Fan Leaves getting black spots then dying Please help. I have read everything I can.

SmokeyMcPotJK

SmokeyMcPotJK

Active Member
Guys,
I have read everything I can find on nutrient problems, ph problems and bugs. I cant figure this out.
At first it started with the oldest biggest fan leaves. They started getting black spots and yellowing. I was not to worried about it. Recently I removed a bunch of fan leaves to open the plant up. I am growing under CFL and of course that means no light penetration. So I removed any leaves that looked bad or when there were just to many in one spot.
Now more leaves are getting black spots and yellowing and twisting up and I am worried. What the hell is this. Whats going on. Please help.

Also you should know I just recently (a few days ago) discovered what I think are fungus gnats and I treated for them using a 70% neem oil plus fungicide. I did not spray the leaves though only the soil. Also the spray is approved for eatable plants and says it can be used up to the day of harvest and is safe for foliage. I havent found any indication that they would be aphid and not gnats.

Medium: Soil Miracle grow organic (I know its not great Im using FF OF now)
Nutes: FF tiger bloom
Cabinet grow
CFL


Pics
 

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chainseeker

Well-Known Member
I'd say high ph have you checked?

The other two things I am thinking are over fert and or high heat.

I'd start with ph though. My brother just killed his by using tap water with ph that topped the scale.

The highest on the test strip was 8.6 and it was over that.
 
Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
P - PHOSPHORUS (P)

Slow or stunted growth, red stems. Smaller leaves that are dark green. Lower leaves turn purple/dark, then yellow and die. Add chemical fertilizer containing P. Affected leaves will not show recovery but new growth will appear normal.

That might be the problem BUT is it a singular deficiency or do you have nute lockout and that is just the first symptom seen?
 
SmokeyMcPotJK

SmokeyMcPotJK

Active Member
I gotta get a better PH meter. My 3 way meter really shouldnt be used for PH. It is a PH/Moisture/light meter really cheap one.

Also yes the leaves are twisting..thats new havent seen that before. The problem was first present on the oldest fan leaves and is moving to the newer ones.

My NL is having weird problems too..will post picks now. I thought I got fertilizer on some of the lower leaves based on what they look like. The spots have been there a long time and only on 1 or 2 leaves. The biggest oldest ones again. Just now I am starting to see little brown spots on other leaves near the tips but not necessarily right on the tip.
 

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SmokeyMcPotJK

SmokeyMcPotJK

Active Member
Ill go tomorrow to buy something to test PH. I had the soil kit but I ran out of tabs. Honestly though I haven't checked the PH in a long time. I feel really stupid. We have good tap water here. I let it sit out so the chlorine or whatever evaporates. On the NL I use FF ocean forest and FF grow big..so I guess I assumed or hoped the PH would stay normal or close enough to not cause a problem. I also have looked at all the sick plant guides I can find and they all show PH problem plants and mine didnt look like that. Also if it were a PH prob I would have to guess calcium lockout would be involved because of the spotting. If that was true then it would have to be acidic PH I think because I believe cal absorbs up to like 9...i will have to look.
Also the soil test kits I have had...2 of them..the PH was hard to read. The color chart was weird on both..
 
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Dirty Harry

Well-Known Member
Wetdog said:
twisted leaves --> look at your pH first.

Wet
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I agree. I had a PH pen that went bad and was reading high. What I thought was 5.5 was actually 4.0 or less with a different tester. The bad tester would not calibrate and my leaves twisted and looked exactly like those pictured. After correcting the PH, the plants recovered.
 
SmokeyMcPotJK

SmokeyMcPotJK

Active Member
Wetdog said:
twisted leaves --> look at your pH first.

Wet
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Dirty Harry said:
I agree. I had a PH pen that went bad and was reading high. What I thought was 5.5 was actually 4.0 or less with a different tester. The bad tester would not calibrate and my leaves twisted and looked exactly like those pictured. After correcting the PH, the plants recovered.
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Ok I got the PH drop tester from my Hydro Store.
Tap Water - 7
Flowering Plant - Soil 6-6.25 runoff just watered yesterday so I didnt test it
NL veging - Soil 6.25 runoff 7ish...The water runs through the FF ocean forest so fast it prob didnt get a chance to lower much
 
SmokeyMcPotJK

SmokeyMcPotJK

Active Member
Thank you everyone for your posts. Im going to rep everyone now for responding.
KEEP IT UP...Problem not fixed yet!!!!!!!
Could it be a fungus problem? These plants are in my basement.
 
CabinetBuds

CabinetBuds

Active Member
Sheesh man I would stay start with ph. I have heard bad things about miracle grow products as well. They can be used but not that great of results. Other wise I honestly could not tell ya man.... Keep looking on the plant problem forums for pics like yours.

Good luck
 
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chainseeker

Well-Known Member
Start thinking cal mag. I think I am starting to have this problem also check it out. I woke up this morning and this is what I found. Do they look similar to your problem. We need to work this out asap!!!



 
SmokeyMcPotJK

SmokeyMcPotJK

Active Member
Yeah its moving through the fan leaves from oldest to youngest it seems....I think its micro nutrient lockout...specifically Magnesium Cal and Molybdemun...those all get locked out under 6.5

P is only locked out under 5..my ph definately isnt that low...however I do agree that the symptoms do look similar
 
Dezracer

Dezracer

Well-Known Member
Yeah I think it looks like P deficiency too but what you say makes sense about the Ph not being low enough for lockout. Maybe your nutes just aren't providing enough P for the plant though, in which case go with chainseeker's suggestion of Cal Mag to try and supplememt. If the problem gets worse right awayafter adding a small amount of Cal Mag you know that's not it and could flush if needed. From my personal experience, flushing doesn't always help when using FF Ocean Forest though. It has slow release nutes built into it, kinda like MG, and sometimes when you try to flush you just release more of the same nutes. I only flushed when my problem was really bad and when the plants had been in the soil for a long time already figuring they had most likely used up the majority of what came in the soil for this reason.
Fortunately for me, I haven't experienced that many problems yet with my plants. The downside is I am not an expert at diagnosing plant problems yet and probably never will be.

I wish I could be more help dude, and if you haven't checked out the link that TF posted two posts before this one, check it out. It couldn't hurt.
 
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chainseeker

Well-Known Member
Hey smokey I think you are correct and we are having the same prob at the same time crazy.

I went to lowes and got some lime to bring the soil ph up and add calcium then I fed the hell out of them with jack's nutes and lime plus put lime on top of the soil I'll let you know in the morning if anything happens
 
merkstillgrows

merkstillgrows

Active Member
hows everything so far did you get any of the stuff they recommended? dude i wouldn't know whats up with your plants Ive never had this problem before sorry hopefully everything goes well. i had this problem with my outdoor grow but couldn't do any thing for it. let me know if you find out what the cause was ok bud good luck .
 
Murfy

Murfy

Well-Known Member
you can't test your water with a "stake" style meter, and soil is hard to ph with out doing a hydrogen? extraction, but as a rule mediums with alot of peat are acidic and will benefit from a bit of lime added to the mix

also if your water is alkaline, it may have bicarbonates in it which will build up in your soil and produce lockout the other way, i would lean towards acidic though due to the leaf twist

try doing a flush and wait a couple days, to see if there is any change
 
SmokeyMcPotJK

SmokeyMcPotJK

Active Member
TalonToker said:
I don't know, man. It does look like a bit of P def, regarless of what is causing it (ph, too much of another nute, etc.) You might try to folliar feed a light (25% strength) dose of flower fert to the leaves. You've got to somehow get that ph in the 6.6 to 6.9 range.
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Im working on the PH problem using water with just a pinch of baking soda. PH of this solution is 7.75ish. I gave it just a little 16oz maybe of this and I will give it a little each day. I just checked the ph of the again and it is around the same maybe a little higher like 6.25 or a little more instead of 6-6.25. I foliar fed the NL grow big at the recommended amount. I only did it to a portion of the plant to see how it reacts. I will go do the flowering plant but Im going to do it even a little less of the dosage then recommended.
 
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