Anyone use non 24 hour light cycles?

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
Like lights on for 16 hours, off for 12, on for 16, off for 12, etc. If it was still getting the full 12 hours of darkness would it remain in flower or would this stress it out? If so would it increase bud production since you have a higher fraction of light before harvest? Or would it still require 70 "days" (in this case 60 28-hr days would elapse while 70 24-hr days elapse in the same time, so it only had 60 night cycles in the real worlds 70 days)?

Anyone ever done anything like this?
 
I believe you can only have around 12 hours of daylight to flower. It is my understanding that as the plant is exposed to light, certain hormones start to build up. When the photoperiod is limited to 12 hours those hormones don't build up to peak levels and the plant then starts to flower. Therefore I don't believe your idea would work. I have read about 12 hours light, 5.5 hours dark, 1 hour light, 5.5 hours dark per 24hr period which then keeps the plant growing in flower, but haven't tried that method myself.
 

Chillums

Well-Known Member
There were many threads about this a bit over a year ago, I don't really remember any of them amounting to anything. As far as I am concerned Mother Nature has perfected this long before we even began playing with it. But good luck if you do decide to play with photoperiods. Happy growing!
Chillums
 

frmrboi

Well-Known Member
you have to do the reverse BTW maintain a 12 hour day ( you can push this to 14 hours safely) and a shortened night This suposedly will shorten the time that day night cycles take and make for a shorter time to finish blooming.
 

TaoWolf

Active Member
I believe you can only have around 12 hours of daylight to flower. It is my understanding that as the plant is exposed to light, certain hormones start to build up. When the photoperiod is limited to 12 hours those hormones don't build up to peak levels and the plant then starts to flower. Therefore I don't believe your idea would work. I have read about 12 hours light, 5.5 hours dark, 1 hour light, 5.5 hours dark per 24hr period which then keeps the plant growing in flower, but haven't tried that method myself.
That's close but the hormone that regulates flowering builds up during the dark period and is regulated or deregulated by exposure to light. Most plants require 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness to allow that hormone (FT) to attain high enough levels. BUT what appears to be even more important to the plant is staying on a 24 hour circadian rhythm. Plants have receptors in their leaves that are used to regulate their hormones according to what time of day (or night) the plant 'thinks' it is. Here's a good article:

http://howplantswork.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/how-plants-make-flowers-part-5-photoperiod-biological-clocks-and-florigen/

It even has a separate presentation to explain why the dark period is more important than the length of day and what role a 24 hour circadian rhythm plays with the process. Click the link to the animation, click on the 'animation' tab and then click on the step through. It explains it better than anything I've seen.
 

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
I believe you can only have around 12 hours of daylight to flower. It is my understanding that as the plant is exposed to light, certain hormones start to build up. When the photoperiod is limited to 12 hours those hormones don't build up to peak levels and the plant then starts to flower. Therefore I don't believe your idea would work. I have read about 12 hours light, 5.5 hours dark, 1 hour light, 5.5 hours dark per 24hr period which then keeps the plant growing in flower, but haven't tried that method myself.
I thought it was the other way around, ie night being the important part of the hormone process. Light just interupts that process. And since we all use 24 hour cycles night and day are necessarily tied together.

Yeah some people wanna reinvent the wheel.
Not reinvent it, just improve it. I mean if you could change the environment to maximize the output and make the process more efficient within the plants genetics, wouldnt you? You rarely just imitate nature when you grow, you try to maximize whats possible. Very few marijuana plants are grown hydroponically, in a screen, with artificially elevated CO2 levels by mother nature.

That's close but the hormone that regulates flowering builds up during the dark period and is regulated or deregulated by exposure to light. Most plants require 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness to allow that hormone (FT) to attain high enough levels. BUT what appears to be even more important to the plant is staying on a 24 hour circadian rhythm. Plants have receptors in their leaves that are used to regulate their hormones according to what time of day (or night) the plant 'thinks' it is. Here's a good article:

http://howplantswork.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/how-plants-make-flowers-part-5-photoperiod-biological-clocks-and-florigen/

It even has a separate presentation to explain why the dark period is more important than the length of day and what role a 24 hour circadian rhythm plays with the process. Click the link to the animation, click on the 'animation' tab and then click on the step through. It explains it better than anything I've seen.
But wait why is it on a circadian cycle? "BUT what appears to be even more important to the plant is staying on a 24 hour circadian rhythm. Plants have receptors in their leaves that are used to regulate their hormones according to what time of day (or night) the plant 'thinks' it is."

Are you sure about that? Does the plant "think" its a certain time of the day by the actual time? I thought it "thinks" its a certain time of the day by the light. When it gets flooded with light in the morning, it must be morning. When its dark its night. As long as you still have a 12 hour night cycle it would allow the FT to get up above the threshold level to induce (or continue) flowering.


Also im not going to begin messing with light cycles. I am just curious as to what would happen.
 

frmrboi

Well-Known Member
As long as you still have a 12 hour night cycle it would allow the FT to get up above the threshold level to induce (or continue) flowering.
as I said already it's the reverse. How do I know that, because I've heard of this process before short nights and 12 hour days,to supposedly shorten the time it takes to finish flowering. If was the other way around their grows would have stopped flowering and reveged, right ?
 

TaoWolf

Active Member
But wait why is it on a circadian cycle? "BUT what appears to be even more important to the plant is staying on a 24 hour circadian rhythm. Plants have receptors in their leaves that are used to regulate their hormones according to what time of day (or night) the plant 'thinks' it is."

Are you sure about that? Does the plant "think" its a certain time of the day by the actual time? I thought it "thinks" its a certain time of the day by the light. When it gets flooded with light in the morning, it must be morning. When its dark its night. As long as you still have a 12 hour night cycle it would allow the FT to get up above the threshold level to induce (or continue) flowering.
What they did to show this was to take some plants (that flower just like cannabis) - put them in long periods of darkness, and then would randomly flash them with some light at different times and measure the response biochemically. What they found is that even though the plants were in darkness for extended periods, they were still staying on a 24 hour hormonal rhythm and that the response to the light flashes would vary according to whatever time of day the plant thought it was still on (within a 24 hour cycle). Even though the plant was in total darkness it continued right on with assuming it *should* be day or night at certain times within a 24 hour cycle.

What that means is that plants have a twenty-four hour circadian rhythm (like most living things on earth) that isn't entirely dependent on just the rising and setting of the sun or the length of daylight. It was previously thought that 'sensors' in leaves, called phytochromes, were responsible for telling a plant when the day/night cycles were long or short enough that they should flower. But like the above experiment showed, these phytochromes are actually not primarily responsible for regulating hormones (like FT). Instead, it's been shown that plants use phytochromes simply to orient themselves to where they are on any 24 hour cycle... but in the end, they are programmed to stay on a 24 hour rhythm despite changing day/night schedules.

But you are right, if a flowering plant like cannabis gets at least 12 hours or so of uninterrupted darkness, it will begin to flower. That darkness could be 12 hours or it could be more - it will flower as long as the dark periods remain over 12 hours or so in length. However the plant is still going to plod along on a circadian rhythm and assume that if there is 12 hours of night there will be 12 hours of daylight (or close). So if a plant were given 12 hours of darkness and say 24 of light in a 'day' then half way through the daylight period the plant will begin to assume night is coming and chemically prepare to switch from producing sugars with photosynthesis to consuming sugars during the expected absence of light... and the overall benefit of an extended light period will be minimized.

Over a period of time, the phytochromes, and the hormonal responses they time-keep for, will eventually cause the plant to try and readjust when it assumes day or night will start... but the plant will just be spinning it's wheels because it is hard-wired to be on a 24 hour cycle regardless of anything else.

The result is continual hormonal confusion within the plant that makes the extra light periods inefficient. And possibly confuses things enough to result in stress and awesome things like hermaphroditism.
 

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
as I said already it's the reverse. How do I know that, because I've heard of this process before short nights and 12 hour days,to supposedly shorten the time it takes to finish flowering. If was the other way around their grows would have stopped flowering and reveged, right ?
Yes I would think it would reveg. Not to say you are wrong, but every source i've ever read says you are wrong and you have it reversed.
 

Japanfreak

New Member
By the way they make digital timers that are not dependent on a 24 day cycle for the reasons the OP was asking about. They are expenseive, a few hundred bucks or something. I believe they were reviewed in CC so you might be able to find their article on-line.
 

TaoWolf

Active Member
This is how I understand it: Even with a digital timer that you can set to run non-earthly 'days', you'll still run into issues with entraining any plant to go very far outside of a 24 hour cycle. In plants, I've read the maximum limit is somewhere around 6 extra hours. Cannabis isn't likely to be one of those species extremes that can be that far entrained... and is more likely to have a limit around 2 or 3 extra hours (26-27 hour long 'days') in a single cycle. If you go outside of an entraining limit, the plant will 'freerun' (attempt to resynchonize itself) for a period and then give up on the entrainment cycle (cued by the photoperiods) and go back to trying to stay on a genetically entrained circadian rhythm (of 1 day is equal to 24 hours).

Or in short, if the total length of both the dark and light periods within a single cycle exceeds 24 hours by an extra few hours or so, you can expect a constantly hormonally confused plant that won't be taking advantage of the separate light and dark periods like it should.

There is something called frequency demultiplication that might be useful if you want to experiment with exotic lighting schedules that may not confuse a plant too much, but the fact that the dark period has to stay at 12 hours or longer would be problematic during flowering.
 

newworldicon

Well-Known Member
What about 6 on 6 off, 6 on 6 off in a 24 hour cycle, effectively mimicking if only half the actual time 2 days. Has anyone read anything about this or tried it at all? I have the space and equipment to try it out on some plants.
 

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
What about 6 on 6 off, 6 on 6 off in a 24 hour cycle, effectively mimicking if only half the actual time 2 days. Has anyone read anything about this or tried it at all? I have the space and equipment to try it out on some plants.
You need 12 hours of straight darkness though. Light interrupts the hormone process that occurs during the dark period. That is why you must give them 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness.
 

newworldicon

Well-Known Member
You need 12 hours of straight darkness though. Light interrupts the hormone process that occurs during the dark period. That is why you must give them 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness.
I have a thread elsewhere addressing this question. The 12 comes in when indoor growers found a good compromise to light schedules back in the day, in nature the days are graduated less every day. The question is really where is that threshold, if it is not 12 hours as shown in nature then how many hours exactly are needed. Either way it does not matter as I think 6 hours is not enough to induce flowering, my gut tells me around 7-8 hours but thats when it starts so the extra 4-5 hours is really needed to augment the process.
Ive just put them back on 12/12.
 
Top