CrackerJax
New Member
Only the government is allowed to run a Ponzi scheme....
Global Warming Update
- Thread starter NoDrama
- Start date
Only the government is allowed to run a Ponzi scheme....
Big P
Well-Known Member
the difference is that most of the stuff about bush was made up and most of the stuff about obama is true
thats the difference
P
PadawanBater
Guest
No, you're just deluded in thinking that.
Your acting like a wing-nut man.
Both parties fuck up, it's just that the right always has a moral excuse for why they fucked up instead of admitting they fucked up and taking responsibility for it.
P
PadawanBater
Guest
Bush authorized domestic SPYING. - directly hurt American citizens
Bush carried out the war on Iraq and Afghanistan which has led to over 5,000 American deaths.
Didn't do shit for Katrina victims..
Didn't do shit for 911 cleanup crew victims..
Created an entire new generation of terrorists..
Dude, open your eyes!
dukeofbaja
New Member
Seriously Big P, looking at some of your other posts you have me convinced you can do better than your last few statements. You're talking about the man who said 'Good job, Brownie' and 'Mission Accomplished' and saying he never hurt the American people (or just that you never saw it). I wanted to gauge my eyes out too, I resisted the urge. You, apparently, must have gauged your eyes out
CrackerJax
New Member
Paddy...that is ridiculous thinking.
No one was hurt by the Patriot Act that wasn't/isn't doing something to attract their attention.
The rest of your points aren't even points or correct.
If that's all you have.... wow.
And I was no big fan of Bush.... but please.... get it at least straight.
No one was hurt by the Patriot Act that wasn't/isn't doing something to attract their attention.
The rest of your points aren't even points or correct.
If that's all you have.... wow.
And I was no big fan of Bush.... but please.... get it at least straight.
dukeofbaja
New Member
4,382 Americans dead. For what?
dukeofbaja
New Member
Dude that was ridiculous. And awesome
Big P
Well-Known Member
bush wasnt 100% great
but he was no where near what the opposition made him out to be,
how many people died to secure germany after WWII?
i guess its only worth it when your helping white people
the fact is, there had to be intervention in europe back then and we just squeked by and destroyed hitler before he got the bomb
there had to be intervention in asia, and by gods grace we stopped the japanese
europe emerged dangous and we made it peace full, asia emerged and rose dangous and we made it peace full,
now the arab world emerged dangerous and we are solidify the peace now slowly atleast in Iraq and if we know whats good for us like we used to know what was good for us we would make sure 100% peace acheived by any means necessary, even if maybe more people die on the front end in these wars the lives saved in the long run are many times over
soon if all goes as planned there will be peace in the middle east also
im guessing the next place after that, that will emerge is africa, once thier wars become more sophisticated we will have to go there to make peace
possibly too, it seems to be a pattern,
if you dont agree with the bush policies you basically dont agree with the policies that have made america and the world safe and prosperous as apposed to dangerous and stagnent,
bushs only mistakes were katrina and not doing more to reign in the congress and address the housing bubble that started under billy clint
and FYI, obma and the dem congress has now officially extended the patriot act. so for all the yelling and screaming about it during the bush admin you would think they wouldnt do that??? weird huh
they all screamed for political reasons that bush was a torturer and gitmo was screwing us the world over
and now obama is back peddling like a cartoon and planning to send khalid mohamad back to gitmo for a military tribunal,
its one of the issues that caused them to lose the seat ted kennedy used to have
there was huge concensus from the democrates and republicans for the invasion of iraq,
if im remebering correctly the american pubilc was almost 80% in favour of it during that time
the same biased media that is propping up obama and that helped get him elected was using all these very strong powers of thiers to unmercyfully attack bush because of politics, so much so to the point where it caused us to lose a lot more allies than we would have and we lost almost all support in the world,
what do you expect when every time a foriegner puts on our counties own news media stations they are all talking bad about thier leader
you will think the leader is bad, but the real reason was politics
these things hurt america and caused more of our troops to get killed,
most people crying about the deaths couldnt care less, its just a political prop to waive in the face of you opponent
those boys signed up willing and fought and died with honour,
its non of anyones business if a man or women chooses to fight for thier country, and i bet many if not most would not be pleased with some people using thier valiant deaths in the service of thier country as a cinical political football
just my 25 cents
but you guys may be right Al Gore would have probably handled things better
dont worry i voted for that prick too back in the day
but he was no where near what the opposition made him out to be,
how many people died to secure germany after WWII?
i guess its only worth it when your helping white people
the fact is, there had to be intervention in europe back then and we just squeked by and destroyed hitler before he got the bomb
there had to be intervention in asia, and by gods grace we stopped the japanese
europe emerged dangous and we made it peace full, asia emerged and rose dangous and we made it peace full,
now the arab world emerged dangerous and we are solidify the peace now slowly atleast in Iraq and if we know whats good for us like we used to know what was good for us we would make sure 100% peace acheived by any means necessary, even if maybe more people die on the front end in these wars the lives saved in the long run are many times over
soon if all goes as planned there will be peace in the middle east also
im guessing the next place after that, that will emerge is africa, once thier wars become more sophisticated we will have to go there to make peace
possibly too, it seems to be a pattern,
if you dont agree with the bush policies you basically dont agree with the policies that have made america and the world safe and prosperous as apposed to dangerous and stagnent,
bushs only mistakes were katrina and not doing more to reign in the congress and address the housing bubble that started under billy clint
and FYI, obma and the dem congress has now officially extended the patriot act. so for all the yelling and screaming about it during the bush admin you would think they wouldnt do that??? weird huh
they all screamed for political reasons that bush was a torturer and gitmo was screwing us the world over
and now obama is back peddling like a cartoon and planning to send khalid mohamad back to gitmo for a military tribunal,
its one of the issues that caused them to lose the seat ted kennedy used to have
there was huge concensus from the democrates and republicans for the invasion of iraq,
if im remebering correctly the american pubilc was almost 80% in favour of it during that time
the same biased media that is propping up obama and that helped get him elected was using all these very strong powers of thiers to unmercyfully attack bush because of politics, so much so to the point where it caused us to lose a lot more allies than we would have and we lost almost all support in the world,
what do you expect when every time a foriegner puts on our counties own news media stations they are all talking bad about thier leader
you will think the leader is bad, but the real reason was politics
these things hurt america and caused more of our troops to get killed,
most people crying about the deaths couldnt care less, its just a political prop to waive in the face of you opponent
those boys signed up willing and fought and died with honour,
its non of anyones business if a man or women chooses to fight for thier country, and i bet many if not most would not be pleased with some people using thier valiant deaths in the service of thier country as a cinical political football
just my 25 cents
but you guys may be right Al Gore would have probably handled things better
dont worry i voted for that prick too back in the day
Big P
Well-Known Member
Vegas jobless rate hits all-time high of 13.1%...
Aug. 21, 2009
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal
Las Vegas jobless rate hits all-time high of 13.1 percent
By JENNIFER ROBISON
LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
Nevada's unemployment rose to 12.5 percent in July, while joblessness in especially hard-hit Las Vegas surged to 13.1 percent. Its the highest jobless rate both statewide and locally since the state began tracking data in 1976.
FULL STORY BELOW
No green shoots for Nevada.
As economists and policymakers nationwide hover over the tender little economic tendrils that herald recovery from recession, Nevadas economy looks as barren as the Mojave Desert.
As a trickle of data points to the national downturns end, Nevadas economy continues its descent. Joblessness in the Silver State jumped to 12.5 percent in July, while unemployment in hard-hit Las Vegas leapt to 13.1 percent. Both state and local unemployment scored their highest levels in 33 years of tracking, the state Department of Employment, Training and Rehabilitation said today.
Nevadas jobless rate was more than double its level in July 2008, when 6.6 percent of the states residents were out of work. In Las Vegas, unemployment was at 6.8 percent in July 2008.
Bill Anderson, chief economist with the employment department, said Nevada remains stuck in the longest, deepest recession since World War II, and recent labor-market trends dont signal any improvement.
Joblessness in Nevada jumped 1.9 percentage points from April to June, the biggest three-month spike on record. Nevada shed nearly 28,000 jobs in the three-month period, including 15,000 jobs from June to July alone. Nationally, unemployment has moderated, declining from 9.5 percent to 9.4 percent between June and July.
In all, 179,300 Nevadans are unemployed and actively seeking work.
It shows just how weak the economy is, that even this late in the recession, were still losing so many jobs, said Jered McDonald, an economist with the employment department.
Nevada has the nations third-highest unemployment rate. The Silver State trails only Michigan, with 15 percent joblessness, and Rhode Island, where unemployment is at 12.7 percent. Las Vegas has born the brunt of the states hard times.
The city recorded the highest jobless rate of any of Nevadas statistical areas, and it also ranks among the top five markets of its size nationwide for unemployment. Las Vegas lost 11,900 jobs from June to July, and 60,000 jobs year-over-year in July. The employment department blamed the job cuts on cutbacks in local government, slumping convention business and a sustained drop in construction activity.
Las Vegas also hurts more today because it enjoyed an especially vibrant boom era, said Jeremy Aguero, a principal in local research firm Applied Analysis. The city grew more than most other markets in the 1990s and early 2000s.
But that expansion came largely from unsustainble levels of consumer spending, Aguero noted, and it relied on a high concentration of workers in the volatile construction sector.
Plus, Las Vegas feels the downturn more than other areas of Nevada because its less diverse, McDonald said. For example, Reno (12.1 percent unemployed) and Carson City (11.7 percent jobless) house more manufacturers, distribution centers, high-tech companies and professional and business services than Las Vegas has, and mining protects the states rural areas from the slump. Unemployment is just 6.7 percent in in Elko County, where high gold prices allow businesses to put the labor force to work.
As high as unemployment is, the broader picture is even bleaker, said Keith Schwer, director of the Center for Business and Economic Research at the University of Nevada-Las Vegas.
The employment departments published jobless rate doesnt include discouraged workers whove stopped hunting for jobs, and it doesnt count underemployed Nevadans whod like to work full-time but can find only part-time jobs.
If you factor in the discouraged and the underemployed, Nevada had a 12-month average of 15.2 percent joblessness in the second quarter. McDonald said he suspects the rate is even higher now perhaps nearly double the stated unemployment rate, and certainly close to 20 percent.
Aguero sees underemployment written all over the latest figures that gauge hours on the job. The average number of hours worked by all private-sector employees in Nevada was 35.8 hours a week in June. Thats down from 37.5 hours in June 2007. Average weekly earnings also dropped, falling from $739 in June 2008 to $706 a year later.
This other layer of unemployment is pretty problematic for us, Aguero said. It says theres substantial compression being pushed down on the average worker, and their ability to earn is much lower. But more important than that, theres a general belief that both hours and wages will have to rebound before unemployment rebounds. These numbers are a greater signal on whether the economy is showing signs of improvement.
Even the basic statewide unemployment stats show few signs of improvement. Just two of Nevadas major employment categories grew year-over-year in July. Mining added 100 jobs, for growth of 0.8 percent, while the combined category of health and education services gained 2,200 positions, or 2.3 percent.
Construction lost 32,200 jobs, or 25.7 percent of its work force. Manufacturing employment shrank by 3,800 positions, or 7.8 percent. Leisure and hospitality companies cut 22,700 jobs, or 6.8 percent of their industrys work force. The banking field was down 4,200 jobs, or 6.8 percent, while professional and business services such as law firms, accounting businesses and engineering companies slashed 10,700 jobs, or 7.1 percent of the sectors work force. Governments statewide cut 4,400 jobs, or 2.9 percent of their total work force.
Theres also no indication that the labor pool is shrinking from outmigration or any other cause. The states work force expanded 2 percent from June to July, growing by 28,000 people to 1.41 million workers. The local labor force grew 2.3 percent, or 23,200 people, to just more than 1 million. A bigger work force could contribute to gains in unemployment, while a smaller work force could curb jobless levels.
Contact reporter Jennifer Robison at jrobison@reviewjournal.com or 702-380-4512.
Aug. 21, 2009
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal
Las Vegas jobless rate hits all-time high of 13.1 percent
By JENNIFER ROBISON
LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
Nevada's unemployment rose to 12.5 percent in July, while joblessness in especially hard-hit Las Vegas surged to 13.1 percent. Its the highest jobless rate both statewide and locally since the state began tracking data in 1976.
FULL STORY BELOW
No green shoots for Nevada.
As economists and policymakers nationwide hover over the tender little economic tendrils that herald recovery from recession, Nevadas economy looks as barren as the Mojave Desert.
As a trickle of data points to the national downturns end, Nevadas economy continues its descent. Joblessness in the Silver State jumped to 12.5 percent in July, while unemployment in hard-hit Las Vegas leapt to 13.1 percent. Both state and local unemployment scored their highest levels in 33 years of tracking, the state Department of Employment, Training and Rehabilitation said today.
Nevadas jobless rate was more than double its level in July 2008, when 6.6 percent of the states residents were out of work. In Las Vegas, unemployment was at 6.8 percent in July 2008.
Bill Anderson, chief economist with the employment department, said Nevada remains stuck in the longest, deepest recession since World War II, and recent labor-market trends dont signal any improvement.
Joblessness in Nevada jumped 1.9 percentage points from April to June, the biggest three-month spike on record. Nevada shed nearly 28,000 jobs in the three-month period, including 15,000 jobs from June to July alone. Nationally, unemployment has moderated, declining from 9.5 percent to 9.4 percent between June and July.
In all, 179,300 Nevadans are unemployed and actively seeking work.
It shows just how weak the economy is, that even this late in the recession, were still losing so many jobs, said Jered McDonald, an economist with the employment department.
Nevada has the nations third-highest unemployment rate. The Silver State trails only Michigan, with 15 percent joblessness, and Rhode Island, where unemployment is at 12.7 percent. Las Vegas has born the brunt of the states hard times.
The city recorded the highest jobless rate of any of Nevadas statistical areas, and it also ranks among the top five markets of its size nationwide for unemployment. Las Vegas lost 11,900 jobs from June to July, and 60,000 jobs year-over-year in July. The employment department blamed the job cuts on cutbacks in local government, slumping convention business and a sustained drop in construction activity.
Las Vegas also hurts more today because it enjoyed an especially vibrant boom era, said Jeremy Aguero, a principal in local research firm Applied Analysis. The city grew more than most other markets in the 1990s and early 2000s.
But that expansion came largely from unsustainble levels of consumer spending, Aguero noted, and it relied on a high concentration of workers in the volatile construction sector.
Plus, Las Vegas feels the downturn more than other areas of Nevada because its less diverse, McDonald said. For example, Reno (12.1 percent unemployed) and Carson City (11.7 percent jobless) house more manufacturers, distribution centers, high-tech companies and professional and business services than Las Vegas has, and mining protects the states rural areas from the slump. Unemployment is just 6.7 percent in in Elko County, where high gold prices allow businesses to put the labor force to work.
As high as unemployment is, the broader picture is even bleaker, said Keith Schwer, director of the Center for Business and Economic Research at the University of Nevada-Las Vegas.
The employment departments published jobless rate doesnt include discouraged workers whove stopped hunting for jobs, and it doesnt count underemployed Nevadans whod like to work full-time but can find only part-time jobs.
If you factor in the discouraged and the underemployed, Nevada had a 12-month average of 15.2 percent joblessness in the second quarter. McDonald said he suspects the rate is even higher now perhaps nearly double the stated unemployment rate, and certainly close to 20 percent.
Aguero sees underemployment written all over the latest figures that gauge hours on the job. The average number of hours worked by all private-sector employees in Nevada was 35.8 hours a week in June. Thats down from 37.5 hours in June 2007. Average weekly earnings also dropped, falling from $739 in June 2008 to $706 a year later.
This other layer of unemployment is pretty problematic for us, Aguero said. It says theres substantial compression being pushed down on the average worker, and their ability to earn is much lower. But more important than that, theres a general belief that both hours and wages will have to rebound before unemployment rebounds. These numbers are a greater signal on whether the economy is showing signs of improvement.
Even the basic statewide unemployment stats show few signs of improvement. Just two of Nevadas major employment categories grew year-over-year in July. Mining added 100 jobs, for growth of 0.8 percent, while the combined category of health and education services gained 2,200 positions, or 2.3 percent.
Construction lost 32,200 jobs, or 25.7 percent of its work force. Manufacturing employment shrank by 3,800 positions, or 7.8 percent. Leisure and hospitality companies cut 22,700 jobs, or 6.8 percent of their industrys work force. The banking field was down 4,200 jobs, or 6.8 percent, while professional and business services such as law firms, accounting businesses and engineering companies slashed 10,700 jobs, or 7.1 percent of the sectors work force. Governments statewide cut 4,400 jobs, or 2.9 percent of their total work force.
Theres also no indication that the labor pool is shrinking from outmigration or any other cause. The states work force expanded 2 percent from June to July, growing by 28,000 people to 1.41 million workers. The local labor force grew 2.3 percent, or 23,200 people, to just more than 1 million. A bigger work force could contribute to gains in unemployment, while a smaller work force could curb jobless levels.
Contact reporter Jennifer Robison at jrobison@reviewjournal.com or 702-380-4512.
P
PadawanBater
Guest
how many people died to secure germany after WWII?
i guess its only worth it when your helping white people
WW2 and the current state of war in the middle east are not comparable. One is arguably justified, the other is not. Defeating Hitler and the spread of the Nazi party was essential to world peace, defeating Sadaam and destabilizing the middle east is essential to the profits of corporate America, and contrary to world peace.
Also loved the racist comment you made. I guess when I advocate intervention in countries in Africa against warlords stealing from international food supplies, I only care about those white people, huh?...
the fact is, there had to be intervention in europe back then and we just squeked by and destroyed hitler before he got the bomb
Agreed.
there had to be intervention in asia, and by gods grace we stopped the japanese
I wonder if that was the same God the Japanese were praying to...
europe emerged dangous and we made it peace full, asia emerged and rose dangous and we made it peace full,
No, read some history. There have been a few different conflicts that have escalated into all out war in Europe and Asia. Two of which the US has played a major roll. To this day - no peace, and I'd argue the world is in a more dangerous place right now than we've ever been before, excluding the Cuban Missile Crisis.
now the arab world emerged dangerous and we are solidify the peace now slowly atleast in Iraq and if we know whats good for us like we used to know what was good for us we would make sure 100% peace acheived by any means necessary, even if maybe more people die on the front end in these wars the lives saved in the long run are many times over
That's an unbelievable statement to make, something you would see the bad guy general in a movie say. So what it comes down to for you is the ends justify the means.
And you can't make that statement make any sense at all because we both know you can't tell the future. It's something supporters of modern warfare like to say to justify their current operations. How the hell do you know if the region is going to be more stable after we've left? Huh, how do you know that?
Take examples from history...
-Cold War
-Korea
-Vietnam
-Somalia
Are ANY of those regions MORE STABLE after the US military having intervened in the conflicts?
soon if all goes as planned there will be peace in the middle east also
That's the stupidest thing you've ever said on this forum imo. They have been saying there will be peace in the middle east for 2 thousand years, to think the American military would be responsible for peace is nothing short of mental retardation. The one and only way we will ever attain worldwide peace is by getting rid of the fairy tales that guide billions of lives.
Atheism is the key to world peace.
im guessing the next place after that, that will emerge is africa, once thier wars become more sophisticated we will have to go there to make peace
possibly too, it seems to be a pattern,
Dude, our roll as a nation IS NOT world police. It's not our business to get involved in other countries affairs.
if you dont agree with the bush policies you basically dont agree with the policies that have made america and the world safe and prosperous as apposed to dangerous and stagnent,
Scratch that... this might actually be the stupidest thing you've said.
Fuck your appeal to patriotism. The policies of the last century were designed for corporate America, and fuck the citizens and fuck the rest of the world so long as they get paid.
and FYI, obma and the dem congress has now officially extended the patriot act. so for all the yelling and screaming about it during the bush admin you would think they wouldnt do that??? weird huh
Another obvious window into the game politicians play. Politicians are liars P, big surprise. You only think the Dems lie and turn the blind eye to the Reps who do it.
they all screamed for political reasons that bush was a torturer and gitmo was screwing us the world over
Clearly.
and now obama is back peddling like a cartoon and planning to send khalid mohamad back to gitmo for a military tribunal,
The GOP has been non stop bitching about trying him in NYC, where they planned to begin with. If Obama decided to do it there, your party front runners would have said "OMG!! Terrorists are going to escape!! Obama isn't going to keep Americans safe!!" - decides to try him somewhere else and he's "back peddling"... If you can't see the obvious game being played with you by this example I don't know what else to tell you man... Both parties do it. Both parties are designed to FUCK YOU and FUCK ME. Not just the Dem party.
its one of the issues that caused them to lose the seat ted kennedy used to have
It's all smoke and mirrors man, none of it is legitimate.
there was huge concensus from the democrates and republicans for the invasion of iraq,
Yeah, and I bet if I had a national stage to spit completely biased "facts" that never got checked - I could get the fuckin' world to invade the north pole and get millions of kids to think Santa is a terrorist.
if im remebering correctly the american pubilc was almost 80% in favour of it during that time
The American public was fed lies. This is a fact. We went to war based on lies. The American public and the rest of the world was tricked into war by DC conmen.
the same biased media that is propping up obama and that helped get him elected was using all these very strong powers of thiers to unmercyfully attack bush because of politics, so much so to the point where it caused us to lose a lot more allies than we would have and we lost almost all support in the world,
The American media has unofficially become the 4th branch of our government.
what do you expect when every time a foriegner puts on our counties own news media stations they are all talking bad about thier leader
American media is heavily biased towards American views, American views are heavily influenced by American politicians and American politicians are heavily influenced by American corporations.
you will think the leader is bad, but the real reason was politics
these things hurt america and caused more of our troops to get killed,
That's a bullshit talking point. Explain it to me how American media led to more American deaths.
most people crying about the deaths couldnt care less, its just a political prop to waive in the face of you opponent
those boys signed up willing and fought and died with honour,
You know who couldn't care less about the deaths? The idiots still supporting the war and the scum running it.
A lot of them signed on thinking they were doing the right thing, but the entire thing is a lie. They died for a lie, they died to line greedy fucks pockets with defense dollars. They thought they were fighting for something righteous, their intentions were good and they themselves are honorable and brave and should be treated like heroes for their service, but they went in because of lies. Most of them now know this - which is what's led mostly in the declining morale, they don't think it's worth it anymore - not the way the media portrays it.
its non of anyones business if a man or women chooses to fight for thier country, and i bet many if not most would not be pleased with some people using thier valiant deaths in the service of thier country as a cinical political football
just my 25 cents
You glorify them then spit in their face and never understand the true reason why people fight for this country. Grow up man.
i guess its only worth it when your helping white people
WW2 and the current state of war in the middle east are not comparable. One is arguably justified, the other is not. Defeating Hitler and the spread of the Nazi party was essential to world peace, defeating Sadaam and destabilizing the middle east is essential to the profits of corporate America, and contrary to world peace.
Also loved the racist comment you made. I guess when I advocate intervention in countries in Africa against warlords stealing from international food supplies, I only care about those white people, huh?...
the fact is, there had to be intervention in europe back then and we just squeked by and destroyed hitler before he got the bomb
Agreed.
there had to be intervention in asia, and by gods grace we stopped the japanese
I wonder if that was the same God the Japanese were praying to...
europe emerged dangous and we made it peace full, asia emerged and rose dangous and we made it peace full,
No, read some history. There have been a few different conflicts that have escalated into all out war in Europe and Asia. Two of which the US has played a major roll. To this day - no peace, and I'd argue the world is in a more dangerous place right now than we've ever been before, excluding the Cuban Missile Crisis.
now the arab world emerged dangerous and we are solidify the peace now slowly atleast in Iraq and if we know whats good for us like we used to know what was good for us we would make sure 100% peace acheived by any means necessary, even if maybe more people die on the front end in these wars the lives saved in the long run are many times over
That's an unbelievable statement to make, something you would see the bad guy general in a movie say. So what it comes down to for you is the ends justify the means.
And you can't make that statement make any sense at all because we both know you can't tell the future. It's something supporters of modern warfare like to say to justify their current operations. How the hell do you know if the region is going to be more stable after we've left? Huh, how do you know that?
Take examples from history...
-Cold War
-Korea
-Vietnam
-Somalia
Are ANY of those regions MORE STABLE after the US military having intervened in the conflicts?
soon if all goes as planned there will be peace in the middle east also
That's the stupidest thing you've ever said on this forum imo. They have been saying there will be peace in the middle east for 2 thousand years, to think the American military would be responsible for peace is nothing short of mental retardation. The one and only way we will ever attain worldwide peace is by getting rid of the fairy tales that guide billions of lives.
Atheism is the key to world peace.
im guessing the next place after that, that will emerge is africa, once thier wars become more sophisticated we will have to go there to make peace
possibly too, it seems to be a pattern,
Dude, our roll as a nation IS NOT world police. It's not our business to get involved in other countries affairs.
if you dont agree with the bush policies you basically dont agree with the policies that have made america and the world safe and prosperous as apposed to dangerous and stagnent,
Scratch that... this might actually be the stupidest thing you've said.
Fuck your appeal to patriotism. The policies of the last century were designed for corporate America, and fuck the citizens and fuck the rest of the world so long as they get paid.
and FYI, obma and the dem congress has now officially extended the patriot act. so for all the yelling and screaming about it during the bush admin you would think they wouldnt do that??? weird huh
Another obvious window into the game politicians play. Politicians are liars P, big surprise.
You only think the Dems lie and turn the blind eye to the Reps who do it.they all screamed for political reasons that bush was a torturer and gitmo was screwing us the world over
Clearly.
and now obama is back peddling like a cartoon and planning to send khalid mohamad back to gitmo for a military tribunal,
The GOP has been non stop bitching about trying him in NYC, where they planned to begin with. If Obama decided to do it there, your party front runners would have said "OMG!! Terrorists are going to escape!! Obama isn't going to keep Americans safe!!" - decides to try him somewhere else and he's "back peddling"... If you can't see the obvious game being played with you by this example I don't know what else to tell you man... Both parties do it. Both parties are designed to FUCK YOU and FUCK ME. Not just the Dem party.
its one of the issues that caused them to lose the seat ted kennedy used to have
It's all smoke and mirrors man, none of it is legitimate.
there was huge concensus from the democrates and republicans for the invasion of iraq,
Yeah, and I bet if I had a national stage to spit completely biased "facts" that never got checked - I could get the fuckin' world to invade the north pole and get millions of kids to think Santa is a terrorist.
if im remebering correctly the american pubilc was almost 80% in favour of it during that time
The American public was fed lies. This is a fact. We went to war based on lies. The American public and the rest of the world was tricked into war by DC conmen.
the same biased media that is propping up obama and that helped get him elected was using all these very strong powers of thiers to unmercyfully attack bush because of politics, so much so to the point where it caused us to lose a lot more allies than we would have and we lost almost all support in the world,
The American media has unofficially become the 4th branch of our government.
what do you expect when every time a foriegner puts on our counties own news media stations they are all talking bad about thier leader
American media is heavily biased towards American views, American views are heavily influenced by American politicians and American politicians are heavily influenced by American corporations.
you will think the leader is bad, but the real reason was politics
these things hurt america and caused more of our troops to get killed,
That's a bullshit talking point. Explain it to me how American media led to more American deaths.
most people crying about the deaths couldnt care less, its just a political prop to waive in the face of you opponent
those boys signed up willing and fought and died with honour,
You know who couldn't care less about the deaths? The idiots still supporting the war and the scum running it.
A lot of them signed on thinking they were doing the right thing, but the entire thing is a lie. They died for a lie, they died to line greedy fucks pockets with defense dollars. They thought they were fighting for something righteous, their intentions were good and they themselves are honorable and brave and should be treated like heroes for their service, but they went in because of lies. Most of them now know this - which is what's led mostly in the declining morale, they don't think it's worth it anymore - not the way the media portrays it.
its non of anyones business if a man or women chooses to fight for thier country, and i bet many if not most would not be pleased with some people using thier valiant deaths in the service of thier country as a cinical political football
just my 25 cents
You glorify them then spit in their face and never understand the true reason why people fight for this country. Grow up man.
Big P
Well-Known Member
so pada if i came to you and said if you dont shoot me in the face right now, that guy over there is going to kill my 2 kids
would the ends justify the means or would you avoid the tough decision and allow my kids to die,
just a hypotheical, im not saying you could do such a thing or even i could go through with somthing like that but the fact is logically you should shoot me so my kids could live even though shooting me is wrong.
if a guy has a nuke and its on a timer, it would be "wrong" for us to torture him to try to find it
but it would be wronger to not do anythign and allow millions to die
good debate man
would the ends justify the means or would you avoid the tough decision and allow my kids to die,
just a hypotheical, im not saying you could do such a thing or even i could go through with somthing like that but the fact is logically you should shoot me so my kids could live even though shooting me is wrong.
if a guy has a nuke and its on a timer, it would be "wrong" for us to torture him to try to find it
but it would be wronger to not do anythign and allow millions to die
good debate man
CrackerJax
New Member
Paddy's big flaw in his foundation is he thinks terrorism is a valid way to accomplish goals.
Uhhh, no.
Uhhh, no.
P
PadawanBater
Guest
Every scenario is fishing for an emotional response.
Got news for you man, I don't base my opinions on emotions. I know that emotions cloud judgment. Emotions influence opinions and the last thing I want when I'm deciding something important is impaired judgment. It's just like alcohol or drugs.
Is it better to suspend our morals and ethics and all that we've worked for and all that we've achieved as a nation and as a culture to possibly get a small amount of information from a suspect that may or may not save lives, depending on who is interpreting the data after the fact?
I would argue no, it's not. Philosophers through the ages have explained and pinpointed exactly why it's not. A good one to look up is John Locke. Jefferson also touches on this in his writings. It's outlined in our Bill of Rights. Those who advocate torture, under any circumstance, are opposing the 8th amendment.
Not to mention, in their eyes, it gives our "enemies" on the battlefield justification.
No P, the ends do not justify the means.
Got news for you man, I don't base my opinions on emotions. I know that emotions cloud judgment. Emotions influence opinions and the last thing I want when I'm deciding something important is impaired judgment. It's just like alcohol or drugs.
Is it better to suspend our morals and ethics and all that we've worked for and all that we've achieved as a nation and as a culture to possibly get a small amount of information from a suspect that may or may not save lives, depending on who is interpreting the data after the fact?
I would argue no, it's not. Philosophers through the ages have explained and pinpointed exactly why it's not. A good one to look up is John Locke. Jefferson also touches on this in his writings. It's outlined in our Bill of Rights. Those who advocate torture, under any circumstance, are opposing the 8th amendment.
Not to mention, in their eyes, it gives our "enemies" on the battlefield justification.
No P, the ends do not justify the means.
P
PadawanBater
Guest
"terrorist" is subjective Cracker, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
Would you call Malcolm X a terrorist?
Would you call Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. a terrorist?
How bout Ghandi?
No? Because all of them have been called terrorist.
And uhh... I think you might have missed something... I'm arguing in favor of the Bill of Rights, P is arguing against it by advocating torture under certain circumstances (and you seem to be supporting his position), which is a pretty common tactic among... yep, you guessed it, terrorists.
Big P
Well-Known Member
your nieve if you think america has not had people tortured since americans inception
if anything is has happend up until now.
just under cover
CrackerJax
New Member
Actually terrorism has a very clear definition.
Calling it a different name only fools the .... fools.
Condoning terrorism means you have discarded the principles of a modern society.
Does terrorism occur? Most certainly. Condoning it empowers it however.
Calling it a different name only fools the .... fools.
Condoning terrorism means you have discarded the principles of a modern society.
Does terrorism occur? Most certainly. Condoning it empowers it however.
Mindmelted
Well-Known Member
Lincoln was america's first terrorist....lol
Malcolm x was a criminal drug user and bigot racist....IMO
Malcolm x was a criminal drug user and bigot racist....IMO