Molasses NPK ratio?

[vivalaboss]

anyone tell me what the NPK ratio is on grandmas unsulphured molasses......could it actually cause some burn to leaves if used too often, sorta like nute burn...thanx for the info!!

 

[Spanishfly]

Molasses is nearly all sugar.

And no, it makes no difference to size of your buds - might attract a few bugs is all.

Another Old Wives´ Tale.

 

[Nullis]

What the heck is your problem, really? I only ask because it seems like every time somebody makes a thread or asks a specific question about molasses, you have to say "molasses is nearly all sugar"- which couldn't be further from the truth, and then "makes no difference to the size of your buds". Quite frankly, nobody who actually knows anything about molasses and it's proper use and applications even makes such a claim- largely being a result of your taking the ignorance of first time growers out of proportion. Oh yah, and because of some half-assed 'experiment' you performed.

Regardless, sugar is a high-energy food source which in nature plants would be donating to micro-organisms along with other substances via root exudates.

So, to actually answer the OP's question: it depends on the brand but typically something like 1-0-5. Use about a tablespoon per gallon of water throughout the grow, except for the last couple weeks. Molasses is high in nutrients such as magnesium and can contribute to a harsh finished product.

Molasses is about 55% sugar. The other 45% goes like this (per 100 grams, human % DV provided for reference):
Minerals

• Calcium ----- 205 mg --- 20%
• Iron -------- 4.7 mg --- 26%
• Magnesium --- 242 mg --- 61%
• Phosphorus -- 31 mg ---- 3%
• Potassium --- 1464 mg -- 42%
• Sodium ------ 37 mg ---- 2%
• Zinc -------- 0.3 mg --- 2%
• Copper ------ 0.5 mg --- 24%
• Manganese --- 1.5 mg --- 77%
• Selenium ---- 17.8 mcg - 25%

Vitamins

• Thiamin -------- > 0.0 mg -- 3%
• Niacin ------------- 0.9 mg -- 5%
• Vitamin B6 ------- 0.7 mg -- 34%
• Pantothenic Acid - 0.8 mg -- 8%
• Choline ---------- 13.3 mg - ~

Sugars (55.5 g)

• Sucrose 29403 mg
• Glucose 11919 mg
• Fructose 12791 mg

How many times do I have to post this for Spanishfly to quit spreading mis-information like "molasses is just sugar"? Does anybody read my posts or is it a comprehension problem?

 

[vivalaboss]

thanx alot nullis.... thats the kind of answer i appreciate getting on these sites....i've been usin it for a while, and couldnt remember what the ratio was....seems to be alot of misguided information on these sites, and its just like you said they give this information on half ass experiments they do....the ones i really love is the ones who when you ask a question like should i use tenfoil, they want to say "No what are you stupid never use tenfoil!!" then they dont want to give any advice on why not, or what you should use instead....If ur gonna post on these sites your point is to help and to give solid advice....anyways i could go all day about ass holes on these sites, but anyways thanx again nullis!!

 

[Goober617]

I would highly recomend molasses can't really say much for yield (but I used it on a badly stunted girl)
it did IMHO increase the POTency. Not sure of the NPK but I don't thinK you have to worry about nute burn with this,
however I think I might have heard About it causing lockout???(in high doses) Can anyone confirm this??
AnywAYs no doubt about it, I WILL use it again

 

[Nullis]

I don't know about it causing any 'lockout'. The only logical reason such a situation may occur has to do with the fact that molasses is acidic (like most nutrients), and so could lower soil pH, especially at high doses (which I wouldn't recommend). Soil needs to be properly amended to counter pH plummeting as a result of the [heavy] application of various acidic fertilizers typically applied. Most of us handle this with dolomite lime, crushed oyster or egg shells or other sources of calcium carbonate; other neutral amendments such as coco coir help, and certainly having a thriving living soil helps. Soil biota doesn't very much care for soil which is acidic and prefers to be in the neutral-alkaline range.

Nutrient burn shouldn't be a concern, but I still wouldn't recommend using copious amounts of molasses. I've heard of problems relating to it causing soil to become 'sticky', which I have yet to witness, and the potential for the molasses to attract insects-particularly ants. Again these are reasons not to use copious amounts of the stuff. You'll often find molasses or beet molasses listed as an ingredient on various liquid organic fertilizers.

As for Spanishfly, don't get me wrong; I am sure he is a perfectly capable grower and has his style tuned to exactly the way he desires. It is just that like many humans he is prone to ill-informed associations, jumping to out-of-context conclusions and being ever so slightly presumptuous. He performs this half-ass 'experiment' with molasses; presuming that the manner/purpose for which he heard some naive growers were apparently using it (for larger buds) was not only the 'proper' mechanism, but also the singular reason for its incorporation. As such, he anticipated only the results purported by the misinformed and considered no other purpose for molasses. Beyond this, he didn't even elaborate in any sufficient detail the environment these plants (which were not clones) were being grown in, whether the molasses was provided throughout the entire life of those plants or just during the last few weeks, what exactly the medium consisted of, or whatever else was provided. I seriously doubt he did any solid research on what molasses really consists of, or how it actually pertains to indoor gardening and fertilization. He really seems to think it is just 'sugar' and I wouldn't be surprised if all he is actually concerned about is allowing himself to feel some sense of superiority over everybody else because he 'proved' that molasses is "another old wives tale".

OP asked a very simple, specific question and made no claims what-so-ever. Spanishfly's response is testimony to his pompous attitude and it is ridiculous. As far as I am concerned the whole thing is just about tantamount to somebody raving about how they used CalMag and it is just another old wives tale because their buds aren't any bigger.

 

[vivalaboss]

thanx alot for the info yall...thats exactly what i needed to learn and hear....

 

[Smucker G]

What the heck is your problem, really? I only ask because it seems like every time somebody makes a thread or asks a specific question about molasses, you have to say "molasses is nearly all sugar"- which couldn't be further from the truth, and then "makes no difference to the size of your buds". Quite frankly, nobody who actually knows anything about molasses and it's proper use and applications even makes such a claim- largely being a result of your taking the ignorance of first time growers out of proportion. Oh yah, and because of some half-assed 'experiment' you performed.

Regardless, sugar is a high-energy food source which in nature plants would be donating to micro-organisms along with other substances via root exudates.

So, to actually answer the OP's question: it depends on the brand but typically something like 1-0-5. Use about a tablespoon per gallon of water throughout the grow, except for the last couple weeks. Molasses is high in nutrients such as magnesium and can contribute to a harsh finished product.

Molasses is about 55% sugar. The other 45% goes like this (per 100 grams, human % DV provided for reference):
Minerals

• Calcium ----- 205 mg --- 20%
• Iron -------- 4.7 mg --- 26%
• Magnesium --- 242 mg --- 61%
• Phosphorus -- 31 mg ---- 3%
• Potassium --- 1464 mg -- 42%
• Sodium ------ 37 mg ---- 2%
• Zinc -------- 0.3 mg --- 2%
• Copper ------ 0.5 mg --- 24%
• Manganese --- 1.5 mg --- 77%
• Selenium ---- 17.8 mcg - 25%

Vitamins

• Thiamin -------- > 0.0 mg -- 3%
• Niacin ------------- 0.9 mg -- 5%
• Vitamin B6 ------- 0.7 mg -- 34%
• Pantothenic Acid - 0.8 mg -- 8%
• Choline ---------- 13.3 mg - ~

Sugars (55.5 g)

• Sucrose 29403 mg
• Glucose 11919 mg
• Fructose 12791 mg

How many times do I have to post this for Spanishfly to quit spreading mis-information like "molasses is just sugar"? Does anybody read my posts or is it a comprehension problem?

+rep great post thanks

 

[kingofqueen]

I use molassas soley for calcium magnesium supplement.And feed the microlife which is how to get higher yields in organics.

 

[jemstone]

Nullis,
Thanks for the actual proof of any molasses experiment. Yeah man I get what you mean I "experiment" too but if it ain't got the hard data than it ain't no experiment =)

I use Humboldt Nutrients Humboldt Honey ES and like it a lot. It is so yummy smelling! One of these days I might even take a bath in it or try to brew like a beer.

An "experiment" of my own concludes that warming a pot of water to about tea temperature, adding the HH or molasses to the water, stir with wooden spoon 5 minutes then add to reservoir; helps loosen the molasses molecules, aids in an even mixture and breaks down better. I have noticed that there is more foaming then if I add HH/molasses without preheating. All nutrients are mixed at least 24 hours before feeding, an eco plus 7 with five air stones aerate the mix. I will be adding a ecoplus 5 with a custom forced air hose soon. Also another "experiment" shows that with or without warming HH/molasses just recirculating the pump into the reservoir while mixing aids the foaming action.

 

[cavorkybuds420]

Molassas isgreat shit. Its not sugar but the biproduct from sugar cane or beet's not sure wich one or both. I use for maeniesium and calcium and to bust up carbohydrates which the plants use as energy and any in excess get stored for when its needed. Which explains why my buds are currently swelling even with a good flush started. Dont be fooled be these suposed veterans.

 

[Unnk]

Molassas isgreat shit. Its not sugar but the biproduct from sugar cane or beet's not sure wich one or both. I use for maeniesium and calcium and to bust up carbohydrates which the plants use as energy and any in excess get stored for when its needed. Which explains why my buds are currently swelling even with a good flush started. Dont be fooled be these suposed veterans.

Yep its all about ATP and the krebbs cycle i would use bud candy with your molasses or sucanat the citric acid helps in the break down of the carbs

 

[woodsmaneh!]

[FONT=&quot]The following is an article I found on molasses and its use with plants. Thought others might find it useful, I did.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Molasses and Plant Carbohydrates - b.com]Texas Plant & Soil Lab Report [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Molasses and Plant Carbohydrates”[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Sugars relating to plant functions for maximum economic production.
Texas Plant & Soil Lab, Inc., [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Texas Plant & Soil Lab (Home)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Environmental factors that affect when and how much sugar to use:
a. How much nitrate is in the soil, and plant sap (petiole test).
b. Soil moisture conditions.
c. Sunlight intensity.
d. Temperature.
e. Wind
f. Fruiting stage / load
g. Growth / vigor [shade lower leaves]

The right amount at the right time can improve fruiting and produce normal
plant growth with less attraction for disease and insects.

Needed for healthy plants - fruit production - plant development &
maturity.
Roots take nutrients from the soil and transport them up the stalk thru the
petiole (stem) to the leaves where the sunlight aids the production of
photosynthates (sugars are not the ONLY product of photosynthesis)
carbohydrates (C, H & O), principally glucose (C6H12O6) and then other sugars and photosynthates are formed.

Plant Sugars and other photosynthates are first translocated (boron is essential to the translocation) to a fruiting site. If fruit is not available, the sugars, along with excess nitrates, spur the rapid vegetative growth of the plant at the expense of creating fruiting bodies (first sink) for the storage of the sugars.

Once the proper balance of environmental factors (heat units, light intensity, soil moisture, nutrient balance, etc) are met, the fruiting buds form and then fruit formation gets the first crack at the sugar supply.

Any excess sugars are then translocated to the number two sink, (growing terminals,) to speed their growth. The left-over sugars, etc. then go to the number 3 sink, (the roots,) to aid their growth. Here the new root hairs take up nutrients to help continue the cycle of sugar and other photosynthate production, fruiting, growth of terminals and roots.

ADDED SUGARS CAN AID THE PLANT IN SEVERAL WAYS:
- MOLASSES is probably the best outside source of many sugars, such as table sugar, corn syrup and several more complex sugars such as polysaccharides found in humus products.
- Sugar can be added to the soil in irrigation water, drip & pivot being the most effective.

In the soil it can:

- Feed microbes to stimulate the conversion of nitrates to the more efficient NH2 form of N to synthesize protein more directly by the plants.

- The roots can directly absorb some of the sugars into the sap stream to supplement the leaf supply to fruit where it is most needed, and ALSO directly feed the roots for continued productive growth.

- This ADDED sugar can also help initiate fruiting buds in a steady-slow
fashion while maintaining normal growth.

-EXCESSIVE amounts of ADDED SUGARS applied foliarly can shock the
plant resulting in shortened growth internodes, increased leaf maturity & initiation of excess fruiting sites. This can be a short term effect lasting only a few days.

Pollination, soil moisture, nutrient balance and sufficiency as well as adequate light for photosynthate production decide how much of the induced fruit can mature. [/FONT]

 

[Nocturnal1]

For the price, I'll continue to use it. It's not hurting the plants so what the heck...

 

[homebrewer]

Molasses is 75% carbohydrate with not enough of anything in it to do your plants any harm (except the sugars when used excessively). While nullis' post seems informative, I don't think you guys are reading it correctly.

The numbers below are from a 100 gram sample or 5 tablespoons. That doesn't mean a whole lot because the percentages in red would be the same regardless of weight.

• Calcium ----- 205 mg .205%
  
• Iron -------- 4.7 mg .0047%
  Magnesium --- 242 mg .242%
  
• Phosphorus -- 31 mg .031%
  
• Potassium --- 1464 mg 1.464%
  
• Sodium ------ 37 mg .037%
  
• Zinc -------- 0.3 mg .0003%
  
• Copper ------ 0.5 mg .0005%
  
• Manganese --- 1.5 mg .0015%
  
• Selenium ---- 17.8 mcg .0178%

Personally, if I saw a product on the shelves with those percentages listed in red, I'd pass for something more useful. And keep in mind that the numbers in black are 5 times the amount of molasses that anyone suggests using per gallon. Hey, at least it's feeding the microbes .

 

[jemstone]

its all about the microbes!

 

[Spanishfly]

What the heck is your problem, really? I only ask because it seems like every time somebody makes a thread or asks a specific question about molasses, you have to say "molasses is nearly all sugar"- which couldn't be further from the truth, and then "makes no difference to the size of your buds". Quite frankly, nobody who actually knows anything about molasses and it's proper use and applications even makes such a claim- largely being a result of your taking the ignorance of first time growers out of proportion. Oh yah, and because of some half-assed 'experiment' you performed.

Regardless, sugar is a high-energy food source which in nature plants would be donating to micro-organisms along with other substances via root exudates.

So, to actually answer the OP's question: it depends on the brand but typically something like 1-0-5. Use about a tablespoon per gallon of water throughout the grow, except for the last couple weeks. Molasses is high in nutrients such as magnesium and can contribute to a harsh finished product.

Molasses is about 55% sugar. The other 45% goes like this (per 100 grams, human % DV provided for reference):















Minerals

• Calcium ----- 205 mg --- 20%
• Iron -------- 4.7 mg --- 26%
• Magnesium --- 242 mg --- 61%
• Phosphorus -- 31 mg ---- 3%
• Potassium --- 1464 mg -- 42%
• Sodium ------ 37 mg ---- 2%
• Zinc -------- 0.3 mg --- 2%
• Copper ------ 0.5 mg --- 24%
• Manganese --- 1.5 mg --- 77%
• Selenium ---- 17.8 mcg - 25%

Vitamins

• Thiamin -------- > 0.0 mg -- 3%
• Niacin ------------- 0.9 mg -- 5%
• Vitamin B6 ------- 0.7 mg -- 34%
• Pantothenic Acid - 0.8 mg -- 8%
• Choline ---------- 13.3 mg - ~

Sugars (55.5 g)

• Sucrose 29403 mg
• Glucose 11919 mg
• Fructose 12791 mg

How many times do I have to post this for Spanishfly to quit spreading mis-information like "molasses is just sugar"? Does anybody read my posts or is it a comprehension problem?

Your unattributed source is not the easiest to follow but it appears your sums just do not add up!!!

All the weights of your vitamins and minerals add up to 2002 mg

All the sugars add up to 54,113 mg.

So according to YOUR figures above molasses is (54113/56115) X 100 = 96.4 % sugar.

So when I said molasses is nearly all sugar I was TOTALLY correct.

If you want to give your plants minerals buy some decent ferts. If you want to feed them useless SUGAR give molasses.

In answer to your question Nullis, people do read your posts but you are posting garbage.

Homebrewer knows what he is talking about and his post two above gives the authoritative percentages, showing what a tiny amount of vitamins and minerals is actually present.

As I have stated I find feeding plants sugar makes NO DIFFERENCE whatever to bud size - good soil, nutes and light is the key to a good yield, in my not inconsiderable experience.

 

[Unnk]

If you want to feed them useless SUGAR give molasses.

not useless if you rely on a ammended soil and a healthy microbe colony so again keep saying sugars which are carbs are useless just because you dont use a ammended soil. The molasses or sucanat also this high BRIX content also helps the levels of brix with in your plant so if you say sugars are useless i dont get you becuase they are certainly usefull to me yay for sucanat

 

[Spanishfly]

The molasses or sucanat also this high BRIX content also helps the levels of brix

¿Qué? Wish I could understand what you are saying. BRIX being some acronym that you have not explained maybe??

Sorry, remain unconvinced about this - I have heard so much about how wonderful molasses is the best thing since sliced bread - so I had to give it a go - some of my plants got molasses, some didn´t, all other factors remaining the same.

Was totally disappointed to find no difference between the two groups whatever.

Lots of people, just cannot accept that their beloved molasses non coitus laborum, however. And are really upset that it appears to be a complete waste of time, IMHO.

Maybe they would like to post a pic of their grow showing the remarkable results they have achieved with molasses - if they have actually ever done a grow that is.

 

[homebrewer]

not useless if you rely on a ammended soil and a healthy microbe colony so again keep saying sugars which are carbs are useless just because you dont use a ammended soil. The molasses or sucanat also this high BRIX content also helps the levels of brix with in your plant so if you say sugars are useless i dont get you becuase they are certainly usefull to me yay for sucanat

Plants have a limited ability to pull up sugars from the soil, probably because they make their own during photosynthesis. While I use a hydrometer instead of a refractometer, I really doubt that heightened BRIX levels in the plant (if any) are more beneficial than what the sugars can do for the microbes. Plants already make their own sugars. Seeing how molasses has trace amounts of stuff plants can actually use, feed your soil the cheapest saccharides you can find and use a better food source.