Vote NO on prop 19... (great read for anyone that will be voting in november in cali)

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nathenking

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You kind of missed the point. What standard did you fight for when they said that medical patients could only grow X plants, could only posesss X amount of bud, could only do it with a doctors recomendation, could only do it in their home state, could still get arrested and taken to court and have your plants taken. What standards were set when you decided they could screw you over that badly just for some "medicine"?

You have a go at 19 for not being completely what the smoker wants, yet 215 was no different, and you are all in love with the thing and would cry to heaven if it went away.
We learned our lesson from 215 man... Thats why you write the thing righti in the first place... Then all the bullshit fighting over plant numbers/area and arrests can be dodged.. We learned our lesson from 215, hence we dont want to write something that will take a decade to ammend it... Why not write it right for 2012??? it may be 2 years away but could save 8 years of BS arests and arguments...
 

Burger Boss

Well-Known Member
prop 19 destroys prop215
Please try to explain how that works.......you saying it certainly doesn't make it so......c'mon genius, put it out there......give it your best shot....
Explain exactly HOW Prop 19 "destroys" 215......And NO cheating....SHOW US the wording in 19, that "destroys" 215......And NOT "what my friend says, (you've already laid YOUR ignorance off on a "friend" once, it wont fly again!).

So let us have it....."Prop 19 will destroy prop 215 because of this wording, ______________________________".
Real easy, just fill in the blank..........

This should be good!
 
Exactly... But nobody sees it... They are gonna give this beautiful plant over to them without a fight, well with a fight... I dont know a single person that is gonna vote yes... Actually I do... Its a bunch of 18-20 year olds that are like WOOHOO LEGALIZE IT... They sound so ridiculous... But after I take 15 minutes to explain just a few key points, there grins turn to frowns and they realize that is a bullshit bill...
The anti- 19 ad campaigns have already began, maybe you have seen some. You agree with them but for way different reasons, right? But you tout how you and all your friends and whoever you can convince will vote no. So be it. Join them. Now picture these same ads in the next election cycle with something like this tacked on the end, Prop 215, a scam to semi-legalize marijuana for thousands who have obtained cards through a system that has been corrupted beyond the intent of the law. The majority of Californians rejected marijuana in November 2010, now help us rid our cities, towns and neighborhoods of this dangerous drug.
Or worse yet, a bill proposed in the state legislature that seeks to amend 215 to end the "corruption". One created by those who feel they have a mandate from the majority of californians who have proved with prop 19 that they don't want widespread marijuana use.
 

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
Here;s a question then. How would you all vote if there was no MMJ and all cannabis you smoked was illegal under state and federal law?
 

Burger Boss

Well-Known Member
Exactly... But nobody sees it... They are gonna give this beautiful plant over to them without a fight, well with a fight... I dont know a single person that is gonna vote yes... Actually I do... Its a bunch of 18-20 year olds that are like WOOHOO LEGALIZE IT... They sound so ridiculous... But after I take 15 minutes to explain just a few key points, there grins turn to frowns and they realize that is a bullshit bill...
Gee Nate, I wish I WAS 18/20 again, LOL, But sadly for me, that was a long time ago.

Let's try this: Here is an "esteemed" spokeswoman for the Naysayers: http://www.blogger.com/profile/09591176724291871970

And this is a spokesman for prop 19: http://sjcbc.org/2010/09/11/an-open-letter-on-prop-19/

Now, who ya gonna believe??......"Dragonfly De La Luz", a self promoting "media" star or J. David Nick, some dumb attorney who's spent half his life DEFENDING marijuana cases, (and VERY sucessfuly IMA!).

ROFLMAO
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
Here;s a question then. How would you all vote if there was no MMJ and all cannabis you smoked was illegal under state and federal law?
I would vote NO, Im a constitutionalist, not a capalist... There should be no limit on plant numbers, area possesion... etc...
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
The anti- 19 ad campaigns have already began, maybe you have seen some. You agree with them but for way different reasons, right? But you tout how you and all your friends and whoever you can convince will vote no. So be it. Join them. Now picture these same ads in the next election cycle with something like this tacked on the end, Prop 215, a scam to semi-legalize marijuana for thousands who have obtained cards through a system that has been corrupted beyond the intent of the law. The majority of Californians rejected marijuana in November 2010, now help us rid our cities, towns and neighborhoods of this dangerous drug.
Or worse yet, a bill proposed in the state legislature that seeks to amend 215 to end the "corruption". One created by those who feel they have a mandate from the majority of californians who have proved with prop 19 that they don't want widespread marijuana use.
Speculation.... Imagine this Imagine that... Speculation doesnt mean anything... The only thing you can hang your hat on is Money... And The POWER OF AMERICAN GREED... That is what this BILL is about... Controlling so they can make money... Im not down for contorlling so some rich beuracrat can have another vacation house... Rich get Richer and we stay the same...
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
Gee Nate, I wish I WAS 18/20 again, LOL, But sadly for me, that was a long time ago.

Let's try this: Here is an "esteemed" spokeswoman for the Naysayers: http://www.blogger.com/profile/09591176724291871970

And this is a spokesman for prop 19: http://sjcbc.org/2010/09/11/an-open-letter-on-prop-19/

Now, who ya gonna believe??......"Dragonfly De La Luz", a self promoting "media" star or J. David Nick, some dumb attorney who's spent half his life DEFENDING marijuana cases, (and VERY sucessfuly IMA!).

ROFLMAO
Thats apples and oranges bro... Try comparing drangon to some uptight conservative that doesnt smoke MJ... That is more relative... She is not a esteemed attorney, just a regular person who cares...
 

Teeaytchsee

Active Member
USA -- Marijuana users are an extremely diverse group. Whether it be medical or recreational use, they can be found in almost every demographic imaginable in America. As such, there are a wide variety of opinions on how marijuana should be treated by society at large, as well as how to achieve such goals. This shouldn't be surprising, and there is always room for debate on what the best models and methods for reform should be. Recently, however, a disturbing trend has emerged.

It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry, both legal and illicit, who are actively fighting against efforts to make marijuana legal for all adults. There are several arguments being thrown around to defend the status quo of marijuana prohibition. Some of those arguments are well intentioned but shortsighted. Some are downright malicious. The one commonality they have is their divisive effect on the movement at a time when unity is crucial to finally end the government's war on marijuana users.

A common complaint is that, in a regulated marijuana market, big corporations will push out small businesses. This is an understandable fear, especially to someone who has spent his or her life, and risked imprisonment and persecution, trying to run a marijuana-related business. These people surely do not want to see a culture and industry that they love taken over by corporate interests and diluted. But corporations already control marijuana.

They are the cartels that heavily influence the market and bring death to our borders and our inner cities. They are the prison-builders that lobby for harsher sentencing so they can keep the cells full and the cash flowing. They are the pharmaceutical companies that stonewall cannabinoid research so they can keep pushing expensive pills.

Of course some big businesses are going to see opportunity in a newly legal and regulated marijuana market and will try to take advantage of it. And surely some of their practices will be detestable. Marijuana consumers have a right to choose, though. Big businesses cannot "ruin marijuana" any more than Coors has ruined beer. As with alcohol, with its thriving microbrew industry, there will inevitably be a large market for higher-quality, locally grown marijuana.

Another popular attack against potential reforms is that they do not go far enough. There are many people who feel very strongly about securing certain protections, whether they be the right to grow at home, amnesty for marijuana prisoners, personal possession limits, and so on. The most vocal among them feel so strongly that they would rather see a decent bill fail than pass without their inclusion.

While we can sit around dreaming about what the country would be like with "perfect" marijuana laws, the political reality is that we cannot get anywhere near there without taking incremental steps. We are fighting against more than seventy years of lies and propaganda, as well as entrenched corporate and government interests. By building on small victories, we can more easily pass improved laws and overturn bad portions of otherwise good laws. We cannot build on zero victories. While we sit around arguing about minor concessions and principles, people are going to jail or dying. We cannot afford to wait for the rest of the country to come around to the way of thinking of the more radical among us, even if we might agree with them.

The worst obstructionist arguments come from people who are doing just fine under prohibition. They come from the growers and dealers, who stand to lose a little bit of the tremendous amount of money they make in the illegal market. They come from the guys that think marijuana is only "cool" if it is unregulated, and don't want to lose their status. They come from the young adults who simply do not care if it is legal or not, because they are going to do it anyway.

Never mind that their lifestyles come at the expense of others' freedom! In all seriousness, if you want to be a cool, wealthy outlaw, here is some advice: develop a personality, and buy a motorcycle. The rest of us are sick of living our lives on the lam for you. If you cannot support marijuana reform because of such selfish reasoning, please remove yourself from the debate.

The time has never been better for making real progress in marijuana reform. As we propose new changes and laws, everyone should get a chance to voice their opinions or concerns. When we have a chance to pass improved marijuana laws, however, we need to present a united front. As long as someone can be arrested for marijuana in the United States, we need to support each other -- even if we, as individuals, do not get exactly what we want. For registered voters in California, this means coming out to the polls on November 2 to vote yes on Proposition 19.

Note: It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry who are fighting against efforts to make it legal for all adults.

Source: AlterNet (US)
Author: Morgan Fox
Published: September 15, 2010
Copyright: 2010 Independent Media Institute
Contact: letters@alternet.org
Website: http://www.alternet.org/
URL: http://alternet.org/story/148189/

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nathenking

Well-Known Member
USA -- Marijuana users are an extremely diverse group. Whether it be medical or recreational use, they can be found in almost every demographic imaginable in America. As such, there are a wide variety of opinions on how marijuana should be treated by society at large, as well as how to achieve such goals. This shouldn't be surprising, and there is always room for debate on what the best models and methods for reform should be. Recently, however, a disturbing trend has emerged.

It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry, both legal and illicit, who are actively fighting against efforts to make marijuana legal for all adults. There are several arguments being thrown around to defend the status quo of marijuana prohibition. Some of those arguments are well intentioned but shortsighted. Some are downright malicious. The one commonality they have is their divisive effect on the movement at a time when unity is crucial to finally end the government's war on marijuana users.

A common complaint is that, in a regulated marijuana market, big corporations will push out small businesses. This is an understandable fear, especially to someone who has spent his or her life, and risked imprisonment and persecution, trying to run a marijuana-related business. These people surely do not want to see a culture and industry that they love taken over by corporate interests and diluted. But corporations already control marijuana.

They are the cartels that heavily influence the market and bring death to our borders and our inner cities. They are the prison-builders that lobby for harsher sentencing so they can keep the cells full and the cash flowing. They are the pharmaceutical companies that stonewall cannabinoid research so they can keep pushing expensive pills.


The Cartels are now corporations.... YEAH RIGHT... Guess what, the majority of Mexischwagg goes to places other than cali.... Cali has some of if not the best weed in the world... aint nobody buying and smoking that shit... It all goes to the midwest and the south... Its everywhere in those areas... I cant even find schwagg... all chronic... Those cartels will be fighting over the territory whether MJ is legal or illegal... its much more than just MJ,
All of asudden the violence stops because we can have a ounce.... LMAO... It wont stop, they will fight over there remaining profit probably harder than what they do now... So its not crazy to consider that violence will remain the same or even go up... maybe... its all speculation, just like its speculation to say that the violence will go down...
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
We learned our lesson from 215 man... Thats why you write the thing righti in the first place... Then all the bullshit fighting over plant numbers/area and arrests can be dodged.. We learned our lesson from 215, hence we dont want to write something that will take a decade to ammend it...
Some things are worth a decades long fight. I think prop 215 proved it was.

Why not write it right for 2012???
I'll write a way better law than prop 19 that allows people to grow and possess all the bud they want, bans taxes, etc. All you have to do is give me 2 million dollars to get it on the ballot and another million dollars for advertisement. Deal?

People can write whatever they want, unless it has a few million dollars backing it up then it won't make the ballot. There is no guarantee and it's not even likely that any legalization prop would have the funding required in 2012. Seems like waiting for something that will never happen to me.
 
Speculation.... Imagine this Imagine that... Speculation doesnt mean anything... The only thing you can hang your hat on is Money... And The POWER OF AMERICAN GREED... That is what this BILL is about... Controlling so they can make money... Im not down for contorlling so some rich beuracrat can have another vacation house... Rich get Richer and we stay the same...
It is speculation and fear (on my part) but all your talk about capitulation to big business, infringement on your rights granted by 215, the future price of pot are speculation as well. The people at Norml seem to disagree with you on your speculations. I chose their legal opinion over yours. About money, are you afraid your customers will buy from big business or grow their own?
 

Teeaytchsee

Active Member
Some of those arguments are well intentioned but shortsighted. Some are downright malicious. The one commonality they have is their divisive effect on the movement at a time when unity is crucial to finally end the government's war on marijuana users.[/COLOR]
The Cartels are now corporations.... YEAH RIGHT... Guess what, the majority of Mexischwagg goes to places other than cali.... Cali has some of if not the best weed in the world... aint nobody buying and smoking that shit... It all goes to the midwest and the south... Its everywhere in those areas... I cant even find schwagg... all chronic... Those cartels will be fighting over the territory whether MJ is legal or illegal... its much more than just MJ,
All of asudden the violence stops because we can have a ounce.... LMAO... It wont stop, they will fight over there remaining profit probably harder than what they do now... So its not crazy to consider that violence will remain the same or even go up... maybe... its all speculation, just like its speculation to say that the violence will go down...
there's no point re-stating whats already been said so ill simply refer you back to https://www.rollitup.org/politics/353347-official-cast-your-vote-prop.html for more info stated clearly, concisely, and without (much or intended) bias. educate yourself plz and stop being "short-sighted or malicious". we've taken the time to listen to what you have to say and found evidence against your claims. show the same respect and take the time to listen to the side you are debating against.
 

Burger Boss

Well-Known Member
Thats apples and oranges bro... Try comparing dragon to some uptight conservative that doesnt smoke MJ... That is more relative... She is not a esteemed attorney, just a regular person who cares...
"Apples & Oranges", NOT! Nate. They both take strong positions on the issue at hand, I fail to see that as irrelevant.
You seem to be saying that we should listen to the "Dragonfly", because "she's a regular person who cares", and blow off the attorney who understands the wording of 19, and has been totally involved in defending, MM rights for years.
Yeah, you're right, HE'S obviously the bad guy who doesn't care.
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
It is speculation and fear (on my part) but all your talk about capitulation to big business, infringement on your rights granted by 215, the future price of pot are speculation as well. The people at Norml seem to disagree with you on your speculations. I chose their legal opinion over yours. About money, are you afraid your customers will buy from big business or grow their own?
No Im not afraid about my customers, because they are my friends... Im all about spreading wealth around... With this law, that means that more all ready rich folk will be making more money and hurting the lil guy... Just like family farms man... Where the hell did they go... Oh yeah, big business... the very entitiy that runs the nation... Im anticorporation no matter which way its being proposed... It used to be that the small business owner had a few employees... The business owner pulled in 100K and his employees pulled in half of that... That is main street.... Now you have wallstreet, which the owner/owners pulling in millions and the workers still at 50K... Get rich off of others hard work... Im not down with that... Hence I hook up my friends cheap
so they can make money...
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
"Apples & Oranges", NOT! Nate. They both take strong positions on the issue at hand, I fail to see that as irrelevant.
You seem to be saying that we should listen to the "Dragonfly", because "she's a regular person who cares", and blow off the attorney who understands the wording of 19, and has been totally involved in defending, MM rights for years.
Yeah, you're right, HE'S obviously the bad guy who doesn't care.
Im saying that you should compare lawyers to lawyers, and regular people to regular people is all.... You know what I mean...
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
It is speculation and fear (on my part) but all your talk about capitulation to big business, infringement on your rights granted by 215, the future price of pot are speculation as well. The people at Norml seem to disagree with you on your speculations. I chose their legal opinion over yours. About money, are you afraid your customers will buy from big business or grow their own?
All speculation... I do agree sir... That is all this is... We have all read the law, now we speculate on what will happen and who will be affected... No one here nows that, so we keep doing this exercise of futility... It is good tho, we all have our opinions and we all share them with respect... That is a very positive thing IMO... Wether this law passes or not, we will all be fine... There are much bigger issues in this country and world, and especially the state of CA that we really should be disgusing, but we are like the rest of america... We get tunnel vision and dont realize that things continue to get worse for us and our children no matter what we do...
 
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