now that its passed

upnorth2505

New Member
But you dont want it corrected, even if it means loss of life, or home, or family. You want America to fail. and will do anything and say anything to help make it fail. you guys are the traitors to your country! even if it were a righty in office I would still want America to succeed, i hated Bush, but it didnt make me want America to fail......even though it did under Bush.
Selfishness is an insidious thing. So is intransigence. Rush was famous for saying he wanted Obama to fail. No different in my book then saying he wants America to fail. The teabag minority would gleefully bring America to its knees just to make a distorted, lame, racist, ignorant point. Rush, Beck and their lot are sick, racist, traitors.

The want to steal America from the people and remake in their fat, white, middle-aged, racist, homophobic , disgusting, unpatriotic, treasonous image. Our country has done enormously well. This is due to forward thinking people. Not the people who would hold us back using fear and lies as their weapons of choice. At least for now. Some, I have no doubt, would be only too happy to use guns and violence to ram their backwards Un-American dogma down our throats.

The teabaggers are a group to watch. They could very well be the next terrorist threat to our county. If Timothy McVeigh were around today, the baggers would welcome him with open arms. :-( :-(
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
For all those against the gov getting involved in heathcare reform, what is your solution for people who buy insurance, pay their premiums, and then when they get sick ( i dont mean a simple cold or visit to a GP) the insurance companies do everything they can to not pay or delay payment. What do you suggest is the answer to a person like myself who works for a large fortune 100 company. Worked 50+ hrs per week for 15 years and then when I want to change jobs found out that I would not be able to get insurance again because I now have what they call pre-existing condition? I tried every insurance company out there and what I have is nothing as serious as cancer or heart disease.

I am not looking for a handout. I have worked since I was teenager. I am looking for someway to make sure that if I pay for something, I get what I paid for. I am looking for a way to have freedom to change jobs or start a business and have access to a affordable healthcare. I was healthy my whole life until my mid 30's and really never thought much about healthcare or how it worked. Now I see what a mess it is with for profit insurance companies and no one to hold them accountable.

So I ask, do you not thinks its good to have oversight over things like insurance, food inspection, financial institutions so the little people are not taken advantage. I dont have the money to go get lawyers and fight them and if I did they would be able to get better and more lawyers to make it damned if I do and damned if I don't.
...the little people? Munchkins? :mrgreen:

Okay just goofing on you a bit there.

Who should watch the government? If there was truly a free market, consumer needs would be met, prices would drop too. Competition is a big force in assuring low prices.

A heavily regulated market is not an example of "free market failure", it is an example of government failure....letting the same organization that made things bad try to "correct" a problem is throwing gasoline on a fire and expecting it to go out.

When government prohibits an act or regulates it, costs rise. When pot is legal do you still think it will cost $300 an ounce? Look at computers and VCRs, just 10 years ago they were very costly, the technology moved along relatively unhindered by government
and prices have dropped tremendously.

Government food inspections do not prevent disease either.

Government monopolizing the money supply has lead to a hidden tax via inflation. Before the Federal Reserve the market was self correcting.

Ultimately the consumer should have the greatest oversight over service providers.

Without all of the confusing laws, you wouldn't need a lawyer would you?
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Wars are very hard to justify. I think initiating aggression is wrong. I do not support killing innocent people or forcing others to fund it.

That's why I don't believe taking from one person against their will is justifiable, whether it be to fund wars, schools or "free" health care.

My belief is consistent and yours is inconsistent. You seem to fall into the trap of "but it's for your own good" being a sufficient justification. I don't.

You say the government "works for you" ?
I disagree, you work for the government.

How do you feel about "services" like jails that house people that grow pot? You fund that y'know. Some people think those laws exist "for your own good".

All we owe another is the right to make their own choices about their life, liberty and property regardless of what we think is best for them. Intervening in others lives with your "good idea" is still intervention.

A truly good idea does not need to be forced upon people, if it's a good idea people will decide for themselves. Using government to enforce arbitrary morality is a contradiction. If we leave others alone, we should be left alone if that's what we want...end of story.
Rob Roy I feel sorry for you guy....You really think that you have no need for government...Hope you never need the fire dept or the police after someone crack you in the head. and make sure you stay out of my library...no driving on the public roads or highways for you either....and you better not drink our public water...I assume you don't receive mail either...and you better not take you or your children to any public parks .... ok ok the kids can come..but you stay out.... I guess you won't need the FDA either so you free to eat out the garbage....You know you sound like this guy named Timothy Mcveigh. He hated government...

You say I work for the government ...I say it works for me or at least we work for each other... I gave the USAF 22 years of my life...It has given me a a career, house, numerous cars, the ability to open my own business once I retired, a college education ( paid for ), a chance to see the world, and some of the best friends a guy could ever have, free medical ( cost me 27 dollars to have a child )...oh the list goes on and on..and guess what I still get paid from the USAF...Is not life wonderful
 

medicineman

New Member
Rob Roy I feel sorry for you guy....You really think that you have no need for government...Hope you never need the fire dept or the police after someone crack you in the head. and make sure you stay out of my library...no driving on the public roads or highways for you either....and you better not drink our public water...I assume you don't receive mail either...and you better not take you or your children to any public parks.... I guess you won't need the FDA either so you free to eat out the garbage....You know you sound like this guy named Timothy Mcveigh. He hated government...

You say I work for the government ...I say it works for me or at least we work for each other... I gave the USAF 22 years of my life...It has given me a a career, house, numerous cars, the ability to open my own business once I retired, a college education ( paid for ), a chance to see the world, and some of the best friends a guy could ever have, free medical ( cost me 27 dollars to have a child )...oh the list goes on and on..and guess what I still get paid from the USAF...Is not life wonderful
I think this guy Rob Roy is way too mean to feel sorry for, JMHO.
 

SouthernGanja

Active Member
And, I know that we cant keep blaming Bush for everything. But damn it, I just enjoy doing it so much.
Can't blame ya, but I blame them all.

I know the people will pay for it. How? More taxes? National sales tax? Even better, legalize weed, regulate and tax it.

"I'd like a pack of Marlboro Kush please"
 

txhomegrown

Well-Known Member
I am afraid it will be some time before the feds back off of marijuana. The Federal Government has a long memory, and it still remembers the slap in the face it got from from the failed attempt at prohibiting alcohol in the 1920's. The people stood up and said hell no! We will have our booze and you revenuers can go fuck yourselves. The same thing is going on with weed. After the feds repealed prohibition of alcohol, they had to find a new demon. WEED! We have all heard it was because of blacks and mexicans blah..blah... When in fact, it was about power., Power and control over the population. The bad thing for us, is this time they cant afford to back down as easily. They would lose face. If they were to legalize weed, it would give a large segment of the population a feeling that they might have some say as to what is going to happen to them. The feds cant let that happen and expect to get away with the crap they are pulling on us right now. Another bad thing we as stoners have going against us is the nature of weed itself. It tends to make us sit around and talk about doing something, whereas a bunch of drunks that want there booze will form a mob in a heartbeat. I am not saying become the Al Capone of smoke, but we could all probably do a little more in the way of putting pressure on our legislators. Damn this got long. I am sorry.
 

jeff f

New Member
your right and i think thats why were in trouble...everyone cant work dmv or irs or be on welfare ......

bingo. pretty soon it ends up a bunch of people just giving money to each other with out added value.

our problem isnt the military spending. we have a ton of enemys.

our problem is the internal police state. seriously, get busted for dui and watch how many people are making money.

the police officer to bust you with all his pay and equiptment, the booking place with probably 4 people employed. you have a state paid counselor, a whole control center to pay for the fine, a center for renewing licenses. and the big one, THE FUKING COURTHOUSE, and on and on. if you dont work for the govt you are being hunted by the govt for taxes or fines.

does anybody see anything wrong with this?
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy I feel sorry for you guy....You really think that you have no need for government...Hope you never need the fire dept or the police after someone crack you in the head. and make sure you stay out of my library...no driving on the public roads or highways for you either....and you better not drink our public water...I assume you don't receive mail either...and you better not take you or your children to any public parks .... ok ok the kids can come..but you stay out.... I guess you won't need the FDA either so you free to eat out the garbage....You know you sound like this guy named Timothy Mcveigh. He hated government...

You say I work for the government ...I say it works for me or at least we work for each other... I gave the USAF 22 years of my life...It has given me a a career, house, numerous cars, the ability to open my own business once I retired, a college education ( paid for ), a chance to see the world, and some of the best friends a guy could ever have, free medical ( cost me 27 dollars to have a child )...oh the list goes on and on..and guess what I still get paid from the USAF...Is not life wonderful
No need to feel sorry for me. I think you misconstrue my intentions though or haven't bothered to read my posts.
The McVeigh reference was uncalled for also. I've always been an advocate for nonviolence.

I've simply pointed some things out that are hard for you to counter. Government does rely upon force. For example... Your post above...The Air FORCE was your career.

Name one of the "services" you list above that does not rely upon force to exist or for funding. I bet you can't.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
The word is society:
Society or human society is the set of relations among people, including their social status and roles. By extension, society denotes the people of a region or country, sometimes even the world, taken as a whole.[1] Used in the sense of an association, a society is a body of individuals outlined by the bounds of functional interdependence, possibly comprising characteristics such as national or cultural identity, social solidarity, language or hierarchical organization. Human societies are characterized by patterns of relationships between individuals sharing a distinctive culture and institutions. Like other communities or groups, a society allows its members to achieve needs or wishes they could not fulfill alone.
This is the key. A society allows members to achieve needs or wishes they could not achieve alone. I hate to be repetitive, but that says it all. we live in a society and we should attempt to help those that need help. The way to do this is by pooling our resources, (Money acquired by taxes) and distributing it to those in need. I realize that those that have the most, want to do the least. Seems Ironic that the same society that allowed them to be such great successes, is lamented as a burden to their wealth. Greed is a nasty trait of the wealthy class.
I believe you miscast me.
This may be inaccurate and of course we have no real way of verifying it but...I'm willing to bet I've done more volunteer work in the last year than you have your entire life. I say this not to taunt, it is just my opinion.

Once many years ago I was young, poor, hungry and jobless...guess what I did, I raked leaves for a meal. I did not expect or WANT somebody to give me something for nothing. When somebody brought me food, I thanked them and I got off my ass and raked their lawn, because it was
the only way I could repay them at that time.

This same person, an older fellow, liked my work ethic. He said I was a "throwback" to a time when a handshake meant something. He lent me gas money to use looking for a job too. I couldn't find a job right off, so I painted his house and shingled his roof. He then gave me an old truck to start a business with.

I paid him back every dime for the truck and weeded his garden and stacked his firewood. Later when he was too old and too proud to ask, I shoveled his driveway and made sure HE had enough to eat.

Nobody made either of us do what we did. I didn't ask for something for nothing. Those that do, I'm afraid miss the point. Frankly our "society has become a bit enamored of the idea of "something for nothing".

You state you realize those that have the most want to do the least? That hasn't always been my experience. I've found that many who have acquired have done a great deal both to acquire and to help others. My experience unfortunately with trying to help SOME people is that they have become so accustomed to a hand out that a hand up is seen as an affront.

I'll agree with you that SOME people have no interest in helping others despite their wealth. So should we rob them or "make" them give it away?

Greed is certainly a trait that can get out of hand, but so can envy.

There is no substitute for hard work, common sense and humility. Nobody "owes" anybody anything but mutual respect. Self respect is something the world could use more of too.

Regardless of what a person does or does not do for others, I'd say the thing that is universal is we should not make others choices for them or force them to do anything.

Also, somebody should buy you a new box of crayons for your posts...Oh alright I'll buy them for you. The rake is in the shed, the lawns out front...what are you waiting for? :lol:
 
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