47% of Tea Baggers dont pay federal taxes hypocrisy insues

[GreatwhiteNorth]

I'm really floored if this is the truth - can you provide amplifying info?
I can't see how the Govt can have optional penalties - I mean who the hell would pay anything then?
I think I see a way out of this right now if this is really how it works.

 

[dukeofbaja]

i think there is a religious "out" - not sure of the exact details

Hey, I said don't quote me!

I do wonder if there is a religious out though....it seems to me there would be somehow. I'll squirrel around for something...

 

[jeffchr]

I ask if it makes sense to you..... lol

so there is a MANDATE.... and if you don't follow the mandate....you get fined... if you don't pay the fine...nothing happens...

Your words..... now you think that sounds like the truth??!!! LOL...oh my.

hey, i didn't write the law. seems to me there was a lot less misinformation here at riu between 5/2 and 5/15

 

[GreatwhiteNorth]

Jeff - can you please reply to Kendo, I'd like to get to the bottom of this & really see what the truth is.
Thanks.
GWN

 

[jeffchr]

Here is what the provisions of the bill says.

Failure to pay the Mandated healthcare insurance subjects one to Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Internal revenue code for a variety of offense. Depending on the level of non-compliance, the following penalties could apply to the individual.

Section 7203 - misdemeanor wilful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.
Section 7201 - felony wilful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years

PLease post the evidence you have that refutes this.
​

perhaps that is the house bill before amendment. the actual bill does not contain those provisions. it actually contains the specific exemptions from enforcement.

 

[dukeofbaja]

I looked around and the only thing I could find about a religious objection was written long before the final version passed, and only seemed to exempt groups like the Amish. I would wager a religious opt out made it to the final version though, and to use it, you better have about 0 doctor visits in your lifetime.

 

[CrackerJax]

so the govt welfare health care is strictly voluntary... good to know.... I just don't believe it! I will be testing it however, because I have absolutely no intention of degrading my health care.

 

[dukeofbaja]

so the govt welfare health care is strictly voluntary... good to know.... I just don't believe it! I will be testing it however, because I have absolutely no intention of degrading my health care.

We are talking about the individual mandate here, not 'govt welfare health care'.

 

[jeffchr]

so the govt welfare health care is strictly voluntary... good to know.... I just don't believe it! I will be testing it however, because I have absolutely no intention of degrading my health care.

it is sad you believe that facilitating access to healthcare for more people will degrade your services. it may even be true; the future is indeed unpredictable. i, and many of us evil liberals, are willing to take the chance for the benefit of our culture and planet.

now, since i'm not a lazy, entitlement minded, uninsured, degenerate, sub-species i shall go fetch my copy of HR3590 and begin to quote from it, as if i was reading from the Good Book, wherein lies all manner of deceit and delusion.

the source pdf file has been certified by the Superintendent of Documents (as the Good Book)

One Hundred Eleventh Congress
of the
United States of America
AT THE SECOND SESSION
Begun and held at the City of Washington on Tuesday,
the fifth day of January, two thousand and ten
An Act
Entitled The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of
the United States of America in Congress assembled,
...
Subtitle F—Shared Responsibility for
Health Care
PART I—INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY
SEC. 1501. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.
...
‘‘CHAPTER 48—MAINTENANCE OF MINIMUM ESSENTIAL
COVERAGE
‘‘Sec. 5000A. Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage.
‘‘SEC. 5000A. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE
‘‘(g) ADMINISTRATION AND PROCEDURE.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The penalty provided by this section
shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and
except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and
collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under
subchapter B of chapter 68.
‘‘(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision
of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of
any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed
by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any
criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary
shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property
of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the
penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to
such failure.’’.

and thus he spoke, Amen.

 

[CrackerJax]

Criminal .... okay...that I believe...but if you think you can ignore the fine and nothing will happen to you...you're nuts. The IRS will take that money from you....every time.

I can easily surmise that health care will degrade since everywhere it is tried quality goes DOWN.....

 

[dukeofbaja]

Criminal .... okay...that I believe...but if you think you can ignore the fine and nothing will happen to you...you're nuts. The IRS will take that money from you....every time.

I can easily surmise that health care will degrade since everywhere it is tried quality goes DOWN.....

We agree on the first part. As for the second, only time will tell. Suffice it to say I am optimistic

 

[jeffchr]

i'll help you out here, but mainly for the benefit of GWN who has an interest in the facts. and these are the facts. i am a tax accountant. i know how the irs works and i know how to read code.

the irs in sec a is disallowed from pursuing criminal prosecution of anyone who fails to pay the penalty for lack of insurance, as you have acknowledged as being acceptable to your belief system.

in sec b the irs is prohibited from using the ONLY collection tools at their disposal in quasi-civil matters with a taxpayer - the levy (actually taking money out of your bank account) and the lien (securing a right to your property so that when you eventually sell it, the lien must be satisfied before title can be perfected). the irs involuntarily collects money in no other manner.

the IRS commissioner will take this bill and write the IRS regulations used to administer the law. with these restrictions, the commissioner's only interpretation of the bill's intent is clear. the irs is to be a collector of voluntary penalty payments, but not an enforcer.

now, have we put this to bed yet?

 

[GreatwhiteNorth]

So where's the stick?
If there is no penalty for not paying the fine for noncompliance who in their right mind would comply?
Somehow I don't believe that this is the end of this.
I hope so, but I doubt it.
Thanks Jeff.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

We are talking about the individual mandate here, not 'govt welfare health care'.

Yes, but government welfare health care helps to incite fear in the half witted masses, therefore is more valuable to the agenda, silly you

it is sad you believe that facilitating access to healthcare for more people will degrade your services. it may even be true; the future is indeed unpredictable. i, and many of us evil liberals, are willing to take the chance for the benefit of our culture and planet.

now, since i'm not a lazy, entitlement minded, uninsured, degenerate, sub-species i shall go fetch my copy of HR3590 and begin to quote from it, as if i was reading from the Good Book, wherein lies all manner of deceit and delusion.

the source pdf file has been certified by the Superintendent of Documents (as the Good Book)

One Hundred Eleventh Congress
of the
United States of America
AT THE SECOND SESSION
Begun and held at the City of Washington on Tuesday,
the fifth day of January, two thousand and ten
An Act
Entitled The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of
the United States of America in Congress assembled,
...
Subtitle F—Shared Responsibility for
Health Care
PART I—INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY
SEC. 1501. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.
...
‘‘CHAPTER 48—MAINTENANCE OF MINIMUM ESSENTIAL
COVERAGE
‘‘Sec. 5000A. Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage.
‘‘SEC. 5000A. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE
‘‘(g) ADMINISTRATION AND PROCEDURE.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The penalty provided by this section
shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and
except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and
collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under
subchapter B of chapter 68.
‘‘(2) SPECIAL RULES.—Notwithstanding any other provision
of law—
‘‘(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—In the case of
any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed
by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any
criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
‘‘(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.—The Secretary
shall not—
‘‘(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property
of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the
penalty imposed by this section, or
‘‘(ii) levy on any such property with respect to
such failure.’’.

and thus he spoke, Amen.

Check and mate

High correlation between CrackerJax posts and fallacies

Just sayin

 

[CrackerJax]

I stand by my post.. if you think those fines will not be collected...you are nuts. Then the bill would have NO teeth...and the system would crash.....since anyone who isn't duped will OPT OUT of the coming national medicaid (because that's what it will be).

If I know they cannot take the money from me... I will not join up (I won't anyways on principle)...but millions will do the same.... and the new welfare NEEDS everyone involved.... else they wouldn't have fines in the FIRST place. Why on earth would they levy fines they cannot/will not collect? Think it through. Don't be naive folks.... if you don't think the IRS can garnish your wages.... you are sadly mistaken.

Time will prove me correct.... hopefully this will all be repealed. The states are already bucking at the costs which will be placed upon them by the Feds.

Wake up and smell the coffee. They aren't hiring tens of thousands of new IRS agents to HELP you. At this point they will say ANYTHING to stave off criticism... until it is cemented in place...then Cracker will be verified...in spades...as usual.

 

[Mr.KushMan]

To my knowledge, I am from Canada bear in mind, that there is no law in existence in the US that commands a taxpayer to pay taxes.

First, according to the constitution, all direct taxes must be apportioned, an income tax is not. As well the need for all colonies or states to ratify the amendment was never met.

Peace

 

[CrackerJax]

No...that's a myth. It is in the IRS code itself, which is a law. I know it gets bandied about quite a bit, especially around April....but it's all there. That being said...if one does get into tax troubles...get a GOOD lawyer, and his sole purpose is to keep you out of tax court...where you will be creamed. The best stratagem is to delay delay delay, while you negotiate the numbers DOWN.

I now simply keep very little money in play inside the country.... most of my assets are overseas....and will not return until sanity returns to the country.

 

[kendothegreenwizard]

i'll help you out here, but mainly for the benefit of GWN who has an interest in the facts. and these are the facts. i am a tax accountant. i know how the irs works and i know how to read code.

the irs in sec a is disallowed from pursuing criminal prosecution of anyone who fails to pay the penalty for lack of insurance, as you have acknowledged as being acceptable to your belief system.

in sec b the irs is prohibited from using the ONLY collection tools at their disposal in quasi-civil matters with a taxpayer - the levy (actually taking money out of your bank account) and the lien (securing a right to your property so that when you eventually sell it, the lien must be satisfied before title can be perfected). the irs involuntarily collects money in no other manner.

the IRS commissioner will take this bill and write the IRS regulations used to administer the law. with these restrictions, the commissioner's only interpretation of the bill's intent is clear. the irs is to be a collector of voluntary penalty payments, but not an enforcer.

now, have we put this to bed yet?

Correct me if I am wrong. What I hear you saying is that unless I sign the paperwork, as in when I sign my tax statement the laws are unenforceable. I remember reading something to this effect in a tax resistor pamphlet about how you have to sign the tax document stating that you wil pay taxes before taxes can be levied. Very interesting indeed .

 

[CrackerJax]

Yah...go ahead and try it.... LoL....

Wanna bet Jeff pays his taxes?! Uh huh...nuff said there.

 

[Mr.KushMan]

In Canada, for most crown corporations, you can, what is called remit the bill, like for energy, water, or TV, by writing "remitted" on the back and returning it to them. This removes responsibility from the receiver and becomes the crowns duty to pay it or else collect it, but they have so many abiders almost anyone can do it now.

Peace