NEW Closet Set Up for L.E.D. Stealth Grow
- Thread starter Serapis
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Serapis
Well-Known Member
Update
Weed is a versatile thing
I haven't been closely watching the plants recover. In fact, after removing from the LEDs, I thoroughly watered, put em on 20/4 lights and left em alone for three days. Amazingly, the first set of leaves held on just long enough for new growth to appear. The runt for some reason was not damaged by the LEDs and is now the best looking plant. I hate looking at pictures of injured plants, so I'm going to spare all of you. Maybe I'll do an update next weekend after new growth has established. I think all 5 are gonna make it.
Seeds:
Day 4, still no germination. I have the peat pellets in a breathable propagator now, no sign of wispy mold. One of them appears to have a tap root sticking up out of it, which is not a good sign. I'm sure the seeds were deep enough, this one just got confused it seems. I doubt it is going to make it. I'm not sure if I should interfere or not it is white and appears to be alive. I'm keeping it wet.
UPDATE:
Day 5, germination of 3 pellets.
Weed is a versatile thing
I haven't been closely watching the plants recover. In fact, after removing from the LEDs, I thoroughly watered, put em on 20/4 lights and left em alone for three days. Amazingly, the first set of leaves held on just long enough for new growth to appear. The runt for some reason was not damaged by the LEDs and is now the best looking plant. I hate looking at pictures of injured plants, so I'm going to spare all of you. Maybe I'll do an update next weekend after new growth has established. I think all 5 are gonna make it.
Seeds:
Day 4, still no germination. I have the peat pellets in a breathable propagator now, no sign of wispy mold. One of them appears to have a tap root sticking up out of it, which is not a good sign. I'm sure the seeds were deep enough, this one just got confused it seems. I doubt it is going to make it. I'm not sure if I should interfere or not it is white and appears to be alive. I'm keeping it wet.
UPDATE:
Day 5, germination of 3 pellets.
Cannabist Communist
Member
Hello again, Serapis!
I found this in your sig when you replied to Ralphie's queries about HTG's 300 watt triband LED, and I just finished reading through the whole thing. I skimmed a little bit, but I made sure not to miss anything. I'm really impressed with your rigor and diligence; there are so many people that attempt an LED grow but cave in to the anti-LED pressure and either abandon ship or supplement with some other lighting before they're halfway through the grow. People seriously need to have more patience and confidence! How are we gonna know if it's the lights or the inexperience with 'em?! Obviously people aren't seeing the same immediate results that they see with HIDs or other and get nervous about blowin' the grow on it. But you'll never know until you play around with your setup and find a good dial-in to finish your grow, people!
Anyhow, I noticed that you haven't gone back to the LEDs yet since your first encounter, and I think I've noticed something maybe the others haven't: Everyone, including you, is focusing on the height that your overhead lights were from your plants. But were your side lights on at the same time? If so, how far were they from your plants? It could be that they were just hit with too much light from all directions at once at such a tender age and were shocked really badly by it. I would recommend turning those off until they get comfortable with the overhead lights once you decide to have a second go of it. Food for thought.
I also have another suggestion in case you haven't thought of it yourself: Since your side lights are only on one side, have you considered rotating your plants and giving the individual planters a quarter turn daily? That would optimize light usage without having to add lights to other sides.
I'm in the middle of the research and development phase of my own all-LED SoG grow (not because I don't have confidence in the foliar penetration; I just want maximum bud production per square foot); I thought up the rotation scheme when considering the number of plants that'll have to share the same light source(s), but in all likelihood it's common knowledge. Some of the stuff I've read and seen on LEDs recently has me a bit shaken, like luckyskindaguy's buds, and those were grown with supplemental CFL lighting (don't get me wrong, your yield was good, lucky; I mean no disrespect: I just hope I can grow bigger buds than those with just LEDs!). But I'm more confident in the technology than others. I've seen big buds from people who claim to've used nothing but LEDs, I just haven't seen the documentation to prove it.
I can't wait to see how well this turns out, and your pics and documenting style are really precise and intriguing without going into excessive detail and pics. Although more would be nice!
I really, sincerely admire your discipline: I'm totally subbed and giving you +rep!
Cannabinoidally yours,
The Cannabist Communist
I found this in your sig when you replied to Ralphie's queries about HTG's 300 watt triband LED, and I just finished reading through the whole thing. I skimmed a little bit, but I made sure not to miss anything. I'm really impressed with your rigor and diligence; there are so many people that attempt an LED grow but cave in to the anti-LED pressure and either abandon ship or supplement with some other lighting before they're halfway through the grow. People seriously need to have more patience and confidence! How are we gonna know if it's the lights or the inexperience with 'em?! Obviously people aren't seeing the same immediate results that they see with HIDs or other and get nervous about blowin' the grow on it. But you'll never know until you play around with your setup and find a good dial-in to finish your grow, people!
Anyhow, I noticed that you haven't gone back to the LEDs yet since your first encounter, and I think I've noticed something maybe the others haven't: Everyone, including you, is focusing on the height that your overhead lights were from your plants. But were your side lights on at the same time? If so, how far were they from your plants? It could be that they were just hit with too much light from all directions at once at such a tender age and were shocked really badly by it. I would recommend turning those off until they get comfortable with the overhead lights once you decide to have a second go of it. Food for thought.
I also have another suggestion in case you haven't thought of it yourself: Since your side lights are only on one side, have you considered rotating your plants and giving the individual planters a quarter turn daily? That would optimize light usage without having to add lights to other sides.
I'm in the middle of the research and development phase of my own all-LED SoG grow (not because I don't have confidence in the foliar penetration; I just want maximum bud production per square foot); I thought up the rotation scheme when considering the number of plants that'll have to share the same light source(s), but in all likelihood it's common knowledge. Some of the stuff I've read and seen on LEDs recently has me a bit shaken, like luckyskindaguy's buds, and those were grown with supplemental CFL lighting (don't get me wrong, your yield was good, lucky; I mean no disrespect: I just hope I can grow bigger buds than those with just LEDs!). But I'm more confident in the technology than others. I've seen big buds from people who claim to've used nothing but LEDs, I just haven't seen the documentation to prove it.
I can't wait to see how well this turns out, and your pics and documenting style are really precise and intriguing without going into excessive detail and pics. Although more would be nice!
I really, sincerely admire your discipline: I'm totally subbed and giving you +rep!Cannabinoidally yours,
The Cannabist Communist
Serapis
Well-Known Member
Hello Scrumscab and and Cannabist! Welcome aboard.
I wish I had something worth photographing, but i don't. I believe I have lost the first seedling in the nursery that didn't like the LEDs, the rest have new growth and are standing straight up. The last seed to pop, the runt, is now the biggest. She is looking good and appears to be extruding her second true node. She is under direct flouros with a cycle of 20/4 and appears to be loving it.
The second batch of seeds are looking good. I have 3 poped so far, and fingers crossed for the other two. I have turned off the exhaust fan in an effort to raise the temps a few degrees in there, up to 84, in an attempt to coax the last 2 out of their seed pods.
I did go and purchase a true starting organic soil that has no added nutrients. 16 quart bag and it's super light. I've also decided to add SuperThrive to my watering routine.
I will be rotating plants around. I intend to mark the pots with plant tags and rotate them 180 degrees every watering. This should be easy enough and will allow us to see if $250 in side panels was worth it or a waste of money.
Again, thanks for watching and thanks for the +REP
I wish I had something worth photographing, but i don't. I believe I have lost the first seedling in the nursery that didn't like the LEDs, the rest have new growth and are standing straight up. The last seed to pop, the runt, is now the biggest. She is looking good and appears to be extruding her second true node. She is under direct flouros with a cycle of 20/4 and appears to be loving it.
The second batch of seeds are looking good. I have 3 poped so far, and fingers crossed for the other two. I have turned off the exhaust fan in an effort to raise the temps a few degrees in there, up to 84, in an attempt to coax the last 2 out of their seed pods.
I did go and purchase a true starting organic soil that has no added nutrients. 16 quart bag and it's super light. I've also decided to add SuperThrive to my watering routine.
I will be rotating plants around. I intend to mark the pots with plant tags and rotate them 180 degrees every watering. This should be easy enough and will allow us to see if $250 in side panels was worth it or a waste of money.
Again, thanks for watching and thanks for the +REP
Grumpy Old Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Ah ... sometime it pays to be the slow developer, let others test the water and find the problems
Thanks for a great informative thread, definitely subscribed and learning all the time.
G.O.D.
luckyskindaguy
Active Member
Retris
Member
Definitely a good idea, I was thinking about that when I first saw the set up but just started reading the whole post.
Do you have any of that planned yet, Serapis? Still have a little bit of time before they need all the LEDs anyways
Serapis
Well-Known Member
Congrats on the couch! Some neat looking furniture came from the 60's and 70's and sure beats today's bargain basement 70% off, going out of business for the 20th time crap.
Those bulk products from Fox Farm were $84 for the trio pack. So little is required per gallon that they'll last me for awhile. Thanks for that warning, I intend to introduce them slowly
I was thinking about it when I designed the grow area. I divided the area up into 3 catch trays, that each hold 6 square 7" pots. When I SOG grow, the trays are easily removed and rotated 180 and placed back in. That way the plant furthest from the side lighting will then be the closest. Keep in mind, the side panels were more or less a bonus type of deal in my thinking. Alone, they wouldn't produce much. As a supplement, if they nail me an extra Oscar or two of bonus side growth, that will be great.
This first LED grow will be a SOG type, each plant topped to promote multiple colas and staked. The strongest looking plants will be cloned and once a winner determined, I'll start cloning 8-10 cuttings at a time, and use the 4 strongest for SCROG growing. The benefit of this is to reduce the overall number of plants in my possession. If my count were to exceed 24 plants, the charge is increased to a second degree felony with 15 years in prison. This state is hard ass. Any possession of 20g or more is 5 years in prison, while some states charge a $100 civil infraction fine.
This is why I ALWAYS caution other growers to KNOW their state laws. Every cutting, seedling and plant are counted. A seedling is still considered a plant and the street value they apportion on them is ridiculous. In Genesis, God tells us that EVERY seed bearing herb on earth was put here by him as an offering of meat to us. Marijuana is a natural growing herb that does seed to reproduce, yet the majority of men have been to believe that indulging in marijuana is sinful and a gateway into hell. I think just the opposite of weed. Weed is comforting, soothing, medicinal and magical in nature.
You cannot say that about alcohol or any pills that mankind has manufactured.
Retris
Member
That's what I am sayin! AND this fake, or replacement, "incense" that kids are smoking these days as a 'legal high'. This stuff is not safe, it has been causing young kids to have heart attacks and actually killed a kid in a small town next to my hometown. If you dont know what I am talking about it is K2, Space, Spice, ETC.
It is amazing that these things that are spray on chemicals onto a plant, that has no effect on you what so ever, are legal. But marijuana, which needs no spray on chemicals and already is chemically structured to get you strictly high and not kill you, is illegal.
Quite amazed.
bandanabill3
Member
Hey man
Been following your grow since you started. I have been very interested in LED grows and its nice to have someone else do the experiment for me. I however do not think i can hold out on starting mine before yours finishes. I have done a enough research into LEDs, but im curious of your opinion, it being one that is not biased at all. I was hoping to set up a closet with less than six plants most likely four, i believe my area is like 3x6. i will running a screen above the babbies, since i have experience with scrog. what lights would you recommend if i wanted to spend about half of what you should have (~1000) on lights. The 120 watt tri-band Led grow light goes for round $250 (got that from your previous links). In addition to one or two of the tri-bands, what else would you recommend.
Thanks again, and i look forward to following the rest of your grow.
Been following your grow since you started. I have been very interested in LED grows and its nice to have someone else do the experiment for me. I however do not think i can hold out on starting mine before yours finishes. I have done a enough research into LEDs, but im curious of your opinion, it being one that is not biased at all. I was hoping to set up a closet with less than six plants most likely four, i believe my area is like 3x6. i will running a screen above the babbies, since i have experience with scrog. what lights would you recommend if i wanted to spend about half of what you should have (~1000) on lights. The 120 watt tri-band Led grow light goes for round $250 (got that from your previous links). In addition to one or two of the tri-bands, what else would you recommend.
Thanks again, and i look forward to following the rest of your grow.
Serapis
Well-Known Member
I would definitely go with two of the 120w tri-bands. The retail is $499 each, but I used HTG auctions rather than buy it now. There was a time the auctions went for nearly the retail but it seems you can get them cheaper now. It is hard for me to advise you at this point, as my plants have only spent about 5 hours under LED and it set me back weeks, because it was too soon for them evidently. (one lesson learned) I would try to buy the tri-bands at about $250 each. There is just too many cheap LED lights out there to recommend checking Craigslist for used lights, but it wouldn't hurt. I have seen from time to time a tri or quad being offered, and you do get to see it in action before paying for it.
I will say this to you, I apologize for my stupidity and for setting this experiment back a couple of weeks. I lost a plant, but the rest are recovering and the runt is working on node 3. The injured plants are working on the first true node, but they are a nice color green and alive, but damn they are growing slow now. I would not be surprised if some of the new seedlings caught them and beat them at maturing. Live and learn.
NEVER LET ANYONE TELL YOU LEDs ARE SAFE FOR 1-2" FROM TOPS. THE LIGHT IS JUST TOO INTENSE FOR YOUNG PLANTS. I went 10" and within 5 hours was showing signs of "sunburn" from the light. It never got the plants hot, but the light evaporated the moisture right out of the leaves like wicks. That is how I know that these will produce growth. For young plants, the LED should not be closer than 18" for the first several days to a week. Then you can begin lowering the lights gradually. Keep a close eye on them during this time.
I plan to be harvesting sometime in October barring any further unseen incidents. This strain does flowering in about 8 weeks under HID lighting, so we'll see with a strict LED flower. After then, I'll be able to answer your question with full authority. I plan to document this grow no matter how it turns out. If warranted, my 2nd LED grow will be a SCROG grow. I believe these lights will be perfect for it.
Whatever you do, get you some cheap shop lights and get the cool white 65k bulbs. (61k or 65k, I forget) Set up a space for seedlings, cuttings, etc. The 2' ones are ridiculous in price, so I went with 4' t-12 shop lights for $9.99 at Lowes and the bulbs came from Walmart, t-8's cool white plus 65k for about $7 a two pack. You can't beat the price for the young plants and mothers.
I'm going to do pics of what I have going on this weekend, including the injured and recovering plants. The "runt" should be at 3 nodes by then. I'll be topping it back to two true nodes once it grows the 4th.
Come back this weekend and check em out.
Cannabist Communist
Member
So sorry to hear of your loss! Hope you can work with what you've got. I'm sure you've already got a plan, but I would recommend waiting until they're at least ten inches tall before you have a second go of it. Were your side panels on that time? What about my suggestion to keep the side panels off until your plants get accustomed to your overhead LEDs; are you considering it?Hello Scrumscab and and Cannabist! Welcome aboard.
I wish I had something worth photographing, but i don't. I believe I have lost the first seedling in the nursery that didn't like the LEDs, the rest have new growth and are standing straight up. The last seed to pop, the runt, is now the biggest. She is looking good and appears to be extruding her second true node. She is under direct flouros with a cycle of 20/4 and appears to be loving it.
The second batch of seeds are looking good. I have 3 poped so far, and fingers crossed for the other two. I have turned off the exhaust fan in an effort to raise the temps a few degrees in there, up to 84, in an attempt to coax the last 2 out of their seed pods.
I did go and purchase a true starting organic soil that has no added nutrients. 16 quart bag and it's super light. I've also decided to add SuperThrive to my watering routine.
I will be rotating plants around. I intend to mark the pots with plant tags and rotate them 180 degrees every watering. This should be easy enough and will allow us to see if $250 in side panels was worth it or a waste of money.
Again, thanks for watching and thanks for the +REP
Indeed, your yield was very good for what you're working with, but the sheer size was disheartening. However, you did say that your UFO was purchased from a Chinese vendor on eBay, didn't you? And it's only ninety watts, correct? That is indeed insufficient for what you're doing, even with the CFLs. Even though your total yield was impressive with this, they were largely popcorn buds for the most part. The problem with popcorn buds is they don't get large enough to develop serious resin glands to properly mature and ripen. I'm sure their potency hasn't suffered all that much, but if you do what you said and cultivate two plants and lower your lights some, you could get some fat and potent buds. And if you top 'em you could easily keep their height under control and get a totally level canopy with a little LST. Your total yield may suffer a bit, but your potency and quality will definitely improve. And you said yourself you don't need that much and don't want your girlfriend smoking too much. You can easily increase your potency, and she won't have to smoke as much. I'm sure you're already making improvements, in addition to saving up for new equipment, but I'm just sayin'; there's much you can do with what you've got right now. That said, you've done very well, you've got some really innovative ideas, and I'm sure you're on your way to big buds in no time. I'll stay posted on you, too!
Oh, and congrats on the new couch! It's hard to find a good couch these days. My wife's uncle got a really cool orange couch from his ex-wife recently. It's super big and super comfy. I could easily sleep on it with plenty of head and foot room, and I'm well over six feet tall! And it's so comfy that when you sit on it there's no fighting the comfort; it's just bongworthy. Perhaps we should start a chit-chat thread on stoner furniture.. You sure you don't blaze? You definitely don't sound like one who abstains to me!
Serapis
Well-Known Member
OK, after writing the above entry, I pulled out my best looking plant, named Runt. It got it's name because it was the last seed to germinate, after I had given up hope. Before I tossed the pellet, I peeked inside and saw a new tap root so I watered and placed it back in it's warm and dark spot. Two days later, voila, we had germination through the soil!
This plant is now 14 days old and is generating 3rd node leaves. I've placed it under the LED's at a height of 18" and slightly watered with a bit of superthrive water. The lights are set for 24 hours on. I'm going to keep a VERY close eye on this plant until I trust I know these lights fully. You can see from the middle pic that the LED light is high above the plant this time. Lesson learned...
Come along for the LED ride....
View attachment 1104255View attachment 1104256View attachment 1104257UPDATE
This plant is now 14 days old and is generating 3rd node leaves. I've placed it under the LED's at a height of 18" and slightly watered with a bit of superthrive water. The lights are set for 24 hours on. I'm going to keep a VERY close eye on this plant until I trust I know these lights fully. You can see from the middle pic that the LED light is high above the plant this time.
Lesson learned...Come along for the LED ride....
View attachment 1104255View attachment 1104256View attachment 1104257UPDATE
Serapis
Well-Known Member
I was sure going to, but with the main light source 18" above the plant top, I'd thought I would leave them on for the time being. I'm checking the leaves every 15 minutes. My goal is to get this plant growing well so I can pot up to the 7" square 8" deep pot to give the tap room to grow. Hyrdoton is on the way, so I might be able to transplant this coming weekend.
UPDATE
I decided to be 100% safe, side panels are OFF
Cannabist Communist
Member
Lookin' good, man. Nice to see some photos of it in action. I'd say you're prob'ly safe; looks like sufficient distance. Looks like you can put 'em in much earlier than ten inches from where I'm standing. How are the other plants doin'? You still planning to line the bottom with hydroton and fill 'er up with soil? It's all soundin' very good.
Serapis, do yourself a favour and back off on the superthrive. Too much is no good. Superthrive contains a synthetic hormone called Naphthalene Acetic Acid, and too much NAA can do nasty things to your healthy plants. I understand you want the best for your plants and so do I, thats how I got into trouble with superthrive. I'd suggest substituting with vitamin B1 and limit your use of superthrive to once every 2 weeks MAX. B1 is much safer to use on a regular basis but even then, give it a straight watering once in a while. Keep the additives to a minimum.
luckyskindaguy
Active Member
So sorry to hear of your loss! Hope you can work with what you've got. I'm sure you've already got a plan, but I would recommend waiting until they're at least ten inches tall before you have a second go of it. Were your side panels on that time? What about my suggestion to keep the side panels off until your plants get accustomed to your overhead LEDs; are you considering it?
Indeed, your yield was very good for what you're working with, but the sheer size was disheartening. However, you did say that your UFO was purchased from a Chinese vendor on eBay, didn't you? And it's only ninety watts, correct? That is indeed insufficient for what you're doing, even with the CFLs. Even though your total yield was impressive with this, they were largely popcorn buds for the most part. The problem with popcorn buds is they don't get large enough to develop serious resin glands to properly mature and ripen. I'm sure their potency hasn't suffered all that much, but if you do what you said and cultivate two plants and lower your lights some, you could get some fat and potent buds. And if you top 'em you could easily keep their height under control and get a totally level canopy with a little LST. Your total yield may suffer a bit, but your potency and quality will definitely improve. And you said yourself you don't need that much and don't want your girlfriend smoking too much. You can easily increase your potency, and she won't have to smoke as much. I'm sure you're already making improvements, in addition to saving up for new equipment, but I'm just sayin'; there's much you can do with what you've got right now. That said, you've done very well, you've got some really innovative ideas, and I'm sure you're on your way to big buds in no time. I'll stay posted on you, too!
Oh, and congrats on the new couch! It's hard to find a good couch these days. My wife's uncle got a really cool orange couch from his ex-wife recently. It's super big and super comfy. I could easily sleep on it with plenty of head and foot room, and I'm well over six feet tall! And it's so comfy that when you sit on it there's no fighting the comfort; it's just bongworthy. Perhaps we should start a chit-chat thread on stoner furniture.. You sure you don't blaze? You definitely don't sound like one who abstains to me!
I smoke from time to time, maybe 1-2 times a month. My girl smokes daily and a few times a day on the weekend days. Here is a pic of the couch
Might just be the best $50 EVER! That's a 53# Boxer and she only takes up one cushionSerapis, don't discount the late poppers. Cameo was a late arrival when I sprouted her and a couple other seeds. She turned out to be the best of my bagseeders. Granted you are working with brand name genetics, so it may not make a huge difference but everyone roots for the come from behind victory
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