands I should avoid? I dont want to know the elite expensive stuff, I just want something I can get from a home depot type store but i see lots of complains about miracle grow. So what other brand that is carried everywhere would be recomended? I guess ill let it dry out and put in half the water i used to with 1/2-1/4 the fert it says to use because i read you should dilute it. Please help me with any info and ill head over to the store.
Click to expand...
You saw my other diatribe. If you didn't commit to something already, see if you can find a Dyna Gro dealer near you (dynagro.com - check the map - probably one closer than you think). Their Foliage Pro is 9-3-6 with all micros and good calcium-magnesium balance.

MG nutes are okay, but they and many others contain urea-based N, a known source of root tip burn and a subpar choice for indoor grows. Go for something with a 1:1 or 1:2 ratio of ammoniacal vs nitrate N, and zero urea (will be on the label under "analysis").
 
N

needhelpgrowing

Active Member
Thanks for taking time to look at my plant. I am not sure about the spiders mites though. I see no webbing or any of that and wouldn't the damage be less evenly distributed?

I mean both my first 2 spiky leaves are yellowish and extremely brittle and then its the oldest biggest outer leaves with the spots. Seems like spider mites would distribute damage more randomly and since its almost symmetrical damage on both sides of the plant moving inwards, wouldn't it make more sense to be nutrient related? I would think the mites would concentrate more in one area but if I am wrong please let me know. Especially the two bottom leaves both being very brittle and yellowish makes me confused because why would mites go to those two leaves and do an equal amount of damage (much worse than any other leaves) and then move on? Seems more likely to me they would be effected first by a deficiency but again i am going on my brains logic and not on any experience or knowledge. I am very confused right now.
 
Kriegs

Kriegs

Well-Known Member
needhelpgrowing said:
Thanks for taking time to look at my plant. I am not sure about the spiders mites though. I see no webbing or any of that and wouldn't the damage be less evenly distributed?

I mean both my first 2 spiky leaves are yellowish and extremely brittle and then its the oldest biggest outer leaves with the spots. Seems like spider mites would distribute damage more randomly and since its almost symmetrical damage on both sides of the plant moving inwards, wouldn't it make more sense to be nutrient related? I would think the mites would concentrate more in one area but if I am wrong please let me know. Especially the two bottom leaves both being very brittle and yellowish makes me confused because why would mites go to those two leaves and do an equal amount of damage (much worse than any other leaves) and then move on? Seems more likely to me they would be effected first by a deficiency but again i am going on my brains logic and not on any experience or knowledge. I am very confused right now.
Click to expand...
Hopefully, someone with more insect experience will jump in. Don't forget thrips -- they don't leave webbing, but do similar damage. And insect damage is not always uniform -- there's often a preference for leaf age, shade, moisture -- all of which vary across the plant.

I see the deformity in the first "spiky leaf" -- these first leaves are goofy a lot of time, It looked to me like they had some weirdness right out of the nut based on the first pic's in your journal. I wouldn't worry about that anymore.

If it really isn't insects, then it's like I said otherwise -- a little bit of overnutrition. Also not a worry -- just let them ride for a bit and they'll be fine.

It's not moisture -- that IS one thing that will express itself everywhere on the plant at once. That's out.

Plants don't collapse overnight; you've got time to figure this out. Don't be confused - it's one of two things. Eliminate the insect thing first.
 
N

needhelpgrowing

Active Member
Also if this is any help I took a new picture of the exact same leaf in the picture above and compared them and they are 100% identical. Which makes me think less likely to be mites as they would be causing more damage, and maybe it is nutes and my outside watering has stopped the damage? Hopefully tomorrow morning its less yellow or at least not more yellow.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top