Attention l.e.d growers or anyone intereted!

[benjamin alexander]

hey all again, throwing up a post here looking for a bit of support and ideas/help along the way, ill be taking on a pretty important project to the mmj community at large (well i think) and especially the smaller scale or even large scale L.S.T and COB growers...
after studying for MONTHS and reading more pages than you could imagine ive decided to develop, or at least try to, the ultimate all in one led growlight solution.
im talking a light you can use fron seed to harvest an provide the sort of performance that all the different websites and manifacturers 'claim'.
im not looking to profit, im doing this for myself and those that will help me but at the end of the day i will be more than happy to provide wiring diagrams and instructions as a diy as well as full parts lists, sources, prices etc if i get enough support i WILL buy in bulk and sell as kits at a LITTLE profit but it will bring the purchase price down off a one off unit due to the bulk purchase discount i will get and pass on to my fellow growers/smokers
ok, now to the light itself, ive got a fair idea after reading so much about the inherent weaknesses within the led tech and although i dont have the knowledge to solve these flaws i CAN put take what already exists and make it SO much better, heres how my plan looks now-
using a brilliant design i found on ebay but only drawing inspiration i plan on building a TRUE full spectrum led array, 12 spectrums, all with the approppriate percentage needed to closely replecate sunlight.
one of the main problems i see is companies trying to claim you only need the red and blue spectrum to grow are full of it i call BS on all counts.
it has been said many times on this forum that lights will never replace the sun, true, at least for now but surely to closely replicate the full effects of growing in the sun you will need ALL the sun's spectrums (well nearly lol) so this is what my light panel design will supply BUT it will also be completely controllable, it will either have a power dial for each of the 12 spectrums (to change percentage and intensity between seed/veg/flower) to your personal levels or a usb attatchment with software but i think ill kiss for now and with experimentation and documentation we may even be able to build a database of what strains perform the best under what spectrums at what stage as a guide for beginners.
i will be using only top quality CREE lamps, both 3 and 1 watt (3 for the more prevelant spectrums ans 1 for the less needed spectrums) spread out over a large square board to better disperse the light over the plant that will normally be in a square rubbermaid comtainer anyway, ufo's work well for one plant but not over wide footprints.
now we come to the next biggest difference-viewing angle and penetration!

i need to stress this point- THESE LIGHTS WILL ONY BE DESIGNED FOR LST/COB STYLE GROWS

i believe one of the biggest downfalls of the led light industry is not the lights or the tech itself but the misuse and high expectations of the people buying them. L.E.Ds do not have a fantastic penetration FACT so why try to grow an 18 inch tall plant and bitch about the results? LED lights have their place, as do cfls and hps lights. where i believe led will be most efficient is in a small stealth setup, space limeted and still wanting great results.

i will be using wider viewing angle led's (120 degree) and accept the fact these panels will never match a hps for penetration and move on. by using a wider viewing angle, the light will be able to be placed closer to the plants and will have a much better 'spread' over a footprint.

i will be using two seperate power supplies, one for the red/blue primary spectrums and one for the rest, to avoid overload and its just easier, may not even need to include a fan at this point but if i do it will be open to suggestion? maybe one large or 4 micro fans, depends when we get to that point.

well ive rambled far too much now but i believe i have the knowledge and the info to try it out and maybe pull it off.

thoughts, suggestions, ideas anyone?

thanks for reading!

 

[Red.ii.Inc]

Not gonna work. sorry buddy. they just dont put out
give it 15 years they will be the new thing. Unless you have a manufacturing facilty and are gifted in the field in lumens.....gotta wait like the rest of us.
Best of luck to ya tho brotha. Keep me posted on how it all turns out

 

[benjamin alexander]

Thats what i thought at first. But after seeing many grow journals, and reading many threads praising how awsome L.E.D's are for the veg phase and seeing the results and after hearing about the only downfall during the flowering cycle is the result of light airy buds which can be fixed by supplementing with the correct spectrum cfl globes i thought rather than just supplement with cfls globes why not just add the correct spetrum to the led panel itself along with the ability to switch the spectrums off and change the intensity between the veg and flower stages. i figure by providing the full spectrum using quality CREED globes i could eliminate the needs to use cfls, thius providing a light that can be used throughout the entire grow cycle

and without getting into the science of it too much, lumens really dont have alot to do with how u measure light efficiency when it comes to growing plants, lumens are just how bright it is to the naked eye, there isnt actually current tech to measure a lights efficiency in the correct spectrums for plant growth, there's actually a little calculation behind it and by using enough of the correct wattage quality globes trust me led's CAN provide enough light just gotta put it all together for quality not profit which no one has done yet...

 

[benjamin alexander]

and i do agree they just dont put out enough for larger or denser plants, the problem with penetration again and i absolutely in that field led's CANNOT keep up with other light tech YET but in the right situation (4-8 site aero/bubbleponic setup with L.S.T or COBB methods of growing on the smaller scale) they can be an awesome all in one solution if done right, just trying to be the first one to do it right and not for the money.

 

[Red.ii.Inc]

Just said lumens as a generality for lighting lol. But like i said best of luck. let me no how things go. I would love to switch my system.

 

[benjamin alexander]

lol thats cool, you are right lumen for lumen led's fall behind but plants only care about lumens as far as penetration goes, think about it which shines farther, a torch with 100 lumens or 1000 lumens? lumens isnt the TYPE of light it's just HOW STRONG the light is and hells yeah led's arent as powerful in terms of lumens thats why your plants can be so close to them and not get burnt ya dig? closer to plant = less 'wasted' light = more efiicient. thats what all the rage is about with led's they produce the SAME SPECTRUM without the LUMENS of larger lights andd therefore avoid problems with HEAT. these are all the cons about led's its just no one has offered the right combinations of tech together to make it work sweet, thats what i wanna do!

 

[benjamin alexander]

thats why i said without getting into the science of it too much, just did a roundup and ive downloaded more than 120 documents, 3000 pages that ive read about everything l.e.d, plant light spectrums and efficiency, every other type of light imaginable... i reckon ive got it sussed and if you have any questions, technical or general about these things i'll prob be able to answer ya!

 

[plsfoldthx]

I honestly think that all you need is the two spectrums at the two peaks of chloryphyll... they DO use other spectrums of light, but photons are photons... What I don't understand is if chlorophyll can sufficiently function to transport electrons with one wavelength, why is there a need to incorporate other, less efficient wavelengths of light? What did you come across regarding this with your research?

 

[tet1953]

Who knows, maybe benjamin will be the one to put it all together. Good luck, we'll be watching

 

[Grumpy Old Dreamer]

thats why i said without getting into the science of it too much, just did a roundup and ive downloaded more than 120 documents, 3000 pages that ive read about everything l.e.d, plant light spectrums and efficiency, every other type of light imaginable... i reckon ive got it sussed and if you have any questions, technical or general about these things i'll prob be able to answer ya!

Can you compare and critique the effectiveness of generic CREE bulbs with their low penetration and the more focussed higher penetration Kessil globes that are not generic LEDs and are specifically designed and manufactured for horticulture?

 

[benjamin alexander]

i found that YES you can grow mj and many other plants using the red and blue spectrum BUT for example-the yellow spectrum is used in lesser quantity to assist the plant to absorb nutes? hence why supplementing with cfls can solve the airy nug issue by helping this slightly... if you study up on it you'll find that mj plants do use red, blue, yello but they also use several others ie there is a spectrum when delivered in low quantities actually helps mj produce a protein to help fight off bacteria? hells yeah but too much and itll burn your leaves, sound familiar? well with complete and adjustable control of ALL 12 spectrums, not only can you DIAL UP the power of the needed spectrums you can also DIAL DOWN the spectrums that might normally be in too much quantity get me? you would be able to dial every spectrum PERFECTLY and at the right power for EVERY STAGE of the grow! all the theory checks out in triplicate PERFECTLY with me and a few in the know just time to 'piece it all together' and make it work! i think i can hells yeah!

 

[Viagro]

This should be interesting. You know I'll be watching.

LEDs gonna shake-up the world!

 

[benjamin alexander]

maybe not the WHOLE world but im hoping it may cause a little stir, in pants all over tis site, over the bud porn i hope to produce! lol

 

[benjamin alexander]

UPDATE- it will work people! ive had a guy who works for the dsto here running a few sums and doing some research for me and in this intended application ALONE or for maybe something like strawberries (thats what he 'said' he was looking into lol) 'low, ground hugging plants that need little light penetration of the canopy will beniifit greatly by having the light source so close and achieving full saturation of ALL spectrums is potentially possible while also removing the risk of foliar burn, heavy evaporation and heat while optimising the plants ability to absorb nutrients, grow to its full potential in its fruiting stage and help it fight diesase by helping to provide the corrrect spectrum to the plant to create the protein to do so' was his little speach to sound all proper on the phone thismornin, he even suggested a great idea to solve the lack of lumens- LED GROW BOX

build a box, mdf, ply whatevs, then instead of using an led light panel, use the walls and roof AS the panels, mount led arrays in the walls themselves (double seam wall, take it apart easy to replace globes EVENTUALLY lol.
that way we could wire the box in 1/3rds according to height, even more spectral adjustment to provide the right light saturation for all heights on the plant, canopy, foilage, buds etc while allowing to turn the lights OFF on the lower levels and move your plants closer to the roof during the early stages, conserving power, heat and light energy! ill be building one if a single panel works and selling design plans and prefab boxes if it does work.
i think an led grow box is an amazing idea, it would look awesome for starters, no lights to f around with and could solve penetration issues completely allowing to grow relatively tall/medium plants 12-18 inches in height!! using quality powerful globes that is!

 

[plsfoldthx]

i found that YES you can grow mj and many other plants using the red and blue spectrum BUT for example-the yellow spectrum is used in lesser quantity to assist the plant to absorb nutes? hence why supplementing with cfls can solve the airy nug issue by helping this slightly...

The reason why supplementing CFLs help is simply because you're adding more light. Regarding yellow spectrum assisting in absorbing nutes... what? Photons just provide the energy to help the plant transport electrons to carry out metabolic processes. I don't understand how a different wavelength of light can help the plant transport nutrients better? What did you find in your research?

if you study up on it you'll find that mj plants do use red, blue, yello but they also use several others ie there is a spectrum when delivered in low quantities actually helps mj produce a protein to help fight off bacteria? hells yeah but too much and itll burn your leaves, sound familiar?

Again, do plants have other light sensors besides chlorophyll that senses this wavelength of light and upregulates this so-called bacteria fighting gene? Light doesn't burn your leaves... you're confusing light with heat.

well with complete and adjustable control of ALL 12 spectrums, not only can you DIAL UP the power of the needed spectrums you can also DIAL DOWN the spectrums that might normally be in too much quantity get me? you would be able to dial every spectrum PERFECTLY and at the right power for EVERY STAGE of the grow! all the theory checks out in triplicate PERFECTLY with me and a few in the know just time to 'piece it all together' and make it work! i think i can hells yeah!

Again, can you cite some specific research? Does the structure of chlorophyll change and absorb different spectrums differently as the plant matures?

 

[smokermore]

interesting thread. Im still trying to figure out what COB means lol.

 

[tet1953]

interesting thread. Im still trying to figure out what COB means lol.

Not certain, but I think it might mean California Orange Bud.

 

[GENERALIVXX]

interesting thread, im subd

 

[smokermore]

Not certain, but I think it might mean California Orange Bud.

ahhhh i see i see, thnx for the clarification

 

[Spoc]

Benjamin...look into hooking up with another member who goes by Loki. I've read several of his posts regarding LEDs and found that he builds his own systems. Very knowledgable and might even steer you in the right direction..