I almost got myself a CETME sporter like you have.
Stoner's views on Firearm rights.
- Thread starter CSI Stickyicky
- Start date
poopoo1964
Active Member
Guns don't kill... people kill people.. You can have my guns, when you pry them from my cold dead hands..
poopoo1964
Active Member
I'd rather be tried by 12 than be carried by six any day..
CSI Stickyicky
Well-Known Member
A well fashioned bong being necessary for the security of a free mind, the right to keep and bear cannabis shall not be infringed.
Fisherman Pete
New Member
i love guns but violence begets violence so i'd rather not end up in a situation like america where guns are kept not because they like them and want them, but because they need them.
it is a vicious cycle, it is in the criminals best interest to be better armed than their victim, if guns are readily available then oh deary me you really do need guns under your pillows. i am happy to forego my right to bear a gun in exchange for criminals not having them (of course they will have them, just not in any kind of quantity to make you fear your safety)
it is a vicious cycle, it is in the criminals best interest to be better armed than their victim, if guns are readily available then oh deary me you really do need guns under your pillows. i am happy to forego my right to bear a gun in exchange for criminals not having them (of course they will have them, just not in any kind of quantity to make you fear your safety)
Imagine if passengers aboard planes could carry guns. 911 would not have happened.
Fisherman Pete
New Member
and imagine if just one person was not quite clever enough to load up with low velocity hollowpoints prior to flying and lets lose, depressurises the plane and ploughs into the middle of a shopping center instead. "if if's and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas"
you could also look at it the other way. 3000 deaths on 9/11 or 8000 handgun homicides in 2001. 9/11 hasn't happened again, yet the death toll from guns just keeps clocking up. i'm sorry but it is completely silly trying to justify guns in society other than because of the argument that "it's my constitutional right" etc.
i love americans inability to grasp the concept of a viscous circle, it's priceless
as i say, i love guns, they are sexy and just YEAHHHHHH, but i am sensible enough to realise that it will screw up your society. just look at the figures
america has a gun fatality rate 8 times higher than the UK
CSI Stickyicky
Well-Known Member
Hey fisherman Pete, thanks for your input. Just curious, which country do you live in?
Fisherman Pete
New Member
as you can probably guess by my view, i'm from the UK haha, but i've been to the states lots, i've played around with all types of guns here there and everywhere (including some rather illegal ones i found out the other day)
as i say, i love guns, but only in a sensibel capacity. pistols are not warranted, theya re designed to be hidden and for shooting people, not wild animals etc, people, and to be hidden. not what society needs. if the pistol is not available, well the bad guy is most likely not going to pick up a shotgun instead, it's not that subtle, he'll go for a knife. bad guys want small deadly inconspicuous weapons. so why does average joe have pistols in his house? he has no need to hide them, he has a legal weapon to protect his family in the form of a shotgun or rifle, i see no reason why a guy sitting in his house feels that he needs a pistol. (personally i don't feel the need for either regardless of what the guy the other side of the door is packing. i like to fight my fights
as i say, i love guns, but only in a sensibel capacity. pistols are not warranted, theya re designed to be hidden and for shooting people, not wild animals etc, people, and to be hidden. not what society needs. if the pistol is not available, well the bad guy is most likely not going to pick up a shotgun instead, it's not that subtle, he'll go for a knife. bad guys want small deadly inconspicuous weapons. so why does average joe have pistols in his house? he has no need to hide them, he has a legal weapon to protect his family in the form of a shotgun or rifle, i see no reason why a guy sitting in his house feels that he needs a pistol. (personally i don't feel the need for either regardless of what the guy the other side of the door is packing. i like to fight my fights
KitchenKhemist
Active Member
How many people did cars kill in 2001? Should we outlaw them too? I love the UK's inability to grasp the concept of dental care. It too, is priceless.
Is that gun fatality rate figure per capita? I'm guessing that's a net figure, failing to take into account the difference in population size.
But it's ok. I can see why you'd hate for Americans to have guns...good way to lose alot of land huh?
KitchenKhemist
Active Member
How many guns must a criminal have to make you fear for your safety? 1...unless I have one too. Outlawing handguns only turns them into weapons instead of defense tools. Criminals will still get them. Honest men won't.
Frankly, I love target shooting with my .357 mag. It isn't a weapon until you use it against someone.
Fisherman Pete
New Member
that figure is proportionate. per X amount of people you have 8 times the fatality rate as us.
i don't care either way if you have guns, kill yourselves all you like, but i would not like to see the UK follow the same route. the introdution of tasers was bad enough. people don't seem to be able to fight their own fight any more.
are you trying to tell me that cars were designed specifically for killing people?
and as i've been told 1000 times, if the criminal wants one, he'll get one, oerfectly true to a certain extent but...
in the UK whether he wants one or not, it will be a bit of work to obtain and at good cost. they also know that on the whole they have no need for a gun because there is no gun pointing back at them. the fact we don't have guns IS our defense against them. the fact we don't have them causes the criminal to do without as well, there's simply no need for them to pack.
it has little to do with how many they have, but the likelihood that a criminal will have one. in america, if someone kicked your door in i bet it's safe to assume you would believe they had a gun. if someone kicked my door in them having a gun would be the last thing on my mind.
i don't care either way if you have guns, kill yourselves all you like, but i would not like to see the UK follow the same route. the introdution of tasers was bad enough. people don't seem to be able to fight their own fight any more.
are you trying to tell me that cars were designed specifically for killing people?
and as i've been told 1000 times, if the criminal wants one, he'll get one, oerfectly true to a certain extent but...
in the UK whether he wants one or not, it will be a bit of work to obtain and at good cost. they also know that on the whole they have no need for a gun because there is no gun pointing back at them. the fact we don't have guns IS our defense against them. the fact we don't have them causes the criminal to do without as well, there's simply no need for them to pack.
it has little to do with how many they have, but the likelihood that a criminal will have one. in america, if someone kicked your door in i bet it's safe to assume you would believe they had a gun. if someone kicked my door in them having a gun would be the last thing on my mind.
KitchenKhemist
Active Member
Nope...I'm not. Are you trying to tell me handguns were specifically designed for killing people? If you are, I'd like to see you support that theory.
And yes...if someone kicked my door in, I would assume they have a gun, as that would be the worst-case scenario and I would want to be ready for that. Assuming that an intruder won't have a gun because they're illegal where you live is ignorant. Criminals don't care about a "good cost." they steal stuff.
I guess we can assume that since the Misuse of Drugs Act of 1971 made marijuana a "class B' illegal substance, nobody in the UK could get it.
And yes...if someone kicked my door in, I would assume they have a gun, as that would be the worst-case scenario and I would want to be ready for that. Assuming that an intruder won't have a gun because they're illegal where you live is ignorant. Criminals don't care about a "good cost." they steal stuff.
I guess we can assume that since the Misuse of Drugs Act of 1971 made marijuana a "class B' illegal substance, nobody in the UK could get it.
Fisherman Pete
New Member
well we all know what wiki is like in terms of "proof" and i can't be bothered to enquire in further depth, but they state the first example of a handgun was found on the site of a battle.
if not for killing people why were they invented? deer hunting? pigeon shooting? handgun hunting only became a prevalent hobby around the 1950's
what is your opinion of what a handgun was created for?
if not for killing people why were they invented? deer hunting? pigeon shooting? handgun hunting only became a prevalent hobby around the 1950's
what is your opinion of what a handgun was created for?
CSI Stickyicky
Well-Known Member
Thanks for bringing your point of view. I disagree, but i believe discourse is important, and i thank you for contributing.
The United States would not be if it had not been for our guns. Not just our revolution from the oppressive red-coats, but throughout our history. The Japanese said the reason they didnt invade the west coast during WWII was because they knew so many Americans kept guns in their house. As a nation, we use our firearms to protect our country. We view freedom as a fundamental value in our country, because so many have fought and died for the country. We are all taught as youngsters in school all about Nathan Hale's famous line "My only regret is that i have but one life to give for my country" We are all taught about the cemetery at Arlington, and the tomb of the unknown soldier. So many people have given their lives over our 200+ hundred year history for our constitution and the freedom it brings.
If we were to give up our freedoms now, than we would be spitting on the graves of all those brave men. We would be saying they died in vain.
Crime and legal gun ownership are not correlative. Britain, for example, has a very high crime rate. Even in China, with no guns available, people go on killing sprees with hammers or knives. In America, crime goes up in places where legal handguns get banned. Look at the crime rate in Chicago! Also, look at what happened in Washington DC after the SCOTUS decision in 2008. Within a year of handguns being legal, the violent crime rate dropped 25%!!!
If you desire to see the facts for yourself, here is a link with tons of great info.
http://www.gunfacts.info
Facts are facts, and opinions are opinions. If a normal law abiding citizen obtains a legal handgun, his personality structure does not suddenly change into an opportunistic criminal. If an opportunistic criminal has the intent to commit a crime, we will do it, regardless of if he has a gun or not.
The United States would not be if it had not been for our guns. Not just our revolution from the oppressive red-coats, but throughout our history. The Japanese said the reason they didnt invade the west coast during WWII was because they knew so many Americans kept guns in their house. As a nation, we use our firearms to protect our country. We view freedom as a fundamental value in our country, because so many have fought and died for the country. We are all taught as youngsters in school all about Nathan Hale's famous line "My only regret is that i have but one life to give for my country" We are all taught about the cemetery at Arlington, and the tomb of the unknown soldier. So many people have given their lives over our 200+ hundred year history for our constitution and the freedom it brings.
If we were to give up our freedoms now, than we would be spitting on the graves of all those brave men. We would be saying they died in vain.
Crime and legal gun ownership are not correlative. Britain, for example, has a very high crime rate. Even in China, with no guns available, people go on killing sprees with hammers or knives. In America, crime goes up in places where legal handguns get banned. Look at the crime rate in Chicago! Also, look at what happened in Washington DC after the SCOTUS decision in 2008. Within a year of handguns being legal, the violent crime rate dropped 25%!!!
If you desire to see the facts for yourself, here is a link with tons of great info.
http://www.gunfacts.info
Facts are facts, and opinions are opinions. If a normal law abiding citizen obtains a legal handgun, his personality structure does not suddenly change into an opportunistic criminal. If an opportunistic criminal has the intent to commit a crime, we will do it, regardless of if he has a gun or not.
Xrtnfx
Active Member
As lynyrd skynyrd would say,
'Well hand guns are made for killin'
They ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don't we dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some ole fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me'
Not that I'm against owning guns, I love to go hunting
'Well hand guns are made for killin'
They ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don't we dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some ole fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me'
Not that I'm against owning guns, I love to go hunting
KitchenKhemist
Active Member
I believe that article references a drawing of the hand cannon being used in battle. It's the oldest record of a handgun being used, NOT proof of why it was invented. Why was the rifle invented? The shotgun? The bow? The knife? The spear? If you'll do your research, you might find that most personal "weapons" have their roots buried in a hunting/survival application.
CSI Stickyicky
Well-Known Member
I agree with you that most handguns are made for the purpose of killing a human. I own a handgun, and have a permit to carry it on my person. I have never killed anyone, nor do i want to. But i still carry it, just in case. The person who holds the gun decided what it's used for, and i am a peaceful person. I could own 50 guns, and still not kill anyone.
KitchenKhemist
Active Member
I don't agree at all. Most handguns are made for the purpose of commerce.