Islam: Evil or misunderstood

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
how many muslims did it take to put that knife into a directors chest 1?

theres 1.5 billion muslims are they all guilty of that crime? no

the actions of a few are not indicative of the whole group

this has got nothing to do with freedom of speech
It may have been one bad actor committing the crime. According to the murderer, he is a martyr in the worldwide jihad. And Like Hugo Stiglitz in Ingourious Basterds, he came to the attention of the professionals.

An Al Queda branch office North Africa offered to negotiate an exchange with the Dutch government for the killer Mohammed Bouyeri. Here a link to a Dutch article on the offer. It's in Dutch.

http://www.elsevier.nl/web/Nieuws/Nederland/275710/AlQaida-wil-Mohammed-Bouyeri-ruilen-voor-gijzelaars.htm#

And the message conveyed to the world by that murder was this: "Offend our precious Muslim sensibilities and this is how you end up"

I never said all Muslims were violent. I do, however, say that the overwhelming silence on the Muslim street in the face of such barbarity is either tacit approval, or possibly fear of speaking out.
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
It may have been one bad actor committing the crime. According to the murderer, he is a martyr in the worldwide jihad. And Like Hugo Stiglitz in Ingourious Basterds, he came to the attention of the professionals.

An Al Queda branch office North Africa offered to negotiate an exchange with the Dutch government for the killer Mohammed Bouyeri. Here a link to a Dutch article on the offer. It's in Dutch.

http://www.elsevier.nl/web/Nieuws/Nederland/275710/AlQaida-wil-Mohammed-Bouyeri-ruilen-voor-gijzelaars.htm#

And the message conveyed to the world by that murder was this: "Offend our precious Muslim sensibilities and this is how you end up"

I never said all Muslims were violent. I do, however, say that the overwhelming silence on the Muslim street in the face of such barbarity is either tacit approval, or possibly fear of speaking out.

"Thread: Islam: Evil or misunderstood"


there isnt silence from the rest of the muslim world there is always condemnation of attacks across the board when ever they occour
 

jeff f

New Member
"Thread: Islam: Evil or misunderstood"


there isnt silence from the rest of the muslim world there is always condemnation of attacks across the board when ever they occour
what board are you talking about? i never hear condemnation. i see lots of parades when shit happens like the towers going down. or when some screwball wants to burn a koran, threatening death, fatwas, or stonings.

face it, mainstream muslims are okay with things like honor killings and the like. they are part of the laws of muslim countries. along with public beheadings, discrimination against women, gays, jews.....pretty much everything NOT muslim.

btw, tell muhammad to suck my balls.
 

HomeGrown&Smoked

Active Member
Obviously crying racism comes naturally to you when you run out of salient points.
FYI- racism applies to more than one race- I haven't run out of points, just letting you know that your non-white hard-on is showing. You failed to get my point, so I will try to make it as simple aas possible for you to understand- not all Muslims are extremist, but the ones you hear the most about are. Broad generalizations do not work- otherwise every Catholic supports raping children. You seem to forget that there are Muslims in the armed forces that are fighting the war on terror- one of them went crazy in Ft. Hood, but you don't get news report on the thousands of Muslim soldiers that are carrying out their orders for their country. In your eyes they are no different than the extremist. So you might not racist, I will give you that, but if you aren't, then you are fascist.

I would expect a rocket surgeon like yourself would understand that.
Don't dish on rocket surgery- it is just as lucrative as being a pothead neo-con.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
FYI- racism applies to more than one race- I haven't run out of points, just letting you know that your non-white hard-on is showing. You failed to get my point, so I will try to make it as simple aas possible for you to understand- not all Muslims are extremist, but the ones you hear the most about are. Broad generalizations do not work- otherwise every Catholic supports raping children. You seem to forget that there are Muslims in the armed forces that are fighting the war on terror- one of them went crazy in Ft. Hood, but you don't get news report on the thousands of Muslim soldiers that are carrying out their orders for their country. In your eyes they are no different than the extremist. So you might not racist, I will give you that, but if you aren't, then you are fascist.

Don't dish on rocket surgery- it is just as lucrative as being a pothead neo-con.
Fascist! Neocon!

Heavens to mergatroid!

LOL! Any more Progressive buzz-words you want throw out there?

You obviously have not been paying attention.

You should look at the Fascist initiatives in Italy during the 1930's.

Very
Progressive.

So Progressive, that President Franklin Roosevelt made many of them his own in the New Deal.

I have already mentioned that the Catholic Church, which I am no fan of by the way, is addressing the abuse situation.

Are you aware that some Muslims are lily-white?

Probably not. That would deflate your whole image of Johnnyorganic and his alleged non-white bias.
 

HomeGrown&Smoked

Active Member
Fascist! Neocon!

Heavens to mergatroid!

LOL! Any more Progressive buzz-words you want throw out there?

You obviously have not been paying attention.

You should look at the Fascist initiatives in Italy during the 1930's and 1940's.

Very
Progressive.

So Progressive, that President Franklin Roosevelt made many of them his own in the New Deal.

I have already mentioned that the Catholic Church, which I am no fan of by the way, is addressing the abuse situation.

Are you aware that some Muslims are lily-white?

Probably not. That would deflate your whole image of Johnnyorganic and his alleged non-white bias.
Amazing how you go straight to attacking the messenger and not the message. Would you like a second attempt to address my question about Muslims in the military, or will you try to convince me you aren't what you are again?
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
Amazing how you go straight to attacking the messenger and not the message. Would you like a second attempt to address my question about Muslims in the military, or will you try to convince me you aren't what you are again?
You think that was an attack?

LOL!

Are you referring to those wonderful, peace loving Muslims like Sgt. Asan Akbar of the 101st Airborne Division?

In Kuwait, he rolled a grenade into each of three tents of fellow soldiers who were sleeping.

He fragged a captain and a major and injured 14 others.

Who knows why they enlist? Three hots and a cot, maybe? Military training? Money for college?

Like I said, who knows?
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
So far throughout this afternoon and evening HomeGrown&Smoked has accused me of being a Klansman, a racist, a Fascist and a Neo-con.

With absolutely no evidence, by the by. Just hateful labels he heard somewhere, I am sure.

But I suppose to him none of those baseless accusations would constitute an attack. :roll:

Amazing how the addled mind of a garden variety Proggie works. :twisted:

He should talk to the last RIU member who accused me of affiliating with the KKK. He knows a little something about being under attack by the likes of Johnnyorganic.
 

HomeGrown&Smoked

Active Member
You think that was an attack?

LOL!

Are you referring to those wonderful, peace loving Muslims like Sgt. Asan Akbar of the 101st Airborne Division?

In Kuwait, he rolled a grenade into each of three tents of fellow soldiers who were sleeping.

He fragged a captain and a major and injured 14 others.

Who knows why they enlist? Three hots and a cot, maybe? Military training? Money for college?

Like I said, who knows?
I seem to remember hearing about the same thing happening in Vietnam with Christian soldiers- which brings me to my point: the actions of one doesn't reflect the actions of the group as a whole. In my post I even mentioned this, so you either skimmed over it or ignored it- there have been news reports of this happening, but what isn't reported, and what you have yet to comment on, are the Muslims in the armed forces that are fighting against other Muslims. The reason I have such hard feelings for you is that you will refuse to comment on exceptions to your rule that go to show your rule is shit. I understand what you are all amped up for- extremism is dangerous and deadly. But by paiting another group with such a broad brush that you start sounding like an extremist. I am with you on the premise that those accountable for actions against the US have to answer for what they have done. But to assume that everyone else that is Muslim has the same views as the extremist is closed-minded and counter-productive.

And if you want to add another accusation, here is one for you: troll.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
I seem to remember hearing about the same thing happening in Vietnam with Christian soldiers- which brings me to my point: the actions of one doesn't reflect the actions of the group as a whole. In my post I even mentioned this, so you either skimmed over it or ignored it- there have been news reports of this happening, but what isn't reported, and what you have yet to comment on, are the Muslims in the armed forces that are fighting against other Muslims. The reason I have such hard feelings for you is that you will refuse to comment on exceptions to your rule that go to show your rule is shit. I understand what you are all amped up for- extremism is dangerous and deadly. But by paiting another group with such a broad brush that you start sounding like an extremist. I am with you on the premise that those accountable for actions against the US have to answer for what they have done. But to assume that everyone else that is Muslim has the same views as the extremist is closed-minded and counter-productive.

And if you want to add another accusation, here is one for you: troll.
Muslims are extremely reluctant to criticize practitioners of their own religion. And some Muslims will kill an infidel for criticizing Islam.

Are you happy now?

I'm not the thought police. I have no idea why a Muslim would enlist.

Didn't I mention that already?

That's right. I did.

Okay, dude you just progressed from annoying turd to comic relief.

Now, to you at least, I'm a troll.

A troll.

I've been a member of this forum, in good standing, since 2007. Yet to your dumb ass, I'm a troll.

Jesus, Joseph, and Mary!

Are there any other negative buzz-words you wish to employ?

You my friend, are a laugh riot!
 

HomeGrown&Smoked

Active Member
Muslims are extremely reluctant to criticize practitioners of their own religion. And some Muslims will kill an infidel for criticizing Islam.

Are you happy now?

I'm not the thought police. I have no idea why a Muslim would enlist.

Didn't I mention that already?

That's right. I did.

Okay, dude you just progressed from annoying turd to comic relief.

Now, to you at least, I'm a troll.

A troll.

I've been a member of this forum, in good standing, since 2007. Yet to your dumb ass, I'm a troll.

Jesus, Joseph, and Mary!

Are there any other negative buzz-words you wish to employ?

You my friend, are a laugh riot!

I get it. You are just disregarding the sacrifices they are willing to make- you may realize they disprove your argument, but you "fix" that by saying you have no idea why they joined. If that's your cup of tea, then so be it. I guess someone has to be their counterweight. One last question Johnny: Do you know any Muslims personally?
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
I get it. You are just disregarding the sacrifices they are willing to make- you may realize they disprove your argument, but you "fix" that by saying you have no idea why they joined. If that's your cup of tea, then so be it. I guess someone has to be their counterweight. One last question Johnny: Do you know any Muslims personally?
Since you seem to know everything, maybe you could explain why Muslims join the U.S. Military.

This ought to be good!

Have I known in the past, or do I currently know?

In the past? Yes.

Currently? No.

It does not matter because anecdotal evidence is useless.

You get nothing.

Nothing.
 

HomeGrown&Smoked

Active Member
Since you seem to know everything, maybe you could explain why Muslims join the U.S. Military.

This ought to be good!

Have I known in the past, or do I currently know?

In the past? Yes.

Currently? No.

It does not matter because anecdotal evidence is useless.

You get nothing.

Nothing.
It's the same reason any other kid would join the military- opportunity and a sense of duty. They buy into the protection of the country line and feel they should contribute to the country. Granted, values can be corrupted, but the history of young men in the military turning on the country they once protected is a long and storied one. It has not been limited to Muslims, and has been going on since before this county's sovereignty had been firmly established. I asked about your exposure to Muslims because, more often than not, limited exposure can lead to false expectations, especially if you are getting exposure on the news. First hand exposure will show you they are regular people- worrying more about paying the mortgage and car payment and not so much about starting a holy war. Sensationalism in the news exists on all networks, and on a hot button issue with terrorism/religion it has been exploited to the point that otherwise rational people develop an irrational hate to an entire group of people because of the horrible acts of a very small group. You are intelligent, but are closing your eyes to the fact that Muslims in America are hated more by extremists than we are, and that goes more so for the Muslim troops. Hate breeds more hate, so at some point we need to break the cycle.
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
And celebration.

Let's not forget that shall we?

Condemnation across the board? Hardly.
we already established theres a fucked up part of islam hence the highly photogenic images of celebrations that work so well on the bigoted news channels spreading fear.

as to the rest of the 1.5billion muslims yeah they do speak out against it. i would provide links but they're far too numerous so

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=muslim+condemnation+of+terrorism

what board are you talking about? i never hear condemnation. i see lots of parades when shit happens like the towers going down. or when some screwball wants to burn a koran, threatening death, fatwas, or stonings.

face it, mainstream muslims are okay with things like honor killings and the like. they are part of the laws of muslim countries. along with public beheadings, discrimination against women, gays, jews.....pretty much everything NOT muslim.

btw, tell muhammad to suck my balls.

then you arent looking in the right places or where you get your news from is highly bigoted and likes making their money from scaring americans...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=muslim+condemnation+of+terrorism
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
jeff, saying that mainstream muslims are ok with honor killings is bullshit.

the majority of muslims live in moderate comunities. the only problem is that moderate comunities don't get media hype. you never see a headline that reads: 1, 000 MUSLIMS IN BAGHDAD RALLY AGAINST TERRORISM. not because it doesn't happen, it does. it just doesn't get the ratings that: 2 MUSLIMS ATTEMPT TO BLOW UP A BUS STATION.

it also happens in, wait for it, Iran. yep. but you only hear Netanyahu saying that all iranians wish to sink israel into the sea...... . *yawn......
 

jeff f

New Member
jeff, saying that mainstream muslims are ok with honor killings is bullshit.

the majority of muslims live in moderate comunities. the only problem is that moderate comunities don't get media hype. you never see a headline that reads: 1, 000 MUSLIMS IN BAGHDAD RALLY AGAINST TERRORISM. not because it doesn't happen, it does. it just doesn't get the ratings that: 2 MUSLIMS ATTEMPT TO BLOW UP A BUS STATION.

it also happens in, wait for it, Iran. yep. but you only hear Netanyahu saying that all iranians wish to sink israel into the sea...... . *yawn......
nice try but total bullshit.

punch in chop chop square and read up. standing room only at these things, and your antisemetic comment about iran? nope, the PRESIDENT OF THE FUCKING COUNTRY SAID IT. YOU KNOW, THE ONE WITH ALL THE ARMY AND BOMBS AND WMD AND WANTS TO BUILD NUKE MISSILES. YES, THAT FUCKING ASSHOLE. you are half retarted for even trying that one.

you see how dishonest you are. you just posted pure fucking bullshit. -rep
 

jeff f

New Member
we already established theres a fucked up part of islam hence the highly photogenic images of celebrations that work so well on the bigoted news channels spreading fear.

as to the rest of the 1.5billion muslims yeah they do speak out against it. i would provide links but they're far too numerous so

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=muslim+condemnation+of+terrorism




then you arent looking in the right places or where you get your news from is highly bigoted and likes making their money from scaring americans...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=muslim+condemnation+of+terrorism

more bullshit. chop chop square my man chop chop. in every major city in every muslim country. tell me a single muslim country that ALLOWS their women to uncover their face. then tell me what percentage of girls are ALLOWED to get an education. tell me one major muslim country that sodomy, men against boys, isnt common and accepted practice. they are fucking savages. the ones that live here and elsewhere in civilized countries are mostly moderate. muslim countries....savages.

so stop telling something that you dont have a clue about.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
I liked this...
One good copy & paste deserves a copy & paste as a rebuttal.

It would appear that the New York Times's Nicholas Kristof read our column Thursday on "Islamic affirmative action," thought the concept might be unclear to some people, and decided to offer himself up as an example. If we had wanted to satirize the attitude, we could hardly have done better than his column in yesterday's Times titled "Message to Muslims: I'm Sorry."
Here's how it begins:
Many Americans have suggested that more moderate Muslims should stand up to extremists, speak out for tolerance, and apologize for sins committed by their brethren.​
That's reasonable advice, and as a moderate myself, I'm going to take it. (Throat clearing.) I hereby apologize to Muslims for the wave of bigotry and simple nuttiness that has lately been directed at you. The venom on the airwaves, equating Muslims with terrorists, should embarrass us more than you. Muslims are one of the last minorities in the United States that it is still possible to demean openly, and I apologize for the slurs.​
Kristof's central example of "the wave of bigotry and simple nuttiness" is the wave of reader complaints against the Portland (Maine) Press Herald over a Sept. 11 human-interest story on local Muslims celebrating Eid, the end of Ramadan, which led to a groveling apology from the paper's editor-publisher.

As we noted Thursday, there is no reason to think that the complaining readers were bigots or nuts. The worst that can be said about them is that they were a bit ignorant: They mistook a coincidence of timing for Islamic affirmative action. (This misunderstanding might have been avoided if the Press Herald's Eid story had explained the workings of the Islamic calendar and this coincidence with Sept. 11.)

Kristof draws a false and offensive equivalence between Islamic extremists and American "extremists." The latter, when something in the newspaper offends them, complain in a "courteous and polite" fashion, according to the Portland editor. The former, as in the case of cartoonist Molly Norris, issue religious edicts threatening death. (President Obama, champion of the First Amendment for Muslims, remains conspicuously silent about Norris's plight.)

We agree with Kristof that the Portland publisher's apology was a pathetic overreaction. But no one is in hiding as a result of the complaining Mainers--not the publisher, not the reporter who wrote the story, not the Muslim leader who was profiled in the Sept. 11 piece and "said that as an American Muslim, he has a sense of belonging that eclipses the hostility of the Rev. Terry Jones, the pastor in Florida who threatened to burn copies of the Quran," according to the Press Herald.

The important thing to understand here is that Islamic affirmative action only incidentally concerns Islam or Muslims. It is really about the moral exhibitionism of liberal elitists like Kristof, who love trumpeting their enlightenment and open-mindedness and sneering at the sensibilities of ordinary Americans. It never occurs to them that in doing so, it is they who are acting like bigots.

Like moral idiots, too. Consider this passage from Kristof's column:
Radicals tend to empower radicals, creating a gulf of mutual misunderstanding and anger. Many Americans believe that Osama bin Laden is representative of Muslims, and many Afghans believe that the Rev. Terry Jones (who talked about burning Korans) is representative of Christians.​
How balanced, how even-handed. Kristof condemns extremists on both sides! Except that "their" extremist is a mass murderer, while "ours" merely talked about engaging in offensive symbolic speech. Kristof doesn't note that Jones's Koran-burning plan was condemned by almost all Americans, or that whatever harm it did could have been ameliorated had the media--including Kristof's paper--refrained from publicizing it.

In another attempt at balance, Kristof acknowledges a string of Islamic outrages: "theocratic mullahs oppressing people in Iran; girls kept out of school in Afghanistan in the name of religion; girls subjected to genital mutilation in Africa in the name of Islam; warlords in Yemen and Sudan who wield AK-47s and claim to be doing God's bidding." He does not list any comparable actions by American "extremists," because there aren't any.

Kristof concludes:
But I've also seen the exact opposite: Muslim aid workers in Afghanistan who risk their lives to educate girls; a Pakistani imam who shelters rape victims; Muslim leaders who campaign against female genital mutilation and note that it is not really an Islamic practice; Pakistani Muslims who stand up for oppressed Christians and Hindus; and above all, the innumerable Muslim aid workers in Congo, Darfur, Bangladesh and so many other parts of the world who are inspired by the Koran to risk their lives to help others. Those Muslims have helped keep me alive, and they set a standard of compassion, peacefulness and altruism that we should all emulate.​
I'm sickened when I hear such gentle souls lumped in with Qaeda terrorists, and when I hear the faith they hold sacred excoriated and mocked. To them and to others smeared, I apologize.​
Fair enough. But what about gentle American souls--the kind of people who take offense at the idea of building a fancy "Islamic center" adjacent to the site of an Islamic supremacist atrocity, or who complain politely to a newspaper that offends their sensitivities? In slandering them as bigots, nuts and extremists, Kristof lumps them in with al Qaeda. He owes Americans, not Muslims, an apology.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703989304575503712157394190.html#printMode
 
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