So the Obama Administration is okay with other countries encroaching our borders. . .

lopezri

Well-Known Member
I think you missed a word here, it is hard to tell what you were exactly asking. But I think I got the gist of it and yes, I would have no problem competing for my employment in an equal opportunity employment atmosphere. I work harder, it is a work ethic I learned from.....drumroll please......THE MEXICANS!

I have worked about 10 jobs in office type settings with a pretty representative workforce, and I have worked 3 manual labor type jobs (so far) side by side with purely Spanish speaking, and sometimes illegal, Mexican workers. Guess which jobs I had to bust ass just to keep up?

Hint: It wasn't the office jobs
The point isn't that they work harder here. The point is that they aren't paying into the system yet expecting to have all the rights that the system affords to the LEGAL citizens of the U.S. Even if they are paying into the system, without them being legal, we have no way of accounting for them.
 

lopezri

Well-Known Member
Anyway. . . I feel we've gotten off track here, we are talking about allowing other countries encroaching our borders, not about illegal immigrants, although, ILLEGAL immigrants are a MAIN REASON for the existence of the issue.

Would it be okay, then, for the French to occupy Canada, and then from there, come through our northern borders and colonize the U.S.? Is that acceptable? Why is it okay for one country to do it, but not another? Are we not a sovereign nation that stands as The UNITED States of America? Or is it okay for a state or two to be colonized and then seceed from the union? If this is okay, then isn't the Obama Administration basically saying that it is alright for other countries to rip apart the union into pieces based on race? How about based on religion? Maybe should each state operate as it's own country and just forget the union? If that is the case, do we have a need for a union President, or even a cabinet? When should we get rid of Congress? Maybe we should just all go back to living under the monarchy of the British? Why did we break away from them again?

If you can't answer these questions from a centrists point of view, then you've obviously been educated only by the U.S. educational system that was overtaken by extremists of the right and left after WWII and have never bothered to pick up a book or tried to make your own money without the aid of an "employer".
 

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member
Well, I definitely see them as people. ALL of my ancestors are from somewhere else. Aren't they all?
I hear you, and was not trying to accuse you of being colder than anybody else. I think the nature of much of today's political debate tends to dehumanize people.

So why are aliens entitled to everything that my ancestors came here for and worked so hard for? Why is it okay for them to be "johnnycomelatelys" and get everything that our whole heritage has been working so hard to obtain for over 200 years?
I have seen a fair number of 'illegals', and I can say that I have not seen a sense of entitlement in any of their faces. Essentially the folks I have seen found out they could make more money if they were willing to travel a distance. It's the same story as mine, except I was born in the US. I started living in one city, than thought there were more opportunities in another place and moved there. My neighbors don't call me a 'johnny come lately' or resent me for having taken a job from one of them.

Who took away your last job opportunity? Was it a Mexican alien, or was it some slick jerk from the other side of town?

If they couldn't do it for their country, what makes you think they can do it for the U.S.? I understand that this is the land of opportunity, but the opportunity is to have your freedoms to work hard, believe in your own God, and succeed on your own, not to come in and take everything away from everybody else that did the work to get there. AND EVERY country eventually has to say STOP, we have enough now. There is no more room at the inn! There is no more food or money either.
The world is your community, and mine. There is no hiding behind a imaginary line running between Mexico and the U.S. Mexicans are not taking jobs by force; they show up and people give them work because it makes economic sense for them to do it that way. It's the calculating game of the marketplace, playing by rules that the U.S. has written.

IF doctors WANT to provide healthcare under the Hippocratic Oath without using taxpayer monies, that's fine. It's their labor they are giving away. My labors aren't free. . . I work so I can aquire and attain things I want. Let them do the same.

So I definitely see them as people, just as I see legal U.S. citizens as people. Why is it okay for them to have everything that we've worked for but it isn't okay for us to have everything the rest of the world has worked for? The U.S. gives, and gives, and gives. . . but nobody ever seems to want to give anything else back.
In terms of health care, I agree that there are some prickly issues. One example I can think of is the use and abuse of emergency rooms by illegal immigrants. No doubt it contributes to the waste in our health care system. But again, I believe the costs of health care for illegal immigrants is only a small part of what is making health care expensive. There are much larger problems with health care, though. It's just the other problems are more complicated: end of life care, obesity, unwed teen pregnancy, etc.

I just think we are being played. Illegal immigrants stir us up emotionally, inspire fear-- which makes us less rational and more willing to accept authority.

Sadly, it is very late where I am, so I am off to bed, but will come back to this thread in the morning. Good night all.
 

abe23

Active Member
What exactly are you talking about? What encroachment...? Undocumented migrants have been a problem for decades not just since 2009.

I live pretty close to the canadian border and since 9/11 controls and policing of the border has gotten much tougher. There used to be towns where you could cross without going through a checkpoint, but no more. The southern border is also more heavily patrolled now than basically any time in us history. Where exactly is this encroachment happening and what does obama have to do with it?
 

dukeofbaja

New Member
The point isn't that they work harder here. The point is that they aren't paying into the system yet expecting to have all the rights that the system affords to the LEGAL citizens of the U.S. Even if they are paying into the system, without them being legal, we have no way of accounting for them.
First, what few Mexicans I have known to be illegal immigrants (not that Mexicans are the ONLY illegal immigrants, just that the only illegal immigrants I have known were Mexicans) were all paying into the system into false social security numbers.


Secondly, based on the hard work ethic, faith in God, and ganas to succeed, every Mexican I have known, illegal or not, is the last person I would expect to see standing in a welfare line or expecting free health care. I'm sure there are some that do, but let's weigh the cost they impose to society versus the economic benefit they provide. They live here. They spend their money here. They would not stand in droves on Arizona Avenue in Chandler, Arizona at 4am (and all picked up by 8am) if there were not those willing to employ them, much less dependent upon employing them.

We killed hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of farming jobs in Mexico....and wonder why they come here to work instead.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
uhhhh i'm pretty sure a dehydrated, half naked guy that doesn't speak english and just wandered out of the desert is not qualified enough to have my job.......so idc. lol
Mexicans are Some of the hardest working, most industrious and skilled people you will ever meet. They could certainly work me and everyone I know under the table.
 

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member
You fail to understand that they are ILLEGAL - THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAWS THAT U.S. CITIZENS ARE EXPECTED TO FOLLOW to avoid imprisonment. Why should they not have the same standards for them?
It seems strange that you hang your argument on the importance of not breaking the law. Dude, what web site are you on?
 

Balzac89

Undercover Mod
That would be he best defense for getting an education. Labor jobs are for young people and illegals.
 

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
What exactly are you talking about? What encroachment...? Undocumented migrants have been a problem for decades not just since 2009.

I live pretty close to the canadian border and since 9/11 controls and policing of the border has gotten much tougher. There used to be towns where you could cross without going through a checkpoint, but no more. The southern border is also more heavily patrolled now than basically any time in us history. Where exactly is this encroachment happening and what does obama have to do with it?
WHAT encroachment?
The northern border is much tighter than the southern border..Go Figure?!?
The fact that you do not live that close to the southern border is probably one of the reasons you are not worried about the porous southern border. Those who live along the southern border are living the daily effects of encroachment. Because you are not witness to the effects on thier lives does not mean it does not exist.
Yes the encroachment has been going on for decades and it is high time something is done about it. Obama is not to blame for the decades past but is in a position to do something about it now. Instead he wants to do something about AZ law that does do something about it. He wants to Kowtow to the latino vote at the expense of the rest of this nation.
Would you be fof tightening the southern borders as tight as you percieve the northern borders as being?
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Please....anyone...anyone at all...please name a SINGLE other country which allows foreign nationals to walk around without papers of identification.

So the rest of the world is racist I suppose.... :roll:

Three cheers for Arizona.... a state not completely retarded.
 

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member
Does that imply that since you smoke pot you think all laws are to be broken? Can we come and steal all your valuables then? do you think that is OK?
Um, no. I just think stating that something is bad because it is breaking the law is a weak argument-- particularly on this site.
 

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
Please....anyone...anyone at all...please name a SINGLE other country which allows foreign nationals to walk around without papers of identification.

So the rest of the world is racist I suppose.... :roll:

Three cheers for Arizona.... a state not completely retarded.
Don't hold your breath bro. There are none. Even Mexico and Canada require Passport or ID birth certificate, etc at all times for foriegn nationals . In Mexico you need a tourist card which must be presented upon demand to an officer. Failure to possess or present is grounds for fine and deportation.
 

dukeofbaja

New Member
Three cheers for Arizona.... a state not completely retarded.
Having lived there for 10 years, I can make a good case the state is completely retarted.

Per SE DUID laws, strict cannabis laws (despite the fact that voters approved MMJ), shitty public education, unsustainable (currently).

And that is without even getting into the issue at hand!

The only thing I like about Arizona is how well-planned Phoenix and its roads are
 

CrackerJax

New Member
I was referring to immigration... please.

Obviously... NO other country acts like Cali would have us do.... Arizona is 100% CORRECT!
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
I am all for Militarization of our borders to stop the rampant drug smuggling, illegal immigration, kidnapping in southern states and crime that is perpetrated on American citizens.
You have not lived long enough to know what miltarized borders are, or you are choosing to be willfully ignorant. Berlin, Gaza, Kosovo, letting borders become militarized symbolizes the worst of humanity.

Just so you know, militarized borders don't just keep people out, if you want to literally live in a jail, commit a crime, I for one still consider myself free. I don't need the army deciding if and when I can leave my own country.

Those who give up liberty for safety deserve neither- somebody who knew what it's like to face oppression.
 

dukeofbaja

New Member
Illegals need to be deported... end of story....

The way EVERY OTHER country does it.

Wake up...lawdy.
Are you already starting up with the insults again?

Go ahead and deport every illegal in Arizona, and see what happens to the AZ economy. If they want to bring their own economic downfall, that is their best move.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
how about simply using some common sense.....

how about realizing that the entire world doesn't do what we do.....

how about facing reality....

how about...... waking up.

Your position now is....the entire world is wrong....and liberals are right.... LAWDY ... now there is an insult.... an insult to intelligence.
 
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