Voting Against Prop 19 means :

[Matt Rize]

Again: We deserve the option to legitimize. We are not criminals (well, some of us, many actually are living highly illegal lifestyles and are hiding under 215 and 420 as fake co-ops.).

Most Cali Cannabis will go where it has always gone...to the black market and out of Cali. Big business can't take part in that market, and the price will stay the same for the majority of current growers. Let's not pretend that Cali herb stays in Cali. The dispensary's demand pales in comparison to rest of the country's demand, and they sure love that Cali ganja in the other states .

What is going to be effed up, as needofweed brings up, is the commercial production of Cannabis in Cali by nefarious corporations. Well, that 'bomba clat' Cannabis will be stuck in Cali, and many of us will not buy it. A strong movement for local organic small farmed Cannabis, from within the Californian Cannabis community, is what we need. Not to stop this tax/regulate proposition. Sure, poor people will buy Phillip Morris's pre-rolled joints because they will be cheap in comparison to some local organics. But most everyone who smokes herb wants to smoke high grade, even those who buy from the lower quality selections at dispensaries.

Yes, the wording sucks in 19. The Jack H initiative is more of something I can fully support. But the 2012 Jack H initiative has about zero chance, so let's work with what we've got. 19 was written to pass this year. Not in two years, or in ten. NOW. Let's lead the way. Of course 19 sucks on the ground here in California, but what about the rest of the world? Are we that selfish? Big Business is a can of worms, but we will set the stage for the rest of the world to consider steps in the right direction. I hate to admit it, but big business has a right to exist, even in the canna-world, unfortunately. I know for a fact that small farmed products will always fetch top dollar and be in high demand. Phillip morris will never be able to do what I do. NEVER.

So for the poor people, the one's who can't buy a 215 rec, pass this initiative.
Or do it for the international headlines "California Legalized Pot". And the millions of people who have new ideas planted in their heads when they hear an American state legalized ganja (even though we just taxed and regulated it).

 

[Matt Rize]

How do you not understand that there are large grows all over California now and have been for 40 years? A few large grows doesn't put all the small growers out of business. The bud market in Cali is huge.

If large grows were going to put all the small growers out of business that would have already happened. Are you really so ignorant to what is going on that you don't think there are large warehouse/greenhouse grows all over California right now?

YES. The boutique market will never go away. Snoop will alway want the very best in the world, same with the rest of the canna-nation. Look at the success of local farmer's markets here in Cali. It is all about quality, and you can charge whatever you want. That is our future.

 

[Matt Rize]

For those who believe that prop 19 will limit their ability to provide medicine for themselves/loved ones: You have a valid concern. The wording is so poor in this proposition that we do not really know how that will play out, and there will most likely be different taxes/regulations depending on where you live in Cali. But if you have a solid doctor's rec, yeah Medicann is BS, I mean your actual physician, then you will have no worries. They got you covered under 215/420. 19 does not erase the personal rec you get from your doctor for you and your condition.

But no matter what happens, this is a step in the right direction. No one can say for certain how this will affect us on the individual level, we each have our own stake in this. Do it for the world, they will think we "legalized it", even though that is the biggest pipe dream ever.

 

[redivider]

let's stop assuming the worst is going to happen. truth is the pot is grown indoors or out depending on the need of the grower.

saying that this is bad because it will put hydro stores out of business is bullshit. the hydro stores that adjust to fluctuations in demand will stay in business. those that do not may very well go out of business whether or not the law passes. good business management, not the law, will decide what stores make it.

it's the same line of reasoning that says it's bad because it puts small growers vs. large corporate grows. once again: the growers who better adjust their operation to the changing environment will succeed. those that don't will fail. it does not have anything to do with the size of the grow operation. those that fail are the ones growing weed in a wasteful manner, which in turn costs them more, bringing down their bottom line. competition will improve quality and the efficiency with which weed is grown.

assuming every single grower will stop buying bulbs to grow outside is a falsehood, an assumption not backed up by any facts. i know this because there's no case study on weed being decriminalized in such a fashion in the United States, or anywhere else in the world for that matter.

small growers will go out of business because of commercial growers, that's also an assumption not backed up by any facts.

the netherlands doesn't count because technically, growing weed is illegal in the Netherlands. buying and selling weed is tolerated. California is looking to completely legalize production, possesion, and consumption of marijuana. that is unprecedented.

if your a grower and you feel threatened because of this law. it's not the law. it's your poor business sense. only the fact that weed is an illegal product with limited supply has kept you in business. you know that as soon as it's legal, and all those business saavvyy entrepeneurs 'get on it' you'll be screwed. and you better believe entrepeneurs are 'getting on it'. i know about a dozen middle-aged, well to do men, who are ready to pump little over $1.5 million into this gold rush. and that's just the tip of the iceberg. get ready. it's going to be fun.

 

[Needofweed]

man if yor going to quote me quote me in my entirety,why you insist on dissecting my replies I dont know?

 

[Needofweed]

Growing marijuana outdoors is simple in California. The anticipated legalization of marijuana - Prop 19 on the November ballot - is already being greeted with proposals for pot factory farms. Now small growers cry foul; but what did they think would happen?

It Started with Medical marijuana

Getting legal Mary Jane is nothing new in the Golden State. The "American Medical marijuana Association" devotes itself to protecting patients' rights and access to prescribed dope. They also work to protect patients who choose to smoke medically sanctioned weed from far-reaching consequences. A case in point is the recent news that smoking medical marijuana led to the firing of a Wal-Mart employee.

Then Came a Push for the Blanket Legalization of marijuana

Championed in 2009 by San Francisco Democrat Tom Ammiano, the idea never really went away. As a result, California voters have the option of voting for the legalization of marijuana on the November ballot in the form of Proposition 19. Perfectly summarized by AOL News, Prop 19 proposes to make the private possession of weed (up to one ounce) legal for adults over 21 years of age. It would also turn dope into a taxable crop.

Enter the Pot Factory Farm

A savvy Oakland business entrepreneur is getting ready ahead of the anticipated legalization of marijuana. Seeking to carve out a sizable niche of the market, the L.A. Times reports that the owner of the already incorporated AgraMed proposes to take Mary Jane production into the big leagues.

The entrepreneur has outlined plans to "manufacture growing equipment, bake marijuana edibles in a 10,000-square-foot kitchen and use two football fields of space to grow about 58 pounds of marijuana every day." The irresistible hook in this scenario is the influx of ready cash and jobs: 371 workers would staff the plant, and a projected $1.5 million in annual tax payments would make it into Oakland's coffers.

Small Time Dope Growers are Outraged

Although in the past the electorate was sold on the idea of medical marijuana as a doctor-patient decision and on the mushrooming number of small-time dispensaries in Los Angeles as necessary for the good of needy patients, these same marijuana activists are now crying foul. It appears that it is no longer really just about the patient and ready availability of the drug, but also about cold, hard cash.

With pot factory farming likely to do to smalltime growers what Costco and Wal-Mart have done to mom-and-pop grocery stores and Ace Hardware, detractors - as outlined in the New York Times - ask why this proposal should be considered in the first place. Small grower representatives are asking to "bring these citizen farmers out of the shadows and into the light and give them a role in this new industry."

It is true that the mom-and-pop medical marijuana growers are the backbone of the legalization effort. It is also true that growing marijuana outdoors is a simple task in California, with little need for pot factory farming.

All that said, the activists who worked so tirelessly on the legalization of marijuana may have overlooked just one tiny fact surrounding the purple haze: Once dope becomes legal, it also becomes big business.



Did you really think it was about legalization??? It is about taxation and monopoly!

(Taken from GanjaAl)
​

 

[Needofweed]

And if you still think little growers wont go under well heres Allen St. Pierre the Executive Director NORML saying it himself

(skip to 2:30 in the video where he comes on) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGWSdrU31B0

 

[redivider]

the measure is supposed to be a cost savings/revenue generating move for the state. should weed be taxed? i don't know. but that's why weed may become legal, because it's gonna make the state money.

and life in america is about monopoly. it's not just weed, don't think weed is getting any preferential treatment. weed shouldn't get any preferential treatment, because it will be a legal product. and as such a market will develop.

 

[Needofweed]

not if I vote no and it doesnt pass

 

[Dan Kone]

YES. The boutique market will never go away. Snoop will alway want the very best in the world, same with the rest of the canna-nation. Look at the success of local farmer's markets here in Cali. It is all about quality, and you can charge whatever you want. That is our future.

The thing that makes bud different from things like beer is that the high end bud market makes up the majority of sales. The top selling buds at clubs are always the top shelfs. Sure, there are micro brews, but the bud market revolves around the small boutique grows. This has nothing to do with lack of mass produced cheap bud. That shit is everywhere and it always has been. It just doesn't sell as well. There is nothing about prop 19 that will change what type of bud people want to buy.

 

[Needofweed]

the measure is supposed to be a cost savings/revenue generating move for the state. should weed be taxed? i don't know. but that's why weed may become legal, because it's gonna make the state money.

and life in america is about monopoly. it's not just weed, don't think weed is getting any preferential treatment. weed shouldn't get any preferential treatment, because it will be a legal product. and as such a market will develop.

yeah it supposed to make the state 1.4 billion dollors a year but thats taxing todays maket price at an average of 300 dollors an oz.
but they say an oz. will drop to 30 dollors so thats a 90% drop in price witch means a 90% drop in proposed tax revanue so 1.4 billion realy means 140 million thats a 1,260,000,000 (One billion two hundered million) dollor down fall).Thats going to get my state out of a 9 billion dollor hole?Dont twist me up I do want legalization butnot the way prop 19 says it,Im not going to vote for it just cause it allows me to smoke mj. I do got standers and im not some pothead junky that will do anything just to get hi with government approval.You all can get as mad as you want but like I said before Ill see you at the polls.

 

[Needofweed]

The thing that makes bud different from things like beer is that the high end bud market makes up the majority of sales. The top selling buds at clubs are always the top shelfs. Sure, there are micro brews, but the bud market revolves around the small boutique grows. This has nothing to do with lack of mass produced cheap bud. That shit is everywhere and it always has been. It just doesn't sell as well. There is nothing about prop 19 that will change what type of bud people want to buy.

So you dont believe what Allen St. Pierre is saying in the video?
Cause he flatout says the mom&pop growers will go out of business.

 

[mistaphuck]

So you dont believe what Allen St. Pierre is saying in the video?
Cause he flatout says the mom&pop growers will go out of business.

mom&pop anything will always be in danger of going under. even if you got every mofo in cali to vote no it wouldn't make a difference

 

[redivider]

So you dont believe what Allen St. Pierre is saying in the video?
Cause he flatout says the mom&pop growers will go out of business.

is he an economist?? is he a business man? or is he an activist??

as much as I love NORML, a lot of times they should just stick to what they know, THE LAW. NORML also has trouble endorsing ideas that are not originated within it's ranks, or ideas it considers to be 'imperfect'. NORML is being this way with prop 19 because they can't take full credit for it.

what that man is saying is an ASSUMPTION. he cannot back it up with any EVIDENCE. it's what he thinks is going to happen.

i think i'm gonna fly if i jump out of a building. the facts say otherwise though.

could this law drive small growers out of business?? absolutely. but the growers that go out of business are the ones not doing it efficiently enough to compete in the market.

and if you vote no on Prop 19 your not stopping big business from having interest in the 30+ billion dollar marijuana trade. that's not gonna happen with so much money involved. you can forget about it.

if you vote no to stop big business, this is going to hurt:

MJ's illegal status in the US is partly lobbied by the alcohol, tobacco, and pharmaceutical industries. big pharma stands the most to loose, the numbers are a trade secret, but it's estimated that big pharma has spent around 200 million or so developing synthetic THC, or Marinol, under the assumption that the US will be stupid enough to keep MJ illegal, while selling it's active ingredient on shelves. this way the only, I REPEAT, ONLY source of LEGAL THC would be through big pharma.

so take that. you're voting no on prop 19 to stop big business. big pharma wants you to think that way. that way they, not you or other growers, can be the ONLY suppliers of legal THC.

IRONY!

 

[Needofweed]

Well I dont realy care for popping pill or eating mj brownies or icecream for that matter but I do love the way GDPurp and Hindkush tast when Im blowing a fats ass rip out of my lungs.

 

[Dan Kone]

So you dont believe what Allen St. Pierre is saying in the video?
Cause he flatout says the mom&pop growers will go out of business.

Then, no I don't believe him at all. It defies common sense to say that. If big grows put small growers out of business then how come they aren't out of business now? There is nothing new about large scale growing in California.

 

[Dan Kone]

i

MJ's illegal status in the US is partly lobbied by the alcohol, tobacco, and pharmaceutical industries. big pharma stands the most to loose,

Surprisingly, the group that has paid the most money to oppose legalization is none of the above. It's the prison guards union. Legalization = out of a job for them.

 

[Dan Kone]

so take that. you're voting no on prop 19 to stop big business. big pharma wants you to think that way. that way they, not you or other growers, can be the ONLY suppliers of legal THC.

IRONY!

Big pharma, tobacco, alcohol, prison guards, the DEA, the majority of police officers, and the logging industry all support prohibition because it's a cash cow for all of them. And people are willing to side with them because they are afraid of legal cannabis businesses.

Irony indeed.

 

[Matt Rize]

Well I dont realy care for popping pill or eating mj brownies or icecream for that matter but I do love the way GDPurp and Hindkush tast when Im blowing a fats ass rip out of my lungs.

That's pretty selfish bro. What about the people who do take Cannabis orally or as tincture. Open your mind to the other ways of medicating. In fact, the different forms of ingestion (smoke, vapor, baked edible, raw edible, tincture, transdermal oil, suppository) all have different affects that may help different needs.

Remember, big business outlawed Cannabis in the first place.

 

[Dan Kone]

That's pretty selfish bro. What about the people who do take Cannabis orally or as tincture. Open your mind to the other ways of medicating. In fact, the different forms of ingestion (smoke, vapor, baked edible, raw edible, tincture, transdermal oil, suppository) all have different affects that may help different needs.

Remember, big business outlawed Cannabis in the first place.

big business and profits are what is keeping it illegal now.

There really are worse things in the world than big cannabis businesses. I think we can all agree that big lumber corporations logging all those norcal redwoods are worse. How many of those tree's will be saved by prop 19 legalizing hemp production? A frequently used statistic is that you can make 4x as much paper from an acre of hemp than an acre of trees per year.

So every acre of bud grown you're saving 4 acres of natural California forest. Why isn't that part of the discussion when talking about all of this?

I guess it's hard to point to Richard Lee as an arch villain if he's 2 story 23 acre grow ends up saving over 150 acres of forest per year from logging. People look at every negative byproduct at prop 19. But there are some big positives too that aren't even being discussed.