Nitrogen!

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info UB! I trust your opinion 100%. A store here in town carries the full line. At $9 for half a kilo you can't go wrong. Iv'e stocked up on the 31-10-10, 10-52-10 and 20-20-20. Wasn't sure about the bloom food , which is a 15-30-15. I'm not familiar with this ratio, what's your take on it?
Watch that 10-52-10 like I said. The 15-30-15 is fine, in fact anything is fine, until it starts causing problems. High P foods induce stretch and lockout very important minerals, mainly the micros, which causes yellowing leaves, chlorosis, and worst case premature leaf drop.
http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

UB
 

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
Screw his charts and screw his products. You have no proof that ANY of his video productions are bonafide. It's like a car dealership's leasing program.....it benefits them, not you. You certainly aren't there certifying the "tests" as being credible. Anyone can produce a chart with the aid of a computer and printer.
UB
Right, well I'm using his charts to support a conclusion that differs from the one he presents. So in fact, I'm using his information to draw my own conclusions, and those conclusions lead me away from his product line.

I never said his charts or info were 100% authentic...unless I'm doing the research myself I will never just accept something as authentic, but I don't have the time or resources at the moment to do that...I said they illustrate a point (NOT his point, A point), and that point is that Nitrogen is more important than Phosphorous when flowering. Big Mike could be the biggest shyster in the world (and who's to say he isn't) but he presented some interesting points. So he contradicts himself with his products...its not about HIM or his AN stuff...it's about extracting some useful information from the video I linked to.

On a side note, I would also never lease a car...though some people do, because they like to change cars every few years...and if they have the money to do it then so what? Good for them. It DOES benefit the dealership, but it also benefits the lessee by giving them what they want...a shiny new car every year or two without having to buy or sell. I would rather own my car (and I do).
 

filter funker

Active Member
Watch that 10-52-10 like I said. The 15-30-15 is fine, in fact anything is fine, until it starts causing problems. High P foods induce stretch and lockout very important minerals, mainly the micros, which causes yellowing leaves, chlorosis, and worst case premature leaf drop.
http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

UB
That explains alot, I made a mistake with a few plants in my current grow and dosed them with too much P. Experienced all of the symptoms you described. The 10-52-10 I dose once at half strength when the plants root system is developing, then I move to the 30-10-10 or 20-20-20 into flower depending in the needs of the plant. My foilage is so much greener and growth is nearly twice that of the 3 part I was using that cost me $160 bucks. Much easier to mix and handle complete dry ferts as well, nice to spend half the time achieving much better results! Kudos to ya UB! Love your methods!
 

sampson0420

Well-Known Member
I'm off the low N bandwagon too. Couldn't figure out why I was having issues with tiger and big bloom, kept giving nutes and things just kept getting worse. I had burnt tips up top and yellow dying leaves down low. I was so confused. This time I used grow big for veg and have been using mostly jacks 20-20-20 for the first 5 weeks of flowering. Bitches are really happy. I do have 1 or 2 that are a little too dark green so I can tell I'm right at the threshhold. I'll be easing on the tiger bloom the next few weeks just to finish organic.

So here's a vote for jack's classic!
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
.... Big Mike could be the biggest shyster in the world (and who's to say he isn't) but he presented some interesting points. So he contradicts himself with his products...
You've just made my point, it's a credibility issue with this jerk, a matter of trust which has been breached every which way but Sunday regarding the company's MO. Not singling you out, you and I are singing from the same sheet of music. I appreciate your thread and time.

Tio
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
That explains alot, I made a mistake with a few plants in my current grow and dosed them with too much P. Experienced all of the symptoms you described. The 10-52-10 I dose once at half strength when the plants root system is developing, then I move to the 30-10-10 or 20-20-20 into flower depending in the needs of the plant. My foilage is so much greener and growth is nearly twice that of the 3 part I was using that cost me $160 bucks. Much easier to mix and handle complete dry ferts as well, nice to spend half the time achieving much better results! Kudos to ya UB! Love your methods!
Glad it worked out for you. BTW fellas, I do not practice brand loyalty with any of this stuff, and that includes HID hoods, timers, potting mediums, etc.
 

filter funker

Active Member
Glad it worked out for you. BTW fellas, I do not practice brand loyalty with any of this stuff, and that includes HID hoods, timers, potting mediums, etc.
Makes perfect sense, I think brand loyalty is a big part of what generates all the hype and so called marijuana voodoo . Everyone wants to make a buck and it makes the whole game extremely difficult for people who just want to simply grow well and not have to break the bank in the process.
I dont practice brand loyalty either, but im totally game for trying out simple methods that experienced growers such as yourself use that just make perfect sense to me. Give a plant what it needs, it gives you what you need. Plain and simple. The Brand or hype should never be part of that equation...
 
And so was Hitler.

Yes, he has hype down to a science.

Look UB, we all know you don't like AN and that you think their products are crap. But comparing Big Mike to Hitler?

That's a little much, isn't it?

I like it better when you back up your arguments with proof. That seems legit to me, and like something I would actually listen to. When it comes to sort of calling names (and really, Hitler was much worse than anyone...that's an awful comparisons), that's when I check out.

You're a smarter guy than that UB, tell us the facts, back em up, and then we can all be wowed by your excellence.

Name calling? That's for 12 year olds.

:weed:
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
It's not just the brand loyalty, but places like AN along with a lot of internet myth yammering on about mj specific nutes.

MJ has gone from just being a flowering plant to something like a unicorn that can only eat oats that have been fertilized with elf shit and apples from the original tree.:finger:

Thank God, when I started growing way back when, all I had was my various Peters that I used for my orchids and ferns. None of these other lines were around then and I still grew some very dank weed.

So now, when I see all this "you need _____ and ___ and ___ or you will never have a good crop", I know it's just blatant bullshit and hype.:cuss:

The effects might be magical, but the plants needs aren't.:weed:

Wet
 

filter funker

Active Member
It's not just the brand loyalty, but places like AN along with a lot of internet myth yammering on about mj specific nutes.

MJ has gone from just being a flowering plant to something like a unicorn that can only eat oats that have been fertilized with elf shit and apples from the original tree.:finger:

Thank God, when I started growing way back when, all I had was my various Peters that I used for my orchids and ferns. None of these other lines were around then and I still grew some very dank weed.

So now, when I see all this "you need _____ and ___ and ___ or you will never have a good crop", I know it's just blatant bullshit and hype.:cuss:

The effects might be magical, but the plants needs aren't.:weed:

Wet
Bahaha! so true, MJ doesn't need unicorn poop to grow good!
 

cazador

Active Member
Look UB, we all know you don't like AN and that you think their products are crap. But comparing Big Mike to Hitler?

That's a little much, isn't it?

I like it better when you back up your arguments with proof. That seems legit to me, and like something I would actually listen to. When it comes to sort of calling names (and really, Hitler was much worse than anyone...that's an awful comparisons), that's when I check out.

You're a smarter guy than that UB, tell us the facts, back em up, and then we can all be wowed by your excellence.

Name calling? That's for 12 year olds.

:weed:
dude, UB didn't compare Big Mike to Hitler. He compared Hitler to a "genius" and probably meant "crazy genius".
:peace:


Bahaha! so true, MJ doesn't need unicorn poop to grow good!
That's great new! Finally, I can stop my search for unicorn poo!
 

bigwheel

Well-Known Member
Great thread. Lot of good info and smart folks involved. Now if I am getting this down right the consensus of opinion seems to indicate to keep the plant green and healthy up until flush. Now the person who peddles the bloom formula with zero N has to be nuts. I use 3 stage synthetic CNS17 from Botanicare which even the Ripe formula has 1 percent N with the grow and bloom version hovering in the mid to high twos. It seems to make it form some giant hard buds by some mysterious process. Now I can tell the Ripe version is hard on the fan leaves. I havent tried the grow formula yet but got some coming supposedly. Perhaps I should knock off with the Ripe formula and use the Bloom version all the way through?

BW
 

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
Great thread. Lot of good info and smart folks involved. Now if I am getting this down right the consensus of opinion seems to indicate to keep the plant green and healthy up until flush. Now the person who peddles the bloom formula with zero N has to be nuts. I use 3 stage synthetic CNS17 from Botanicare which even the Ripe formula has 1 percent N with the grow and bloom version hovering in the mid to high twos. It seems to make it form some giant hard buds by some mysterious process. Now I can tell the Ripe version is hard on the fan leaves. I havent tried the grow formula yet but got some coming supposedly. Perhaps I should knock off with the Ripe formula and use the Bloom version all the way through?

BW
Nitrogen is important throughout the life of the plant. Don't stop feeding it when it needs it most (the last 3-4 weeks of flower).

Blurb about your product:

"The newest addition to the CNS17 line is coming to retail stores on February 1st. CNS17 Ripe 1-5-4 is a specially designed formula requested by industry professionals to be used in the final 3-4 weeks of the bloom cycle. Ripe has an adjusted NPK of 1-5-4 intended to help promote ripening in fruiting and flowering plants. By reducing nitrogen amounts to a minimum level and maintaining optimal ranges of phosphorous and potassium, the use of Ripe will encourage plants to focus more energy on reproductive functions while still maintaining adequate nutrition levels for foliage. Compatible in both soil and soilless gardens, Ripe is a great addition to users already using the CNS 17 Family line."

Probably isn't that bad...definitely isn't necessary...
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
"The newest addition to the CNS17 line is coming to retail stores on February 1st. CNS17 Ripe 1-5-4 is a specially designed formula requested by industry professionals to be used in the final 3-4 weeks of the bloom cycle. Ripe has an adjusted NPK of 1-5-4 intended to help promote ripening in fruiting and flowering plants. By reducing nitrogen amounts to a minimum level and maintaining optimal ranges of phosphorous and potassium, the use of Ripe will encourage plants to focus more energy on reproductive functions while still maintaining adequate nutrition levels for foliage. Compatible in both soil and soilless gardens, Ripe is a great addition to users already using the CNS 17 Family line."

Probably isn't that bad...definitely isn't necessary...
Dat hype is so ripe, it smells of tripe.
 

Jerry Garcia

Well-Known Member
You've just made my point, it's a credibility issue with this jerk, a matter of trust which has been breached every which way but Sunday regarding the company's MO. Not singling you out, you and I are singing from the same sheet of music. I appreciate your thread and time.

Tio
I know we're on the same page...I just don't give a hoot about him or his company. He came up with some noteworthy information but failed to understand it properly (or chose to not understand it properly, but that may be giving him too much credit).
 

max420thc

Well-Known Member
great thread jerry..it says i cant give you any more rep though for it.
everything i keep hearing other than this thread says you want your plants to drain the nitrogen out of the leaves by the end of the cycle .
i normally do not have a problem with my plants not staying green anymore since i started using blood and bone meal. along with some sea bird guano and of course bat guanos and worm castings.the puruvian sea bird guano is at 10 10 0..im not sure what the last number is but it is high in nitrogen. if you use it to heavy it will smoke the plants.and will smell like ammonia .
thanks for the info jerry.will keep looking in on this post.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
great thread jerry..it says i cant give you any more rep though for it.
everything i keep hearing other than this thread says you want your plants to drain the nitrogen out of the leaves by the end of the cycle .
i normally do not have a problem with my plants not staying green anymore since i started using blood and bone meal. along with some sea bird guano and of course bat guanos and worm castings.the puruvian sea bird guano is at 10 10 0..im not sure what the last number is but it is high in nitrogen. if you use it to heavy it will smoke the plants.and will smell like ammonia .
thanks for the info jerry.will keep looking in on this post.
If you smelling ammonia, you may be going too heavy on the ammoniacal N sources that you're using. I've done it with blood meal.
 

max420thc

Well-Known Member
without doubt. i used it to much one time. and smoked everything. i go real easy on the bird guano now. its easy to over due the bird guano.
i really like reading your posts UB. its always good to hear from old school growers.
however in hempy buckets i do use AN. i use mostly dirt in my little grow.but i think AN is reasonably priced for the base nutes. so long as you are not letting them rip you off on all the additives.
this is just my humble opinion.even in the hempy buckets i use worm castings blood and bone meal though.a little epson salt some azomite.
 
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