Here is a video that shows the Isaelis attacked the passengers before they boarded

[kendothegreenwizard]

Israel has been attacked over and over again. Most of the Arab states would like to see Israel gone. Israel knows this and has adopted a very agressive posture in responding to these attacks. Unfortunately, this agressive posture has resulted in some unfortunate civilian casualties. The difference is that the Palestinian "freedom fighter" does not differentiate between civilian and military. They are one and the same, both targets equally worthy of anhilation. This is the definition of terrorism. It doesn't matter that your enemy has one of the most capable military machines on the planet. The Palestinians are masters at portraying themselves as the victim. Victims don't launch rockets and suicide bombing attacks aimed at civilian targets of opportunity. They can't have it both ways and until the Israelis have a committed partner for peace the settlements will probably continue. The Palestinians have shown that they are not committed by electing a known terror organization like Hamas as the leaders of their "government".

The poor Israelis are attacked over and over again and the Civilian deaths of the arabs are unfortunate?
The Arabs don't differentiate betwen Civilians and Soldiers and yet the Civilian casualties that occur in the palestinian territories are amere unfortuanate incident and tragic and justified. Doublespeak at its finest.
Israel is a rogue nation that has ben instigating and perpetrating these hostilities for decades. They attacked the USS liberty for crists sakes and shot Americans in the water. These are the poor peaceful Israeli's you expect others to look upon with pity.

 

[doc111]

The poor Israelis are attacked over and over again and the Civilian deaths of the arabs are unfortunate?
The Arabs don't differentiate betwen Civilians and Soldiers and yet the Civilian casualties that occur in the palestinian territories are amere unfortuanate incident and tragic and justified. Doublespeak at its finest.
Israel is a rogue nation that has ben instigating and perpetrating these hostilities for decades. They attacked the USS liberty for crists sakes and shot Americans in the water. These are the poor peaceful Israeli's you expect others to look upon with pity.

Please show me where I said civilian casualties are justified, straw man. I said they are unfortunate. That's different from "justified".

 

[kendothegreenwizard]

Please show me where I said civilian casualties are justified, straw man. I said they are unfortunate. That's different from "justified".

Calling people names is against TOU.

 

[fdd2blk]

how come when we go to iraq to "help" them we are bad guys, but when we look the other way and not "help" the next guy we are also bad guys?

who do we help out and bomb next?


stop with the name calling.

 

[doc111]

Calling people names is against TOU.

I was referring to your straw man argument, trying to say I said that killing Palestinian civilians is justified when I never even implied it. For such a smart guy you sure seem to miss subtle refereneces.

 

[abe23]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Abe23, if I may, I find your comments generally fairminded but in #136 you link to an account of the 'Passover Massacre' as an example of Hamas atrocity. This sort of cherrypicking is a little disingenuous don't you think? In the two weeks prior to the 'massacre' the IDF had invaded both the West Bank and Gaza and over 200 mainly civilian Palestinians had been slaughtered. The Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was under siege in his own compound, ambulances had been attacked, hospitals cut off by tanks and hundreds of homes destroyed. If Hamas is not permitted the arms to defend its own families in their own territory it seems only human to expect them to resort to other means to return Israeli kindnesses.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Once again: if Israel wants peace, why is it building settlements?
[/FONT]

Really good post and the grinch also hit the nail right on the head.

First off, of course it's important to understand the context of the hamas passover bombing...just as it is important to understand the context of the mavi mamara shooting rather than just saying "israel are pirates" or some other ignorant shit. Interestingly, you completely leave out the other half of the context which was that hamas was trying to undermine peace talks between israel and the pa that were being brokered by saudi arabia.

As for the settlements, I've said it many times before that they are as big an obstacle to peace as hamas. But the reality is that israel is a complicated parliamentary democracy and the far-right settler movement is able to basically blackmail the government by threatening to leave their coalition. There's also a vicious cycle where violence from the palestinians causes a rightward shift in israeli politics, which ultimately means more settlements activity making peace all the more difficult.

 

[fdd2blk]

Please show me where I said civilian casualties are justified, straw man. I said they are unfortunate. That's different from "justified".

I was referring to your straw man argument, trying to say I said that killing Palestinian civilians is justified when I never even implied it. For such a smart guy you sure seem to miss subtle refereneces.

you directly called him a straw man.

if you don't have the balls to back up your insults, maybe you shouldn't throw them out in the first place.

your reference was NOT subtle, it was a DIRECT insult. as was the post after it.

 

[doc111]

you directly called him a straw man.

if you don't have the balls to back up your insults, maybe you shouldn't throw them out in the first place.

your reference was NOT subtle, it was a DIRECT insult. as was the post after it.

Whatever man. I wasn't insulting him. It was a reference to him trying to weaken my argument by saying I said civilian arab casualties were justified. I did not say that and I called him on it, plain and simple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

[fdd2blk]

Whatever man. I wasn't insulting him. It was a reference to him trying to weaken my argument by saying I said civilian arab casualties were justified. I did not say that and I called him on it, plain and simple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

you did say it, it's right there. i quoted it.

 

[UncleBuck]

to me, it looks like doc was calling the argument a straw man, which it was. also seems pretty tame as far as 'insults' go with all the offensive shit some people are saying in the mexico threads (rats, wetbacks, etc...)

can you imagine an argument like that:

arguer 1: you're a dick
arguer 2: fuck you, you're made out of straw, straw man.
arguer 1: *sobs*

 

[doc111]

to me, it looks like doc was calling the argument a straw man, which it was. also seems pretty tame as far as 'insults' go with all the offensive shit some people are saying in the mexico threads (rats, wetbacks, etc...)

can you imagine an argument like that:

arguer 1: you're a dick
arguer 2: fuck you, you're made out of straw, straw man.
arguer 1: *sobs*

Somebody gets it! Thank you!

 

[doc111]

you did say it, it's right there. i quoted it.

I said "strawman" not arab civilians being killed is justified. I think you misunderstood what I was talking about. I try not to offend people but my bad attempt at calling the argument a strawman argument obviously was missed by you and kendo. I'm sorry if I offended you kendo, that was not my intent. You're right I shouldn't have called him a strawman but I wasn't aware that nobody would get what I was trying to say (save for Uncle Buck). Again, I apologize for offending anyone.

 

[TheTruthSeeeker]

who cares the whole middle east is fucked and never will have peace as long as religion is around. All religion is the reason we have vilence and murder in the word so until religion can be killed and forgotten peace on earth will never happen...Look at almost every war it has some tie to a religious belief background or god..

 

[fdd2blk]

to me, it looks like doc was calling the argument a straw man, which it was. also seems pretty tame as far as 'insults' go with all the offensive shit some people are saying in the mexico threads (rats, wetbacks, etc...)

can you imagine an argument like that:

arguer 1: you're a dick
arguer 2: fuck you, you're made out of straw, straw man.
arguer 1: *sobs*

so you a mod now?

 

[fdd2blk]

I said "strawman" not arab civilians being killed is justified. I think you misunderstood what I was talking about. I try not to offend people but my bad attempt at calling the argument a strawman argument obviously was missed by you and kendo. I'm sorry if I offended you kendo, that was not my intent. You're right I shouldn't have called him a strawman but I wasn't aware that nobody would get what I was trying to say (save for Uncle Buck). Again, I apologize for offending anyone.

so you did call him a straw man?

"name calling" is NOT allowed. period.

 

[UncleBuck]

so you a mod now?

do i have to be a mod to share my thoughts here?

 

[fdd2blk]

do i have to be a mod to share my thoughts here?

no, i was just asking. you seemed to be making judgment calls as you question my simple request. i guess that makes me stupid.

 

[UncleBuck]

no, i was just asking. you seemed to be making judgment calls as you question my simple request. i guess that makes me stupid.

i was just inserting my opinion that straw man is a pretty lame insult, but i see your point. i just saw it as a logical fallacy fail rather than an insult fail, doc seems smarter than that...

and i have seen your outdoor grow. you are FAR from stupid in my book

 

[doc111]

so you did call him a straw man?

"name calling" is NOT allowed. period.

No problem. It wasn't meant to be an insult and I apologized to you and kendo. I'm not sure what else I can do. I must not have gotten the memo on the term "strawman" becoming an insult but rules is rules. I never said I didn't call him strawman. I denied saying killing arab civilians is justified. He was trying to put words in my mouth and I called him on it. Perhaps I went about it the wrong way and obviously my attempt at a humorous way of saying he was making a straw man argument was completely missed by you and him. Again, I'm sorry and I'd really just like to move on and put this behind us. I won't call anybody straw man again, regardless of intent.

 

[fdd2blk]

see what happens when you resort to name calling?


now where were we?