Bill targets citizenship of terrorist allies

Please read the article before voting: Question" Do YOU"

  • Suppoort such a bill

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • Support with reservations

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • Do not support such a bill

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • Think bill will be used beyond its scope against Americans

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • Ahave serious doubts about our freedoms in America

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • Think congress should be tarred and feathered

    Votes: 4 30.8%

  • Total voters
    13

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
Bill Targets Citizenship of Terrorists’ Allies

By CHARLIE SAVAGE and CARL HULSE

Published: May 6, 2010


WASHINGTON — Proposed legislation that would allow the government to revoke American citizenship from people suspected of allying themselves with terrorists set off a legal and political debate Thursday that scrambled some of the usual partisan lines on civil-liberties issues.
The Terrorist Expatriation Act, co-sponsored by Senators Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, and Scott Brown, Republican of Massachusetts, would allow the State Department to revoke the citizenship of people who provide support to terrorist groups like Al Qaeda or who attack the United States or its allies.
Some Democrats expressed openness to the idea, while several Senate Republicans expressed concern. Mr. Brown, who endorsed aggressive tactics against terrorism suspects in his campaign for the late Senator Edward M. Kennedy’s seat, said the bill was not about politics.
“It reflects the changing nature of war and recent events,” Mr. Brown said Thursday. “War has moved into a new dimension. Individuals who pick up arms — this is what I believe — have effectively denounced their citizenship, and this legislation simply memorializes that effort. So somebody who wants to burn their passport, well, let’s help them along.”
Identical legislation is also being introduced in the House by two Pennsylvania congressmen, Jason Altmire, a Democrat, and Charlie Dent, a Republican. The lawmakers said at a news conference that revoking citizenship would block terrorism suspects from using American passports to re-enter the United States and make them eligible for prosecution before a military commission instead of a civilian court.
Citing with approval news reports that President Obama has signed a secret order authorizing the targeted killing of a radical Yemeni-American cleric, Anwar Al-Awlaki, Mr. Lieberman argued that if that policy was legal — and he said he believed it was — then stripping people of citizenship for joining terrorist organizations should also be acceptable.
Several major Democratic officials spoke positively about the proposal, including Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton. Noting that the State Department already had the authority to rescind the citizenship of people who declare allegiance to a foreign state, she said the administration would take “a hard look” at extending those powers to cover terrorism suspects.
“United States citizenship is a privilege,” she said. “It is not a right. People who are serving foreign powers — or in this case, foreign terrorists — are clearly in violation, in my personal opinion, of that oath which they swore when they became citizens.”
Speaker Nancy Pelosi said she supported the “spirit” of the measure, although she urged caution and said that the details of the proposal, like what would trigger a loss of citizenship, still needed to be fleshed out.
Several Republican officials, though, were skeptical of the idea. Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, the Republican leader, questioned the constitutionality of the proposal.
“If they are a U.S. citizen, until they are convicted of some crime, I don’t see how you would attempt to take their citizenship away,” Mr. Boehner said. “That would be pretty difficult under the U.S. Constitution.”
The proposal would amend an existing, although rarely used, program run by the State Department. It dates to a law enacted by Congress in 1940 that allowed the stripping of citizenship for activities like voting in another country’s elections or joining the army of a nation that is at war with the United States. People who lose their citizenship can contest the decision in court.
The Supreme Court later narrowed the program’s scope, declaring that the Constitution did not allow the government to take away people’s citizenship against their will. The proposal does not alter the requirement of evidence of voluntariness.
That means that if the proposal passed, the State Department would have to cite evidence that a person not only joined Al Qaeda, but also intended to relinquish his citizenship, and the advantages it conveys, to rescind it.
Several legal scholars disagreed about the legality and effectiveness of the proposal.
Kevin R. Johnson, the dean of the law school at the University of California, Davis, argued that it was “of dubious constitutionality” because merely joining or donating to a terrorist group fell short of unequivocal evidence that someone intended to relinquish his citizenship.
Peter H. Schuck, a Yale University law professor, said the Supreme Court might allow Congress to declare that joining Al Qaeda created a presumption that an American intended to relinquish his citizenship, so long as the program allowed the person to rebut that view.
Mr. Lieberman portrayed the proposal as a reaction to increasing involvement in Islamic terrorism by United States citizens, including Faisal Shahzad, the Pakistani-American man who was arrested in connection with the failed attempt to set off a car bomb in Times Square last Saturday. Mr. Shahzad was granted American citizenship last year.
However, Mr. Lieberman emphasized, the measure would apply only to people who commit such acts in the future. Senate aides said that it would apply only to acts undertaken overseas.
 

abe23

Active Member
Scott Brown needs to give some red meat to the people who voted for him (their mad because he didn't block debate on financial reform) and Libermann is an attention whore who gets a bit hysterical when it comes to a certain near-eastern fatih...

This piece of garbage is going nowhere. There are already provisions that allow you to strip someone of their US citizenship if they take up arms against the united states in a foreign army. That should be enough...
 

medicineman

New Member
Pretty much anything Lieberman tries to do is fucked up, and that is all I have to say about this bill, it is fucked.
 

Keenly2

Active Member
next it will be joining a militia will get your citizenship removed


talk about oxy moron
 

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
next it will be joining a militia will get your citizenship removed


talk about oxy moron
That is exactly what I thought when I read the article. Malitia groups have been targeted by the media and gov't under Clinton. We have heard a lot of rhetoric about militias lately as well.
 

medicineman

New Member
That is exactly what I thought when I read the article. Malitia groups have been targeted by the media and gov't under Clinton. We have heard a lot of rhetoric about militias lately as well.
Uhhh, are you a member of a militia? There are some real kooks associated with militias, the Klan, Arian Brotherhood, etc. I'd like to know someone is watching them. Question, What happens when ones citizenship is revoked, do they become an illegal alien?
 

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
Uhhh, are you a member of a militia? There are some real kooks associated with militias, the Klan, Arian Brotherhood, etc. I'd like to know someone is watching them. Question, What happens when ones citizenship is revoked, do they become an illegal alien?
UHH!! you seem to be somewhat enlightened?? Why do you buy into the hype about militias. There are many different militias in America and some are Racist. But there are Native American militias, Strike Home, were they Kooks?
Remember Wounded Knee? That militia was unjustly attacked and Leonard Peltier is still in jail.
There are ex military militias, Patriot militias and most militias are open to anyone who wants to join. What makes you think militias are so bad and need to be watched?
 

Jamielee

Member
I am 100% in favor for the states decision to find a resolution to the problem as it sees fit and not wait for the federal government to take control. It may be a controversial bill but it is necessary for Arizona to reclaim control of their state. I don't view this as a racial issue and to be quite honest anyone stamping their feet and playing the race card at this point in our countries history has to really step back and look at what is happening in the United States. We have elected a minority President of the United States, something no other country has ever done. I am not claiming bigotry and racism do not exist any longer in the U.S but I think it is clear we have come too far to be using this excuse everytime something happens that challenges the viewpoints of any particular race, sex or religion.
I loved Jan Brewer's response to President Obama's attempt to make light of the intense feuding that has erupted in her state.
(this is my first attempt to embed a video so bare with me if it doesn't work correctly)

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abe23

Active Member
You're in the wrong thread, buddy....but it's nice to see how easy it is to score political points by enacting an stupid, xenophobic and most likely unconstitutional laws.
 

medicineman

New Member
The problem with militias are they are so splintered, that the Government can quash them at ease. Most militias have their own agendas and are separated from each other, thereby limiting their effectiveness. If they could all get together, they might make a dent in the governments rule, but one must not forget about attack helicopters, cluster bombs, DU munitions, MOABs, etc. You better believe, this government would use all the dogs of war to quell insurection, then call all those they killed terrorists. The only way this government can be taken down is from within, a coup if you will. Before attempting any paramilitary action, one must have insiders in the military that would not allow the troops to attack the insurgents, (US). This will require a whole lot of time I'm afraid, and probably a whole, lot of money. If I could see a reasonable chance of success, I might be willing to participate. I do not find the prize of death or imprisonment to be appealing.
 

tinyTURTLE

Well-Known Member
this bill isn't going anywhere. even john boehner said it was unconstitutional. plus there is already a law in place which does this.
the leiberman law would not require a conviction or any proof, just state department say so.
joe leibernam has had a lot of failed ideas.
this is just one of many.
i feel sorry for scott brown for getting suckered into backing this.
also, joe leiberman's face looks like an over-used yak vagina.
 

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
The problem with militias are they are so splintered, that the Government can quash them at ease. Most militias have their own agendas and are separated from each other, thereby limiting their effectiveness. If they could all get together, they might make a dent in the governments rule, but one must not forget about attack helicopters, cluster bombs, DU munitions, MOABs, etc. You better believe, this government would use all the dogs of war to quell insurection, then call all those they killed terrorists. The only way this government can be taken down is from within, a coup if you will. Before attempting any paramilitary action, one must have insiders in the military that would not allow the troops to attack the insurgents, (US). This will require a whole lot of time I'm afraid, and probably a whole, lot of money. If I could see a reasonable chance of success, I might be willing to participate. I do not find the prize of death or imprisonment to be appealing.
I agree with much of what you say.
 
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