Molasses NPK ratio?

Unnk

Well-Known Member
¿Qué? Wish I could understand what you are saying. BRIX being some acronym that you have not explained maybe??

Sorry, remain unconvinced about this - I have heard so much about how wonderful molasses is the best thing since sliced bread - so I had to give it a go - some of my plants got molasses, some didn´t, all other factors remaining the same.

Was totally disappointed to find no difference between the two groups whatever.

Lots of people, just cannot accept that their beloved molasses non coitus laborum, however. And are really upset that it appears to be a complete waste of time, IMHO.

Maybe they would like to post a pic of their grow showing the remarkable results they have achieved with molasses - if they have actually ever done a grow that is.
http://www.highbrixgardens.com/what-is-brix.html
http://www.themeterman.com.au/interview.php

These should explain what i mean by Brix content in plants but as for a general definition.

Brix is the amount of sugar in a aqueous solution. One degree of brix could be correlated to 1 gram of Sucrose per 100 grams of solution.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
i use Sucanat
I use both sucanant and molasses depending on the application. molasses in my AACT, sucanant with normal feedings. And very little of both as they do not feed the plant, but the benny bacteria in the rhizosphere. "A spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down"


correction: the sugars may feed to plant directly, thx nullis
 

Unnk

Well-Known Member
did you just refuse to read the previous meant no offence by it but a high brix content is actually VERY beneficial for a plant
 

Unnk

Well-Known Member
i mean i can give you multiple links also agreeing with my thought process low brix count leads to a over all low plant health
 

Unnk

Well-Known Member
* BRIX is a measure of the percent solids (TSS) in a given weight of plant juice---nothing more---and nothing less.
* BRIX is often expressed another way: BRIX equals the percentage of sucrose. However, if you study the contents of this book, you will soon enough understand that the "sucrose" can vary widely. For, indeed, the BRIX is actually a summation of the pounds of sucrose, fructose, vitamins, minerals, amino acids, proteins, hormones, and other solids in one hundred pounds of any particular plant juice.
* BRIX varies directly with plant QUALITY. For instance, a poor, sour tasting grape from worn out land can test 8 or less BRIX. On the other hand, a full flavored, delicious grape, grown on rich, fertile soil can test 24 or better BRIX.
 

Nullis

Moderator
First of all, I am definitely not a mathematician. While 100 grams of molasses does contain roughly 75 grams of carbohydrates, it has 55.5 grams of sugar and the mineral content by weight is still significant. I chose the 100 gram serving for convenience and because most of the vitamins are present in micrograms (the point is that they are there). Here is the source which I provided on the other occasions I have posted this information, and you can go choose a tablespoon or ounce as you desire to see the content per such a sample.

Still, nutrient content of molasses varies considerably depending on the brand. Plantation Blackstrap molasses contains significantly more calcium (1%), iron (0.018%) and vitamin A than the sample from Nutrition Data. But even assuming those values; the amounts by weight of potassium, magnesium, and iron are quite significant. Especially considering that you can provide the tablespoon (or less) of molasses per gallon just about every watering. Remember, these are trace minerals we're talking about here- they aren't supposed to be there in copious amounts.
Then when you consider the amount of potassium, remember that on fertilizer labels it is expressed as the K20 equivalent and not the actual percentage of potash. So, really 1.77 % K20, which does confuse me as various sources list the NPK of molasses as 1-0-4+. Even so, by weight that is 293 mg of potassium. The Earth Juice products I use only actually contain 165.2 mg of potash. (20 Grams of a 0-3-1 or 2-1-1 = 200mg K20 x .826 = 165.2 mg).

Spanishfly, the sums there don't add up because that isn't the full composition of molasses in terms of chemical components. I see how that could be misleading, but the point is to illustrate that of a 100 gram sample, 55.5 of those grams are actually sugar. Out of a 20 gram sample, 11 grams is 'sugar', 4.4 grams is water, .7 grams ash, and much of what remains is the mineral content, plus a minuscule amount of vitamins (by weight). So really, molasses is mostly sugar and water- but it is actually a by-product of sugar manufacturing; the majority of the sugar has been extracted and the minerals concentrated. While sugar certainly remains, the mineral content is no less significant.

It is just annoying as hell when all you're caught up on is that 'molasses is nearly all sugar' and 'wont make your buds any bigger' (even though nobody here said molasses would make your buds double in size), and 'old wives tale'- because of some dim-witted 'experiment' you did and yet still provide nothing of credence to back yourself up or even elaborate on said 'experiment'. I mean, do you realize that when you make up a fertigation solution it is nearly all water? It's true.

If people want to provide the organisms in their soil with a high energy food source such as sucrose, glucose and/or fructose- what the hell is wrong with that? Molasses is a decent source that just happens to contain significant enough amounts of potassium and trace minerals, is known to influence microbial activity- and really is nothing new.

The use of sugar and molasses to boost soil microbial activity has been talked about for some time and the theory has been that it provides an energy source that can be utilised equally well by all soil organisms. However, field applications have not tended to produce many convincing responses. SWEP research with molasses has shown significant effects on soil biology, but they are more complex than expected.
Again, the best results appeared to be at the lowest application rate (two litres per hectare), with lactic acid bacteria and yeast predictably giving the strongest response, but with fungi and cellulose utilisers also responding (at the lowest rate). Interestingly, photosynthetic bacteria showed the opposite response, with activity increasing as the application rate increased.
http://www.tomatocasual.com/2010/07/15/the-tomato-chronicles-diy-fertilizer/
http://www.bfa.com.au/Portals/0/BFAFiles/AUT05-bioactive-materials.pdf
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Brix is an american term, this may be the root of spanish's confusion. BRIX = how much sugar in a plant

"Named for A. F. W. Brix, a nineteenth-century German inventor, the Brix scale is a system used in the United States to measure the sugar content of grapes and wine. The Brix (sugar content) is determined by a Hydrometer, which indicates a liquid's Specific Gravity (the density of a liquid in relation to that of pure water). Each degree Brix is equivalent to 1 gram of sugar per 100 grams of grape juice. "
 

Unnk

Well-Known Member
danke matt again meant no offense by my other post but brix content has been researched alot
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
danke matt again meant no offense by my other post but brix content has been researched alot
Please find a '.edu' source that says plants pull up sugars from the soil. While BRIX content can be important and indicative of many things good and bad, the plant is producing these sugars. I can't help but feel like you're implying that adding sugar to the soil somehow corrects or improves the BRIX levels in plants to a degree that is measurable by yields, taste or overall performance.
 

Unnk

Well-Known Member
Please find a '.edu' source that says plants pull up sugars from the soil. While BRIX content can be important and indicative of many things good and bad, the plant is producing these sugars. I can't help but feel like you're implying that adding sugar to the soil somehow corrects or improves the BRIX levels in plants to a degree that is measurable by yields, taste or overall performance.

talk to sub hes the one that turned me on to it... he got the idea from VIC
 
BRIX is what they use to check sugar content in mainly fruit. Oranges apples lemons so on and so forth. I have never hered of any one grab one of them damn meters and sqeezing a bud till a couple of drops fall on the scope. The fact of the matter is research it all u want. I use it because it does boost microbe activity and chelate (breakdown) any unwanted chemicals or metals within our soil. So pretty much the molds will eat any unwated crap. As for double the size or even increase in wieght not sur but who asked. The reason of the post was to get the facts on how much and of what is in the biproduct of sugar making. If you are trying something on your plants and you like the results. even if there is none positive nor negitive do what you feel is best. My aunt when i was a little kid would take fresh picked flowers, it could have been roses or what ever but she would put them in a vase and always added sugar to the vase. Not sure why but here flowers would stay pretty longer than my moms. So does molassas make a differnce not sure, will it make plant bigger faster not sure. But i do know ive used it with out any negitive results and you should at least try it out.
 

Unnk

Well-Known Member
http://hightimes.com/grow/jkine/2557 not that im endorsing sweet at all just read nor am i endorsing everything high times said but you said you never heard anyone doing it for bud... its for fruits and veggies yes... but what is a cannabis... a fruiting plant... and you can take a brix reading on leaves
 

Thor1911

Well-Known Member
What the heck is your problem, really? I only ask because it seems like every time somebody makes a thread or asks a specific question about molasses, you have to say "molasses is nearly all sugar"- which couldn't be further from the truth, and then "makes no difference to the size of your buds". Quite frankly, nobody who actually knows anything about molasses and it's proper use and applications even makes such a claim- largely being a result of your taking the ignorance of first time growers out of proportion. Oh yah, and because of some half-assed 'experiment' you performed.

Regardless, sugar is a high-energy food source which in nature plants would be donating to micro-organisms along with other substances via root exudates.

So, to actually answer the OP's question: it depends on the brand but typically something like 1-0-5. Use about a tablespoon per gallon of water throughout the grow, except for the last couple weeks. Molasses is high in nutrients such as magnesium and can contribute to a harsh finished product.

Molasses is about 55% sugar. The other 45% goes like this (per 100 grams, human % DV provided for reference):


Minerals
  • Calcium ----- 205 mg --- 20%
  • Iron -------- 4.7 mg --- 26%
  • Magnesium --- 242 mg --- 61%
  • Phosphorus -- 31 mg ---- 3%
  • Potassium --- 1464 mg -- 42%
  • Sodium ------ 37 mg ---- 2%
  • Zinc -------- 0.3 mg --- 2%
  • Copper ------ 0.5 mg --- 24%
  • Manganese --- 1.5 mg --- 77%
  • Selenium ---- 17.8 mcg - 25%
Vitamins

  • Thiamin -------- > 0.0 mg -- 3%
  • Niacin ------------- 0.9 mg -- 5%
  • Vitamin B6 ------- 0.7 mg -- 34%
  • Pantothenic Acid - 0.8 mg -- 8%
  • Choline ---------- 13.3 mg - ~
Sugars (55.5 g)

  • Sucrose 29403 mg
  • Glucose 11919 mg
  • Fructose 12791 mg
How many times do I have to post this for Spanishfly to quit spreading mis-information like "molasses is just sugar"? Does anybody read my posts or is it a comprehension problem?
Thats how spanishfly is, a stubborn dumb ass :)

Plus nice find
 

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
http://hightimes.com/grow/jkine/2557 not that im endorsing sweet at all just read nor am i endorsing everything high times said but you said you never heard anyone doing it for bud... its for fruits and veggies yes... but what is a cannabis... a fruiting plant... and you can take a brix reading on leaves
I use sweet for the added sulfur and magnesium. I've also started running some beneficials with it so the bugs can utilize the cane sugar. In the past, I've run side-by-side tests between the grape and berry flavors and found no difference whatsoever. I recently conducted a comparison between GH and DynaGro and I was using sweet with my GH line. The 'testers' noticed no difference in flavor between the GH grown product (with sweet) and the DynaGro grown product (DG line only).

While I do like Sweet for the secondary macros, I can't help but think that's a little bit of an advertisement. Why wouldn't they have pictures of the dozen other 'sweeteners' on the market? Hooray for high times :(.
 

Unnk

Well-Known Member
like i said i m not endorsing it just trying to find vic highs statement about brix i remember reading it regardless i do notice a diff just using a sucanat feeding on subs super soil 3 times during day 30-45 of bloom and i used it twice during veg to rev up the microbes for the start of bloom
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
I don't know about it causing any 'lockout'. The only logical reason such a situation may occur has to do with the fact that molasses is acidic (like most nutrients), and so could lower soil pH, especially at high doses (which I wouldn't recommend). Soil needs to be properly amended to counter pH plummeting as a result of the [heavy] application of various acidic fertilizers typically applied. Most of us handle this with dolomite lime, crushed oyster or egg shells or other sources of calcium carbonate; other neutral amendments such as coco coir help, and certainly having a thriving living soil helps. Soil biota doesn't very much care for soil which is acidic and prefers to be in the neutral-alkaline range.

Nutrient burn shouldn't be a concern, but I still wouldn't recommend using copious amounts of molasses. I've heard of problems relating to it causing soil to become 'sticky', which I have yet to witness, and the potential for the molasses to attract insects-particularly ants. Again these are reasons not to use copious amounts of the stuff. You'll often find molasses or beet molasses listed as an ingredient on various liquid organic fertilizers.
Some really good stuff that I missed here.

Molasses is acidic pH: I just tested this with my city water source to see how strong molasses's affect on water pH is.

My tap water is pH about 8.2, dissolved solids about 130-170 ppm, carbonates unknown (the tester is in the mail).

I use wholesome sweeteners organic blackstrap molasses.

I tested: 1/4 tbs of molasses in one quart of water (aka 1 tbps per gallon).

Initial pH = 8.3. Post molasses pH = 6.8

Soil pH: so correct me if I am wrong, but Cannabis prefers a slightly acidic pH, and soil biota prefers a slightly alkaline pH?

Sticky soil(less): they must be using WAY too much.
 

Spanishfly

Well-Known Member
Thats how spanishfly is, a stubborn dumb ass :)

Plus nice find
Firstly, when you gow up you may be able to read posts with which you disagree without hurling childish abuse.

Why do you call me stubborn??

Sorry, I just found molasses did not work !!! Just repeating my experience with using it.

Sorry, you want me to lie and say it did work??? Would you be happy then??

OK, lots of molasses fans still state the THEORY why it should work, according to them.

But none of them have yet posted any PICS of their spectacular grows.

Wonder why ????
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
Firstly, when you gow up you may be able to read posts with which you disagree without hurling childish abuse.

Why do you call me stubborn??

Sorry, I just found molasses did not work !!! Just repeating my experience with using it.

Sorry, you want me to lie and say it did work??? Would you be happy then??

OK, lots of molasses fans still state the THEORY why it should work, according to them.

But none of them have yet posted any PICS of their spectacular grows.

Wonder why ????
It's been explained already, numerous times in fact. That's why you're being stubborn.;-)
 

Spanishfly

Well-Known Member
the sums there don't add up because that isn't the full composition of molasses in terms of chemical components. I see how that could be misleading, but the point is to illustrate that of a 100 gram sample, 55.5 of those grams are actually sugar. Out of a 20 gram sample, 11 grams is 'sugar', 4.4 grams is water, .7 grams ash, and much of what remains is the mineral content, plus a minuscule amount of vitamins (by weight). So really, molasses is mostly sugar and water- but it is actually a by-product of sugar manufacturing; the majority of the sugar has been extracted and the minerals concentrated. While sugar certainly remains, the mineral content is no less significant.

It is just annoying as hell when all you're caught up on is that 'molasses is nearly all sugar' and 'wont make your buds any bigger' (even though nobody here said molasses would make your buds double in size), and 'old wives tale'- because of some dim-witted 'experiment' you did and yet still provide nothing of credence to back yourself up or even elaborate on said 'experiment'.

If people want to provide the organisms in their soil with a high energy food source such as sucrose, glucose and/or fructose- what the hell is wrong with that? Molasses is a decent source that just happens to contain significant enough amounts of potassium and trace minerals, is known to influence microbial activity- and really is nothing new.
Nullis, your initial figures just did not add up - suposed to be a 100 gram sample you say - now you are just adding on more data, much of which is not disputed (yes I understand K and K2O) still with no source credited. Whatever, molasses is derived from cane or beet sugar and still contains WAY more sugar than anything else - as your figures show - not quite sure why you find this blindingly obvious fact so annoying.

If you want to give N, P or K and micronutrients add a fert.

OK, my trial when I gave some plants and not others molasses, did nothing to show me that molasses has any effect.

In what way is that dim-witted????

Same basic technique as testing whether any biological additive is effective - give it to some and not others. I know you don´t like the result - but that doesn´t make an established and logical testing method suddenly ´dim-witted´.

OK, some people want to feed their plants sugar - might feed the ants is about all. Some people piss on their plants - it is their right. I won´t do either.

And I am still waiting for some grow pics to show the wonderful effectiveness of molasses. Funny how that is being so studiously ignored.
 
Top