"LED" LIGHT ARRAYS! All about them...

[CaliforniaGlad]

The first attachment shows ALL of our light spectrum. Note that none of us us can see the infrared or ultraviolet parts of light without very special equipment.

Our PLANTS are extremely happy with broad-spectrum "white" sunlight (See the "Natural Sunlight" chart below) and Indoor growers have to make decisions about lighting before the whole indoor show begins.

The new LED LIGHT ARRAYS are quite tempting for a lot of reasons! Low power consumption, small size and temperature considerations are three good ones. One more is, if the power supply is well regulated the LED light output should remain constant for years!... But read on.

Consider a LED ARRAY that has just one color LED ~ BLUE in example:

Hint: For now disregard all of the dashed lines in any of the charts below... don't let them confuse you.

The last left panel shows us that BLUE LED's "spike" at about 460nm... and note that it IS just that ~ a "SPIKE". GREEN LED's "spike" at about 525nm and the RED LED's "spike" at 640nm.

Therefore, our plants MUST be satisfied with only ONE SPIKE of color ~ BLUE, in example and the same is true for GREEN and RED LEDs!

It is extremely important to notice how very SHARP and NARROW the spikes are! Look again at the Natural Sunlight chart and you will quickly see for yourself what's missing using LED ARRAYS!

So even if we had a LED ARRAY with all three colors, your plants would STILL be missing tremendous amounts of the 'sunlight' spectrum. It's much like a smile with only three teeth or spikes... not so nice.

WHITE LED's:

The chart on the extreme right shows us that the WHITE LED is NOT a "full spectrum" white light!... not even close to it. WHITE LEDs "Spike" at 460nm, dips at 500nm then a slight easy hump-rise to about 575nm, but still not reaching full output power there. WHITE LEDs are still missing substantial parts of the sunlight spectrum.

Compare that white chart with the "sunlight" chart.

IF after reading this you still decide to buy one, be sure to check the specifications about the light pattern or footprint. That is, while the ARRAY may appear somewhat bright and intense looking directly at it, the ARRAY may have only enough light power to support ONE, maybe two mature plants!

For smaller baby plants and sprouts LED Arrays may be a better choice and if I had to choose a LED ARRAY, my choice would be the WHITE.

Hope this helps you!

I remain,
SOGLAD

*Sorry if the attachments are out of order... the message is the same.

 

[CaliforniaGlad]

I have attached another chart for you to consider.

Please see that the 'footprint' or 'spotlight' from LEDs are quite narrow ~ no more than 18 degrees at best! This means ALL of your plants had better be DIRECTLY under the LED Array for maximum exposure.

Any plant out of the footprint will suffer accordingly.

Hope this helps!
SOGLAD

 

[dannydakota]

Still getting one.

 

[Balzac89]

Dude, thats totally right. Fuck LED's they don't got shit on HPS or even a cfl lol

 

[dannydakota]

What I got from this was LEDs hit the spectrums used for photo stuff. Not the wasted spectrums. Don't think plants use the full spectrum cause they enjoy the variety.

Most completed journals I see with strictly LED hit pretty close to 1g per watt. So, watt for watt, seem pretty competitive to HPS and blows away CFL.

Some people aren't drug dealers and grow for personal use. So the lack of heat and stealth from LED is a pretty good option. HID and CFL isn't for everyone.

 

[CaliforniaGlad]

OK Danny!

Go for it and please post your results...

SOGLAD

 

[jamNburn]

Idk. But I want one. There's some pretty nice grows with them. I'd like to get one for vegging at least. I'm running 100 watts (actual) of cfl and I think a 100 watt led would probably do better. But I'll still wait for the prices to drop a bit. And for some better info to be out there

 

[CaliforniaGlad]

Danny,

You mentioned wasted spectrum, but I'm not so sure plants see it that way. While certain colors do promote the veg and bloom stages it means that one needs to purchase TWO Arrays if you really want to do things LED-right.

I think I read the words "wasted spectrum" at a site that was promoting it's LED arrays... no surprise there.

Again, Danny, if you do go with a LED Array I hope you will post your choices and results here.

I remain,
SOGLAD

What I got from this was LEDs hit the spectrums used for photo stuff. Not the wasted spectrums. Don't think plants use the full spectrum cause they enjoy the variety.

Most completed journals I see with strictly LED hit pretty close to 1g per watt. So, watt for watt, seem pretty competitive to HPS and blows away CFL.

Some people aren't drug dealers and grow for personal use. So the lack of heat and stealth from LED is a pretty good option. HID and CFL isn't for everyone.

 

[gobbly]

I have attached another chart for you to consider.

Please see that the 'footprint' or 'spotlight' from LEDs are quite narrow ~ no more than 18 degrees at best! This means ALL of your plants had better be DIRECTLY under the LED Array for maximum exposure.

Any plant out of the footprint will suffer accordingly.

Hope this helps!
SOGLAD

Good post. Something to consider though, the dispersement angle of the light is determined by the optics, not the diodes, and an 18 degree footprint almost sounds like a diode without optics. Most optics are 90 or 120 degrees, and high quality optics will properly distribute the light over the whole dispersement angle. One of the problems with LED's though is that there is so much crap out there, and poor quality optics won't disperse the light well.

You could also mix spectra (which is actually not difficult with LED) to create really anything you want, but it's not being done commercially, so you are left having to build it yourself, which is no small feat. Even ordering led parts is a lesson in frustration. So many different options, thousands of combinations you can go with, and to make it worse, the places selling the parts you want will expect you know what you want. LED ordering is often times you looking at huge lists of 6-12 digit product codes with no descriptions or anything.

 

[CaliforniaGlad]

Gobbly,

Right you are! One of the key factors in LED's is the optics. For the record, the 18 degree footprint does not surprise me because the documentation for my LED Array said all the plants need to be directly below the Array.

And you are also correct about the many LED manufactures who crank-out junk. Specifications do get deep and there are many factors to consider when ordering LED's as you rightfully point out. I suppose if someone had the LED grids and cases built in quantity they could put some unemployed to work and crank-out even better Arrays, but until the LEDs get better, it's nothing I would seriously consider...

Like many things, I think LED Arrays WILL only get better. Just look at the progress in CFL living room lights. They started out poor in color and low in lumens, but today there are low-cost 'daylight' CFLs that work quite well and the poor yellowish CFLs are a thing of the past. All this progress in just a few years and I expect to see similar progress in LEDs.

Even today we see LEDs at work in televisions, street stop lights, tail lights and so much more! Some LEDs are bright enough to be seen in a daylight stadium display and a dependable long life can be reasonably expected. Lower power demands and lower heat generation are two great benefits as well. But as far as LEDs for gardening ~ they are simply not ready for prime time yet.

Sure many of us will plunk down the bux as I did, but after reasonable testing, my LED Array results were extremely disappointing and I won't be using the Array for any of my growing needs in the future. Needless to say, it was a very expensive lesson for me and I hope my posts will help others decide what they want to do and what they can honestly expect. I have no axe to grind against LED's... I only strive to post the facts.

Thanks so much for your input, Gobbly! Your thoughts are appreciated.

SOGLAD

Good post. Something to consider though, the dispersement angle of the light is determined by the optics, not the diodes, and an 18 degree footprint almost sounds like a diode without optics. Most optics are 90 or 120 degrees, and high quality optics will properly distribute the light over the whole dispersement angle. One of the problems with LED's though is that there is so much crap out there, and poor quality optics won't disperse the light well.

You could also mix spectra (which is actually not difficult with LED) to create really anything you want, but it's not being done commercially, so you are left having to build it yourself, which is no small feat. Even ordering led parts is a lesson in frustration. So many different options, thousands of combinations you can go with, and to make it worse, the places selling the parts you want will expect you know what you want. LED ordering is often times you looking at huge lists of 6-12 digit product codes with no descriptions or anything.

 

[gobbly]

couldn't agree with you more

 

[lawngnome420]

i am getting leds. i would go with hps but electricity is an issue now and heat. so these should do me plenty of good

 

[CaliforniaGlad]

Yo Gnome...

Yes, I can appreciate your concerns, however, for the money you will be investing, in a LED Array or two, please consider T5 lighting instead.

T5's are a little more money now, but if you grow more than one plant, it's a wonderful solution.

Remember, LED Arrays' light footprint is quite directional ~ almost like a flashlight and therefore will support only one plant and not very effectively because the LEDs must almost touch the top of your plant. This means the sides and inside growth of your plant will only receive very limited light your plant will not produce anywhere as much as it could.

I've seen at least one Lady on this site who uses LED's with great success, but she is using 6 or 8 panels to address mounted on their sides to address the side-light problem I mention above. She also has to use Arrays (panels) of different LED colors to satisfy her plants effectively through their growing cycles.

I spoke at length with my local hydro-shop guru and he called LEDs a "selling gimmick" and that LEDs are not ready for serious growing. For his customers that did buy LED Arrays, all soon told him how unhappy they were with the LED panels and they all came back to buy either T5's or other high-power lighting. At this point his business no longer carries any LED panels!

With T5 lighting, the light spectrum and light output quantity is abundant! A single T5 light will easily support two medium plants and three if you push it. The cost of running a T5 panel is really quite reasonable too when one considers the cost of a tiny baggie of bud from a dispensary!

With my last T5 crop my plants began to fill in from the sides and inside too. My T5's were originally lighting from the top down so the plant tops grew the fastest, but the insidesof my plants were eclipsed from adequate lighting by the branches above.

I kept my T5's horizontal but moved them to the side of my plants angled the light down for maximum plant coverage, top-to-bottom. Now the side/inside growth really took off too! But this new mounting meant that the other side of the plant was lacking effective lighting. To address that problem, each day I would carefully rotate the plants so all sides would take turns getting maximum light exposure. This also gave me a perfect chance to closely inspect each plant as I rotated them.

Now my plants quickly grew fuller and taller. Weeks later I mounted my T5's vertical and angled down for maximum plant coverage, top-to-bottom. Wow, my plants loved it and thrived! However, there was a trade-off. Now the plants left and right of the vertical T5 panels didn't have the same light exposure they did before so growth was not quite the same as before. I suppose MYLAR would have been a reasonable answer for the 'dark sides', but I opted to buy more T5 panels instead and never regretted it since and now there is no need to rotate my plants at all.

With this new approach I had MORE and BIGGER buds than I've ever seen from any previous crops! Hearty and abundant buds from the insides of the plants too!

You could do the same thing with one T5 panel for two, maybe three large plants, but you will need to rotate the plants daily to satisfy all sides of your plants. If I noticed any plant side that didn't have the same growth as the rest of the plant, I would give that side a extra day of maximum exposure to help fill-in that side until it did.

Gnome, a LED panel(s) are entirely your choice. If you decide to go with LED's I hope you will please post your progress here! Inquiring minds want to know...


I remain,
SO-GLAD

i am getting leds. i would go with hps but electricity is an issue now and heat. so these should do me plenty of good

 

[Smuggler]

What I got from this was LEDs hit the spectrums used for photo stuff. Not the wasted spectrums. Don't think plants use the full spectrum cause they enjoy the variety.

Most completed journals I see with strictly LED hit pretty close to 1g per watt. So, watt for watt, seem pretty competitive to HPS and blows away CFL.

Some people aren't drug dealers and grow for personal use. So the lack of heat and stealth from LED is a pretty good option. HID and CFL isn't for everyone.

+1 Smuggler

 

[tybudz]

I was using A red blue mix ufo. 90w. one giant plant. yeild 3 oz dry. my 150W hps same strain yeilded 2oz. dont know if that helps. used T5 for veg on both plants and split them when i started budding.

 

[tybudz]

I do leave the T5 during budding though. with both plants.

 

[tybudz]

im on my 3rd with the dual red and blue 90w ufo. this one is with 150w cfls as well. very dense !!

 

[solarguy]

I have attached another chart for you to consider.

Please see that the 'footprint' or 'spotlight' from LEDs are quite narrow ~ no more than 18 degrees at best! This means ALL of your plants had better be DIRECTLY under the LED Array for maximum exposure.

Any plant out of the footprint will suffer accordingly.

Hope this helps!
SOGLAD

they make wide angle bulbs, i use 6 watt 140 degree angle bulbs....deep penetration and wide even coverage....also to clear up what was trying to be said LED's light is more useful but compared to the percentage of light even though HID might give out a ton more light alot of that is wasted even though the part that is used can kick the LED's ass....

LED;s are good for personal use, i like them bc there is no heat, no electric bill, no extra ventilation, no bulb replacment, more stealth....i think the heat helps the odor...i have no odor control besides air freshener plug ins and my apartment is fine...

if i was selling and trying to profit i would totally use HID...LED'sdo work and they work great the bud i get is more potent than my friends same exact strains under HPS...

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/385595-led-grow-siiiiick-haight-solid.html

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/385595-led-grow-siiiiick-haight-solid.html


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[dannydakota]

Danny,

You mentioned wasted spectrum, but I'm not so sure plants see it that way. While certain colors do promote the veg and bloom stages it means that one needs to purchase TWO Arrays if you really want to do things LED-right.

I think I read the words "wasted spectrum" at a site that was promoting it's LED arrays... no surprise there.

Again, Danny, if you do go with a LED Array I hope you will post your choices and results here.

I remain,
SOGLAD

Sorry for the very late reply. I started a grow about a month after you posted this. 120w (1w bulbs), 2 autoflowers, FFOF, no nutes (only calmag) I got ~2oz each. So I did pretty darn close to the 1g/watt thing.

But the killer thing was the lamp only pulled ~91w according to my kill-a-watt. So that would put my results closer to 1.6g/watt with only calmag and water.

Right now, I upgraded and am using an upgraded 120w that has 2w bulbs. Haven't completed a grow with that one yet.

Here's some pics from that first LED grow.

 

[RalphCurtis]

Danny,

You mentioned wasted spectrum, but I'm not so sure plants see it that way. While certain colors do promote the veg and bloom stages it means that one needs to purchase TWO Arrays if you really want to do things LED-right.

I think I read the words "wasted spectrum" at a site that was promoting it's LED arrays... no surprise there.

Again, Danny, if you do go with a LED Array I hope you will post your choices and results here.

I remain,
SOGLAD

I think the point is HPS, CFL and such emit some light that CANNOT be used by the plant. The chlorophylls in them do not use much of the white light spectrum so the generation of that light, and the associated heat in doing so, is a "waste".

The theory in LED's is they emit a very narrow spectrum and therefore can be tuned to the plant's exact needs and can do it with little heat production. Watts used to make heat are truly wasted.

500 watts of HPS is at best 35 % efficient. 65 % of the energy consumed by that light produces nothing of benefit to the plant. LED's claim efficiency in the 70's or higher so do the math. You should get the same grow capabilities from 250 watts of LED as that of 500 HPS. And you have a bunch less heat to deal with.

There are additional savings in the cost of the hardware. LED grow lights are not that expensive and they outlast HPS considerably. If you grow for 3 years LEDs cost less.