How many of you are ex-diehard Obama lovers

[medicineman]

Greed (the bad kind) is what makes people like you think that they have a right to others labor.

Greed (the good kind) is what makes a committed doctor slave away for your, and their, benefit.

Good greed, Yeah that's a hot one. Hey guys, let's get greedy and take all them peoples money and invest in bad credit swaps, afterall, the government will back us if we fail, yeah it's good greed. Wall street vandals at their best, good greed, right..................

 

[Johnnyorganic]

I do understand your position on this and I respect it, Johnny. And honestly, if it weren't for your input this thread would actually be unbearably stupid...

But I do think that you are putting your fundamentalist interpretation of the constitution and your high principals of state rights in front of common sense and pragmatism. The problem with health insurance is a national one and requires a federal response. States can always go above and beyond what is required federally, but you need a set of rules that apply to insurance companies in all 50 states. And honestly, conservatives also love the idea of selling insurance across state lines so if we do that AND let states make their own rules, we will end up with all the insurance companies having their headquarters in delaware, texas or wherever rules are the laxest and you can sell bullshit coverage as insurance. And guess who gets fucked over? You and me.

Anyhow, tell me, Johnny. What would your ideal insurance system look like on the state level? And don't cop out by saying 'that's up for each state to decide, it's about the principle' or something along those lines.

Now that we are framing the issue in terms of the 10th Amendment; I would choose to live in a state where I could be responsible for my own insurance.

But, I understand that's not realistic; because today most people are irresponsible.

I would be open to a community clinic approach, very much like the police and the fire station. Not a hospital, but a wellness clinic where medics perform rudimentary care and basic diagnosis before referral to an actual physician.

Insurance takes over after that, purchased outright in the free market.

If you choose not to purchase health insurance, it is not my problem.

Find a charity hospital, or do without. I really don't care.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

If John was consistent, he'd say that the new health care law should mimic Roe v Wade in its federal application. After all, states shouldn't be involved in passing laws pertaining to the private bodies of individuals (right?). That's the realm of the federal government (right?).

But he's not.

So he can't.

We are talking health insurance/care and you are talking privacy.

In the context of the this discussion, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm Walter.

You're Donnie.

Shut the fuck up, Donnie.

 

[dukeofbaja]

Donny: What's a... pederast, Walter?
Walter Sobchak: Shut the fuck up, Donny.

EDIT - Now I need to get high and watch this movie.

 

[ChChoda]

I'm Walter.

You're Donnie.

Shut the fuck up, Donnie.

Yeah, but you think a federal public option should be offered, in addition to Medicare and Medicaid. And you think the feds should regulate abortion, not the states. And you think Mike Huckabee is a good guy. And you think the 10th amendment should apply to gay marriage "rights". And...

I know, STFU...

 

[ChChoda]

Good greed, Yeah that's a hot one. Hey guys, let's get greedy and take all them peoples money and invest in bad credit swaps, afterall, the government will back us if we fail, yeah it's good greed. Wall street vandals at their best, good greed, right..................

We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word many mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name - liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names - liberty and tyranny.

-Abe Lincoln-

 

[ChChoda]

To borrow a phrase from the Community Organizer:

But, I understand that's not realistic; because today most people are irresponsible.

You share Obama's praxis, John. And he, too, was a Constitutional scholar...

 

[Johnnyorganic]

You share Obama's praxis, John. And he, too, was a Constitutional scholar...

...Who never wrote on scholarly paper on the Constitution (or any other subject) appearing in a law journal of any kind.

Yeah, but you think a federal public option should be offered, in addition to Medicare and Medicaid. And you think the feds should regulate abortion, not the states. And you think Mike Huckabee is a good guy. And you think the 10th amendment should apply to gay marriage "rights". And...

I know, STFU...

Please show me where I said the public option should be offered.

Abortion is a privacy issue. Privacy is a Constitutional matter.

And as far as Medicare and Medicaid are concerned, they too are unconstitutional. But the in the context of the current situation, expanding both programs slightly to include the 10 million people who are uninsured (once you eliminate illegal aliens; people who can afford to buy it but do not; and people already eligible for existing programs but choose not to participate) is far better than a government takeover of 1/6th of our economy.

Mike Huckabee is a nice guy. I knew him personally when he was in Seminary because he was a member of my church. Why do you keep harping on that?

I never said the 10th Amendment applied to gay rights. Try the 14th Amendment.

Nevermind your slip. Your moron is showing.

 

[meowmix]

Obama wasn't a constitutional law professor. He said he was though.

 

[ChChoda]

Please show me where I said the public option should be offered.

I would be open to a community clinic approach, very much like the police and the fire station. Not a hospital, but a wellness clinic where medics perform rudimentary care and basic diagnosis before referral to an actual physician.

And as far as Medicare and Medicaid are concerned, they too are unconstitutional. But the in the context of the current situation, expanding both programs slightly to include the 10 million people who are unisnured (once you eliminate illegal aliens; people who can afford to buy it but do not; and people already eligible for existing programs but choose not to participate) is far better than a government takeover of 1/6th of our economy.

So we don't need the community clinics now?

Mike Huckabee is a nice guy. I knew him personally when he was in Seminary because he was a member of my church. Why do you keep harping on that?

Because you knew him seminally, he's a nice guy? He hates on gays, man! Which makes you an outspoken proponent of gay bashing Republican politicians. Your subjective streak is showing...as always.

I never said the 10th Amendment applied to gay rights. Try the 14th Amendment.

Your moron is showing.

 

[ChChoda]

Obama wasn't a constitutional law professor. He said he was though.

The subversive leftist will always hide behind the constitution. What you can't see is the pervert jerking off on it, all the while...

 

[ChChoda]

Abortion is a privacy issue. Privacy is a Constitutional matter.

The Constitution says that states shall be allowed to govern themselves without undue interference from Washington DC. You piss on the Constitution with your bastardization of it.





Article IV - The States

Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.


Section 4 - Republican government
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

The Constitution says that states shall be allowed to govern themselves without undue interference from Washington DC. You piss on the Constitution with your bastardization of it.

Article IV - The States

Section 1 - Each State to Honor all others
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.


Section 4 - Republican government
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

The Constitution states and I quote, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The right to privacy applies to all of us equally, as does the right to equal protection under the law.

There's that pesky 10th Amendment again.

You piss on your own praxis.

So we don't need the community clinics now?

As long as they are administered by each state and not the Feds, I can live with that approach.

But even then, where do you get public option from the limited community clinic scenario I described?

Oh yeah, Subjectiveman only sees what he wants to see.

Because you knew him seminally, he's a nice guy? He hates on gays, man! Which makes you an outspoken proponent of gay bashing Republican politicians. Your subjective streak is showing...as always.

Saying someone is a nice guy makes one a proponent? I agree with him on one issue, the Fair Tax. Yet in your tiny intellect that equates to wholehearted support.

Your moron is showing.

No, the consensus is in.

It's yours.

 

[ChChoda]

The Constitution states and I quote, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The right to privacy applies to all of us equally, as does the right to equal protection under the law.

There's that pesky 10th Amendment again.

You piss on your own praxis.

As long as they are administered by each state and not the Feds, I can live with that approach.

But even then, where do you get public option from the limited community clinic scenario I described?

Oh yeah, Subjectiveman only sees what he wants to see.

Saying someone is a nice guy makes one a proponent? I agree with him on one issue, the Fair Tax. Yet in your tiny intellect that equates to wholehearted support.

No, the consensus is in.

It's yours.

The right to privacy? Where's that enumerated?

What other "rights" are on that list of yours?

 

[Johnnyorganic]

The right to privacy? Where's that enumerated?

In general, see the Fourth Amendment.

In the context of Roe v. Wade. See the Fourteenth Amendment, specifically the Due Process Clause.

What other "rights" are on that list of yours?

If you really need me to spell out for you your Constitutional rights, it might be better if you did not use cannabis.

You've apparently smoked yourself stupid.

 

[ChChoda]

In general, see the Fourth Amendment.

Nope, it's not in there, John...if for a reasonable purpose, or if they got probable cause, privacy goes out the window. So it's obviously not a "right".

Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

In the context of Roe v. Wade. See the Fourteenth Amendment, specifically the Due Process Clause.

Nope, it's not in there, John. It says nothing about the "right" to privacy.


Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

If you really need me to spell out for you your Constitutional rights, it might be better if you did not use cannabis.

You?

You've apparently smoked yourself stupid.

Better to have smoked oneself stupid, than to have been born dumb, John...

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Nope, it's not in there, John...if for a reasonable purpose, or if they got probable cause, privacy goes out the window. So it's obviously not a "right".

Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Nope, it's not in there, John. It says nothing about the "right" to privacy.

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

You?

So you are saying, and kindly correct me if I am wrong, that we have no reasonable expectation of privacy as guaranteed by the Constitution?

You are fond of cutting and pasting but do you ever bother to read any of it beforehand?

You've pasted court decisions before so I am reasonably certain you know how to look one up.

Look up the decision for Rove v. Wade and read both the affirming and the dissenting opinions.

Substantive due process - look into it.

Better to have smoked oneself stupid, than to have been born dumb, John...

The voice of experience.

 

[ChChoda]

So you are saying, and kindly correct me if I am wrong, that we have no reasonable expectation of privacy as guaranteed by the Constitution?

You should take the time to read what I cut and paste before spouting off at the fingers, John. Here it is...

Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Privacy, privacy, privacy...

Should men be able to demand the women they impregnate have an abortion so as to keep the sexual rendezvous private? After all, the man is alive, the fetus is not. The man has a reasonable expectation of privacy, the fetus does not. Right or wrong, John?

If a court says yes, would that make it jive with the constitution, John? Could you make it fit, John?

 

[Johnnyorganic]

You should take the time to read what I cut and paste before spouting off at the fingers, John. Here it is...

Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Privacy, privacy, privacy...

Aside from a smart-assed remark and another cut and paste, you avoided answering my question.

"Secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects." It appears pretty straightforward to me that privacy is an enumerated right.

But I will ask you again, just for clarification:
It is your opinion that we have no reasonable expectation of privacy as guaranteed by the Constitution?

Should men be able to demand the women they impregnate have an abortion so as to keep the sexual rendezvous private? After all, the man is alive, the fetus is not. The man has a reasonable expectation of privacy, the fetus does not. Right or wrong, John?

If a court says yes, would that make it jive with the constitution, John? Could you make it fit, John?

Wrong.

Once the dude squirts in his lady he relinquishes control of his wigglers.

When it comes to privacy, the dude has no standing in the scenario you describe.

It becomes her decision how to proceed. She has the right to be secure in her person. Her privacy is the only consideration when the jizz is inside her.

 

[Advancement]

i think its funny how far this post has spiraled from ex-obama lovers to health care, national debt , and now the constitution... it is the perfect example why we as a nation are not getting shit done and moving forward.. we're to busy worrying about our wallets, our beliefs, and our pride to work for the greater good of our fellow americans. everyone in this nation needs to take a step back ... a huge fucking step back, fire up the vaporizer .. and take a look at the bigger picture.

How did we get to this point in our country ? don't blame Obama or even Bush ( even though i think he was a corporate puppet ( what person in government isn't) and Iraq was a joke, Operation Iraqi Liberation O.I.L , and afghanistan would have been better left to the C.I.A), but as a nation we are at fault. we all gambled with our 401k or 403b and lost , because of the free market. Corporations run everything ( look at the blocks in the Norml commercials )when a dog runs away you need to put it on a chain. do I think they should have got bailouts.. yes and no ... to prevent market collapse yes ...but they didn't learn a lesson..

With health care , i think it should be universal , growing up as a kid i didn't have it , and when i went to the ER for bump or little cut it cost my parents 356.00 to hear " he will be fine" and we were working poor , but we paid. Health care is like car insurance in my state..i have to have uninsured drivers insurance to protect me from uninsured drivers, but if everyone had insure i wouldn't have to pay more money for dumb insurance.. in the end we pay for the uninsured in some form now. plus my wife works in hospital and she may take a pay cut , but we still support healthcare reform for the good of the people.

With Taxes and national debt, i just want to be happy and enjoy my life. Denmark The happiest people in the world pay some of the highest taxes in the world -- between 50 percent and 70 percent of their incomes. In exchange, the government covers all health care and education, and spends more on children and the elderly than any country in the world per capita, then i am willing to do that...i am not a socialist .. i am a humanist, that wants to live a healthy, happy, and fulfilling life.

With religion. i respect and understand you have your beliefs, but what ever happen to separation church and state... if i hear one person talk about there god ,abortion, ,and health care in or around the same sentence on a national media network, i think we should just sent them to meet their maker and so they can personally ask it's opinion. this is coming from a poor male Independent pro-choice Catholic Buddhist social worker ( i hate being the majority and minority )

i look at canada across the lake, and wonder when i should get my application. i am not saying canada is a 100% right , but its a start..

I worry about that these things not for myself...i worry for my 11 month old daughter. and future generations...isn't there a saying United We Stand, Divided we Fall.......i guess the real question is how deep is the rabbit hole.

sorry .. just had to rant.