600W DWC Cabinet System - 1st Run

[phenob]

This is a grow journal to track the 1st run of this semi-stealth storage cabinet design:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/387491-600w-semi-stealth-multi-chamber.html

View attachment 1289132

This is my first time with both hydroponics and clones, always grown with soil and seed previous to this. I learn something every single day, hopefully this journal helps someone else out.

The basic setup is DWC in 5" net pots under 600W, using AN sensi grow / bloom nutrients with additional stuff as needed. Keeping the nute regimen as simple as possible for my first hydro.

Water used is mostly PHd down tap water. Medium is all Cocodan coco croutons, both in the DWC net pots and in hempy buckets used for momma plants.

Planning on ScrOGing this grow pending the addition of a screen to my grow cab, but haven't ruled out just letting them grow straight. Will see how things go and how much further I want to complicate matters.

The grow is almost at 2 weeks now, so will catch up and try to keep updated. Day 1 is the day the clones came home. No idea how old they are other than guessing 7 -10 days.

Questions, comments, threats, insults, porterhouse steaks, dancing girlies, whatever all welcome in the thread.

 

[phenob]

DAY 1
11/13/2010



Picked up 3x "O.G. Kush" clones from a collective in Garden Grove. This is a test run so not being too picky about what goes in. No idea what the end product of this strain looks like, never seen "O.G. Kush" at this collective before.

Brought them home, stuck them under the T5 for a couple of hours, then decided I'd go ahead and stick two in the DWC tank straight away. I gave them a few squirts over the top with the nutrient solution in the tank. Pic above shows PPM on that mixture. Bet you can't guess what happened next?

1000+ ppms do not a happy clone make.

Notice how the clone stems are green. Not for long!

I set the light in chamber 1 to 600w MH at about 20" above. The chamber 2 light is 4x 2' T5, and I set the remaining 2 clones about 10" below that, of course giving them a drink of the same overnutriated water from the chamber 1 tank.

Chamber 1 was 79-83f, 32% humid. Chamber 2 at this point had no ventilation fan, so temps ended up 85-90f.

 

[phenob]

DAY 2



You can already see the red stems starting to creep in. Leaves are starting to V up like a venus fly trap. Warning signs abound. I ignore them all, and decide to throw the 3rd clone in the tank too.

No real change to environmental conditions.

 

[phenob]

DAY 3


Droopy, crispy clones. You can see red stems further setting in, and the beginnings of ash grey darkness setting in on the leaves. I continue undaunted and drip feed the clones some with the same nutrient solution.
I adjust the ventilation to keep a lower temp, 81f max.

At this point the lights have been on 24/7, 600W MH at about 20".

 

[phenob]

DAY 4


I begin to realize that I am both overfeeding and over-lighting these plants. I take ppm down to the 900s by pumping out a gallon or two at a time and replacing it with PHd tap water. The tap water was not aerated at all, right out of the tap, so it drove PH a little nutty for a day or so but calmed down pretty quickly. PH until now has been at 6.2 ish. This takes it down to 6.
I set the lumatek adjustable ballast to 400W mode and the cooltube 18" off the tops. I also add a humidifier and get the humidity up to around 50-55%.
Plants are still unhappy, but new growth is continuing so I'm not too worried. Not ever using clones before, I have no idea what to expect as far as shock time, etc, so I'm figuring they will truck on through my abuse, and they do.

 

[phenob]

DAY 5

I further dilute the tank down to 850ish ppm and ph down a little more to 5.8. This is where the sensi grow says I ought to be, and since then, this is where the tank likes to stabilize, which seems pretty helpful.
I also decide that 24 hours of light is too much and cut the cycle down to 20/4. This is where it remains now, and I think it was a good decision. I can't really point to any particular evidence, but after this change the plants seemed happier.
New growth continues unabated, but you can still see the lousy mood that this OG is in.
I carefully pull out a clone to see what root progress is being made, following up with another hand feeding of tank solution diluted down about half with PHd water.

 

[phenob]

DAY 6

Picked up two Blue Dream clones from the same collective the night before. This is them after a night under the T5s in chamber 2. Look how happy and perky those leaves are. We'll fix that on short order..
OGs still not particularly happy, still good new growth though. You can see just offhand the difference in condition between the plants in the tank for a few days and the new clones.
PPM down to 800ish. Ph stable at 5.8. It goes down a bit when I add water to dilute but always stablizes back at 5.8.

I've been doing a sniff test on the res every day, and today I know for sure that I smell some funk. Shouldn't be with res temp nailed at 67, but no argueing with the smell of mildew. Something ain't right. No time to track down the ingredients for what looks like killer beneficial microbe tea posted by .. Heisenberg? on here, I head to the store and pick up a bottle of dutch master zone. I add it at half strength (see? learning already..).

 

[phenob]

DAY 7

One of the Blue Dream clones gets stuck in the tank with the OGs, the other stays in a cup in the main chamber, getting it out of the heat in the still unventilated chamber 2.
New growth is slow but nice looking, otherwise the plants look like crap. I try a little more humidity, and further dropping the temp to hover from 72 - 78f or so.
More darkening on the OG leaves, and notice the difference in stem colors between the OGs and the Blue Dream. I did not pick up on this for a few more days.

 

[drew0377]

looks good but definitely overfeeding them. ppms i usually keep around 125-200 on newly transplanted clones. you need to slowly increase ppm every week or 2. this will help prevent shock, and keep your plants looking healthier. As for lighting, 600 is fine as long as the temps in the cabinet and plants does not exceed 80. I usually start mine under a 1000 watter. I like your cabinet setup. I would like to do something like that for myself. I will be following yours for sure....sub'd

 

[countbongula420]

Sub'd. Lookin good! Love those strains!

 

[phenob]

DAY 8

The OGs seem to be picking up growth but the dark spots and mal-nutrition symptoms continue. I get PPM down to 700ish.
Check the difference in the two Blue Dreams. the one in the tank is just pleased as can be, not nearly as upset about is as the OGs were. She's just happy and staying that way. The one in the cup is droopy and sad. This was first clue that I might be underfeeding it. I hand water it (it's in a small rockwool cube) and drain off the excess, but the plant still isn't happy. I leave her be, major modifications tomorrow as I'm sick of that crappy looking mess in chamber one, and we need some air moving in chamber 2.

 

[phenob]

DAY 9


Some much needed mods to the design. Things cleaned up substantially in chamber 1, humidifier out and staying out unless needed badly. Chamber 2 gets a 120mm pc fan (no thermo yet) and a vent hole. No filtering, no nothing but some air movement. I find the 120mm moves enough air to open the backdraft dampener in chamber 1, just through little airleaks that i havent fixed yet. Add that stuff to the short list .. with the 120mm pulling from chamber 1 like that it thwarts the CAN-33 filter and, sure enough, the next morning it smelled like someone was growing weed in he-ah.

No roots showing yet. The blue dream is finally showing signs of discontent, with red stem creeping in as well. New growth is still great on all plants.

It was a looong night of work but the feng shui in the cabs is much improved.

Knew I had a stack of beer buckets around for some reason. I made one into a hempy bucket with just coco croutons, and after planting the odd Blue Dream clone (mother to be) I gave it a good flush with the main tank solution dilted by about 60% with PHd distilled water. Note how sad and droopy she looks just after hitting the bucket.

 

[phenob]

DAY 10

OGs still pissed but growing, new growth bushing out well.
The momma BD is already looking remarkably better the next morning after hitting the bucket. I realize how thirsty she was and give her another good watering. At this point I'm done worrying about overwatering, and she does fine drinking the diluted solution of main tank nutrient water and PHd distilled.
Note third pic there. See the condition of that OG leaf in the background? If your plant looks like that, you are sucking it up in a vacuum cleaner. Stop doing that.
(Don't ask.)

 

[phenob]

DAY 11

ROOTS! Two of the OGs show roots (the ones on the right side).
I stop worrying about overwatering them too and give them a good couple of squirts of straight tank solution, still at around 700ppm.
I do the same for the momma BD.
This and last couple of days have been with 400w, 20/4, chamber temps 74 - 79f, room temp 70 - 65ish. Humidity inside cab and out has been about 45%, no need for the humidifier.

I also add about 24ml of Cal-Mag Plus as my response to the red stems and dark leaf veins. Have heard all sorts of advice about adding calmag when using coco. I'm not using RO water, but what the hell. My research ended up at magnesium deficiency, so into the drink it goes. 24ml is about a third of what the bottle called for. Will add a little more if no response.

 

[phenob]

DAY 12

Roots growing nicely, more showing on the two but not much at all on the BD or other OG. By that night, root showing on the OG just barely.
Momma BD is fucking stoked, growing and stretching and just generally vegetating like vegetation ought to. Hempy bucket for the win, especially with less than half the ppms in there.

 

[phenob]

DAY 13 (Present day)

Roots in the drink now for all the OGs and you can immediately see the difference. New growth is rolling nicely, shots above are both on the most sickly looking OG, the last to get root in the drink. I topped two of its nodes on day 3, check out how nice and green the stems are compared to the old growth stem.
PPM is still 700ish. Swear i'm going to stfu on the forum and go step it down further. Were I not a lazy mofo, I'd have it down to 4-500ish. Probably could be even less but they seem to be adjusting to it already, so I won't worry about taking it down to where it ought to be had I started correctly at around 150-225ppm.
Switched the light to 600W to start the day, will see what the plants think. I tried this two days ago and they seemed to get pissed pretty quickly, the leaves really V'd up like venus fly trap style. This was better after a few hours of backing the light off to 400w again. Decided to try 600W again after more roots in the water. Doing so now.
With light up to 600w I had to back off the light distance by another 6-8" or so. Will tune the setup around for the additional power, should be able to lower it a bit more.
Humid is still 43% in the room, estimating 35-40% in the cab. Need another hydrotherm to be sure now that everything is mounted externally.
Chamber 1 temp is 75-80, chamber 2 stays about 70f. Room temp is 67.

Stems look a little better today. If the redness isn't subsiding (I'm told it will not), then the spread has definitely slowed. I've trimmed the necrocised bits of leaves off, and so far no more necrosis, at least not on leaves where it wasn't present before a trim.

I see the beginnings of burned tips but nothing as major as I thought i'd see. Maybe in for more later tonight, but I swear I'll go out there in a few and dilute it down again.. although i'm really curious to just let em ride and see how they do.

Edit: Diluted solution down to 580ppm. Noticed roots showing and just about in the drink for the Blue Dream. She is thirsty, so she is motivated.

 

[drew0377]

looking good...keep it up....

 

[phenob]

looks good but definitely overfeeding them. ppms i usually keep around 125-200 on newly transplanted clones. you need to slowly increase ppm every week or 2. this will help prevent shock, and keep your plants looking healthier. As for lighting, 600 is fine as long as the temps in the cabinet and plants does not exceed 80. I usually start mine under a 1000 watter. I like your cabinet setup. I would like to do something like that for myself. I will be following yours for sure....sub'd

Thanks. I started out with the advice of "just follow the directions". Mmmhmm. Little more research showed me exactly what you're saying. Next time they get the diluted drink ramped up to full strength by mid-week 3 or so.

For the light, I was thinking that jamming the little plants with 600W was an attempt to make their engines run pedal to the metal without proper intake systems (roots). It was like they were burning themselves up, using stored resources trying to keep up, which they were doing a great job of. New growth has always been going nicely. Once I backed off to 400W the existing vegetation seemed to stabilize. Could be though that they would have stabilized anyway with a day or two more root mass developed, something like that.
Maybe a case of the additional light increasing metabolism, causing the plant to suck up even more over-stuffed nutrient solution. Perhaps full on light would work better for me with the nutrient solution properly diluted. Hah .. perhaps.

 

[drew0377]

I believe the stronger light just shocks them for a day or 2. Mine usually go into shock first time under the 1000. They can take 2 to 3 days before you see improvement, but it will come. Im glad to see you will be working a 600 within a cabinet, as this is something i have thought of doing in the past. I was mostly concerned with keeping it cool. Curious to see the temps you end up with in your cabinet.

 

[phenob]

I believe the stronger light just shocks them for a day or 2. Mine usually go into shock first time under the 1000. They can take 2 to 3 days before you see improvement, but it will come. Im glad to see you will be working a 600 within a cabinet, as this is something i have thought of doing in the past. I was mostly concerned with keeping it cool. Curious to see the temps you end up with in your cabinet.

Me too. This is under a MH conversion bulb which I undertand generates considerably more heat than a straight up 600w HPS. Hope so, because I'd like to get the flowering tops a whole lot closer to that cooltube.
In general, I've found the 400W adds 3 - 5f to room temp, while the 600W adds 7 - 10f. Something like that. The temp sensor is on a piece of coco atop the cooler, so the plant tops are slightly warmer. I also suspect that thermo runs about 2 degrees hot.
Difference with the 600w is that the vent fan has to run a whooooole lot more to maintain temps. No big deal until I introduce CO2 in flower.