FEWER plants produce MORE than MORE PLANTS!

[pftek]

is this the consensus? I see people lollipopping and trying to fit more and more plants. but from the grow journals ive read it seems people with FEWER plants are producing more than someone with more plants...

 

[txhomegrown]

I have done it both ways and got about the same yield. I would get from 8 - 12 ounces from a home made 31 gallon rubbermade aero unit. I could do 2 plants or 10, but the yield was always within that 8 - 12 ounce range. Personally, I like big plants. It makes me feel good just looking at them.

 

[shadywolf]

dude good question. no its not the consensus its all to do with lumens. the reason people will try and fit more plants into an area is for a quicker turn around, or alot of people can have height issues so have to grow smaller plants. if u were to do say 20 plants in a meter square for sog you would veg for a quarter of the time you would if you were growing 4 plants in that meter square area but the yeild would be more or less the same because you would have the same amount of lumens hitting the plants.the more lumens you give the more bud you get. no ifs, no buts, no maybe's its just sog gives a turn around of about 11 weeks from cutting because your not looking for big plants you veg for two weeks then chuck them into flower. but your individual plants would be more like 14/15 weeks even up to 17 from cutting.hope this helps.

viva la bubbloution

 

[kysmoker]

Personally I think you can get just as good a yield (if not more) from a sog setup. Not only that, but you can do it more often because of shorter veg times.

 

[Hobbes]

.

I've got an 8'x3' garden and I dropped from 12 plants to 10 because I improved my root systems and the plants are growing bigger in flower, taking two plants out keeps the others from squeezing against each other and lets a bit of light down the sides, develops side buds lower on the plant.

I've harvested too few plants since the change to figure out if I have more harvest or not. 2/12 plants less work watering so if I break even on yield and potency I'm ahead a bit.

.

 

[txhomegrown]

Some of those ebb and flow systems are putting out a shitload of bud per square meter. They prune the plants to just one cola with no side branches and put hundreds of them under a 1000 watt light. They are getting about 1.5 grams per watt using CO2. Way too much work involved for me.

 

[ImTheFireMan]

i used to put 34 smaller plants under 1200watts of hps.

now i veg them a bit longer and only put 16.

for me, they seem to be more dense.

 

[dura72]

i use a 4' x 4' x 6 1/2 ' tent with a 600hps in soil(old school organic set up) strated with 6 plants, went to 5 and now at four, i dont do sog,scrog, lollypop or lst, just let 'em grow like nature planned and ive found that 4 plants grow better in that setup than 5 or 6, not much difference in the main cola but the sideshoots produce a fuckin shit load more dense popcorn bud, i''ll never go above 5 in that area and it also allows for more airflow round the plants reducing bug or mold problems

 

[riddleme]

Ultimately MJ wants to be free the plants want space and do not want to touch each other (doing so causes minor stress) rule of thumb is 1 and 1/2 feet between plants and it is not lumens that matter (in fact lumens mean absolutely nothing to the plants) it is the sum of all parts that make a great grow with good yields, You will always get higher yields from a garden that is dialed in properly with ZERO stress to the plants

 

[shadywolf]

Ultimately MJ wants to be free the plants want space and do not want to touch each other (doing so causes minor stress) rule of thumb is 1 and 1/2 feet between plants and it is not lumens that matter (in fact lumens mean absolutely nothing to the plants) it is the sum of all parts that make a great grow with good yields, You will always get higher yields from a garden that is dialed in properly with ZERO stress to the plants

dude i appreciate the disagreement but before commenting you should really do your research.yes to get the best yeild you have to look at a lot of factors but to say something so ignorant as lumens mean nothing to plant im in stitches lol. lumens matter to plants a hell of a lot when it comes to flowering the more lumens the bigger the buds. OK if lumen's are not the main factor in yield do yourself a grow of more than 3 plants under a 125w cfl see how that goes for you.
you are so far off the mark its funny.the whole idea of using light is to simulate the lumen output of the sun as close as you can otherwise what the fck are we all spending money on lights for lol

viva la bubbloution

 

[riddleme]

dude i appreciate the disagreement but before commenting you should really do your research.yes to get the best yeild you have to look at a lot of factors but to say something so ignorant as lumens mean nothing to plant im in stitches lol. lumens matter to plants a hell of a lot when it comes to flowering the more lumens the bigger the buds. OK if lumen's are not the main factor in yield do yourself a grow of more than 3 plants under a 125w cfl see how that goes for you.
you are so far off the mark its funny.the whole idea of using light is to simulate the lumen output of the sun as close as you can otherwise what the fck are we all spending money on lights for lol

viva la bubbloution

ROFLMAO,,,Dude you just made my day!!!!!

You should consider doing some research on who your talking to???

I am the guy that got 47.2 grams off a 21 inch tall plant with just 97 watts of light

I probably know more about how to properly use lights then 90% of the members here

And it is a fact that plants don't use lumens, you can take that to the bank

Thanks for the laugh

 

[growcheese]

And it is a fact that plants don't use lumens. WRONG

 

[growcheese]

Lots of light = Lots of bud
[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

 

[RikoSuave55]

Lumens More than anything besides maybe water is the most important thing to plants in general.

Im no Know it all better than 90 % or anything as distinguished as that but i do know last year i had two plants cut from the same mom, put out on the same day, fed the exact same and endured the same weather.

One plant was partially blocked by a tree for a couple hours out of the day the other wasnt. I got nearly an ounce more out of the one that was in the sun all day.

ANother thing was once i added a fourth light to my bubbleponics system [2500 lumens] i cut my veg time by a week cuz they were outgroing the tent in 8 weeks.

My experience has always been the more lumens, the happier the plants are. which is why outdoor plants grow so much taller usually.

If lumens dont matter, then im gonna buy that cheap 1000 lumen bulb and grow me 50 plants this year! woo hoo! NOT!

It was a dumb statement and i wish there was a subtract rep button for people like this.

 

[DK77]

plants dont need lumens cars dont need petrol fish dont need water

 

[riddleme]

Lumens More than anything besides maybe water is the most important thing to plants in general.

Im no Know it all better than 90 % or anything as distinguished as that but i do know last year i had two plants cut from the same mom, put out on the same day, fed the exact same and endured the same weather.

One plant was partially blocked by a tree for a couple hours out of the day the other wasnt. I got nearly an ounce more out of the one that was in the sun all day.

ANother thing was once i added a fourth light to my bubbleponics system [2500 lumens] i cut my veg time by a week cuz they were outgroing the tent in 8 weeks.

My experience has always been the more lumens, the happier the plants are. which is why outdoor plants grow so much taller usually.

If lumens dont matter, then im gonna buy that cheap 1000 lumen bulb and grow me 50 plants this year! woo hoo! NOT!

It was a dumb statement and i wish there was a subtract rep button for people like this.

My statement is true, whether anybody wants to believe it or not,,,

Lumens is a measurement (mostly used in photography) of how humans see light (not plants), it is based on the white light output which is mostly from the green spectrum (the part we see) the part of light that plants do not use at all

what you seem to think I said was that more light is not better, I did not say that

what I said was plants don't USE lumens which is a true statement, since lumens are based on green light and plants don't use green light

 

[Promitius]

there is an advantage in more in the aspect that you can use different strains, growing methods, watering techniques.

however if you know what you're doing and know how to get results. get 2 clones of something dank and put them under a strong light.

 

[riddleme]

I did not want to walk away from all the nay sayers and leave the OP confused, I also do not want to jack the thread but please understand that I Do a lot of research and don't follow what folks in MJ forums to believe to be true???

this is a quote from a botanist that post in a regular garden forum (tomatoes) it explains my point very well

There are 3 considerations in choosing lamps for plants, vs. lighting for the human eye: PAR, PPFD, and the duration of both. Let me explain. PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) are the violet, blue, and red wavelengths needed by the "higher" plants that most of us grow. These wavelengths appear dim our eyes even at high wattage or lumens, so "bright" lamps are an eye thing irrelevant to plants. The amount of the colours/wavelengths ROYGBIV in a lamps is revealed by its "spectral power distribution" graph (SPD). The company who makes the lamps will often fax the SPD graph to you if you cannot find it on the Internet. I've got piles of them. By keying in on your browser, "spectral power distribution of sylvania fluorescent lamps" you can see examples of what I'm talking about.

Then I compare these lamp graphs to the "absorption spectra" of plant pigments, namely chlorophyll a, chlorophyll b, and the carotenoids - particularly beta-carotene. Plant pigments will either reflect off the wavelengths that your lamps provide or will absorb them for photosynthesis. They reflect off most of the green, yellow-green, yellow, and yellow-orange wavelengths that just so happen to appear as bright to human eyes. Absorption spectra graphs reveal that violet, blue, and red (PAR) are what are needed for photosynthesis, and CRI of lamps don't indicate what colour wavelengths are in a specific tube. "Cool white" and "warm whiate" terminology is equally useless! Light intensity in watts or lumens do not refer to how much PAR is available to a plant, and is also irrelevant to how much PPFD (explained next) exists.

The measurement of how many usable photosynthetic wavelengths actually reaching the leaves (its density) is called PPFD, or photosynthetic photon flux density. This is about usable photons. And if the PPFD is not enough in your lamps when the PAR is relatively good, many plants can make up their need for a daily amount of carbohydrate production just by settin the light timer to remain on another 2-3 hours.

This can be a lot to digest, so I'm going to stop here. Again, feel free to let me know what you can't grasp.
Respectfully, John_Z.

I also have a really good ditty on PAR watts in my blog (Riddleme's Nuggets sig link)

 

[txhomegrown]

Please post a link to the place where you got your PAR/PPFD meter. I am sure there are a lot of us that would like to have one. Then, your cut and paste expertise would have some practical application.

At least you used a legitimate source. a botanist that post in a regular garden forum (tomatoes)

 

[Burger Boss]

First:
Measuring Light for Humans: Lumens and Lux
First, how do we measure light quantity for humans? The obvious way is based on how bright the source appears and how "well" the eye sees under the light. Since the human eye is particularly sensitive to yellow light, more weight is given to the yellow region of the spectrum and the contributions from blue and red light are largely discounted. This is the basis for rating the total amount of light emitted by a source in lumens.
The light emitted from the source is then distributed over the area to be illuminated. The illumination is measured in "lux", a measurement of how many lumens falls on each square meter of surface. An illumination of 1000 lux implies that 1000 lumens are falling on each square meter of surface. Similarly, "foot-candles" is the term for the measure of how many lumens are falling on each square foot of surface.
Clearly, both lumens and lux (or foot-candles) refer specifically to human vision and not to the way plants see light.

Second:
This silly assed thread was started by a shit disturbing dweeb that comes with some off-the-wall BS, that starts a big-assed ruckus. He's done this many times. Check his past threads
In one he claims he's going to become a cop and still wants to grow, then asks for advice In another, he says "his apt. fuses keep popping, Is that a problem?"(I guess the cop decided to grow,lol).
I'm telling you that this guy starts these threads to watch US dance.
Notice HE almost NEVER enters the converstion after the initial post.
I wish you all, Good luck & good grow.......BB


Here ya go tex, a little cut & paste: http://www.sunmastergrowlamps.com/SunmLightandPlants.html