Please HELP! First grow - Weird Uneven Nodes - and "Blister" leaves?

[Three]

Im an extremely new grower. I did alot of research, by reading many books, watching non stop growing video's, and getting ahold of any information I could.
Basically, my first successful germination that actually sprouted into anything (I only use bag seeds... ) is now looking a little weird. The second node is coming in, and I've noticed the 2 leaves are way uneven in length. I've also noticed the first node's leaves looking like they are what I would call "blistering".
It's a real poor grow setup, with only one 40w fluorescent lamp, and one 60w CFL. I have a fan that runs almost all the time, and two computer fans pulling in fresh air.
The temp stays around 75-80 degrees, and humidity is pretty much stable at 40-45% at all times.

Im attaching pictures for reference. I would love to hear any thoughts and especially any suggestions.
I want to use good seeds, but am scared of where to buy from. I've heard Attitude is the best, but alot of people have diff. opinions.
Also would love to use clones, but I know noone who grows... so I don't have access to any type of clone.

Please advise on what I should do, or if this is all pretty normal.. The pictures should be fairly good and make the visualization better so you can help.

Thanks in advance !

 

[Dayzt]

From the pictures, it's probably too soon to tell for sure if there's even a problem, but a few things that could cause issues at this point is your water pH level and the type of soil you're starting in. They don't need and shouldn't get any nutrients yet - so make sure your soil doesn't have any slow-release or added nutes... I've seen some really weird looking seedlings and yours aren't really too bad actually - the uneven growth could be due to your 'bagseed' genetics, but as long as they're green and healthy, I wouldn't worry about deformaties at this point.

 

[Three]

From the pictures, it's probably too soon to tell for sure if there's even a problem, but a few things that could cause issues at this point is your water pH level and the type of soil you're starting in. They don't need and shouldn't get any nutrients yet - so make sure your soil doesn't have any slow-release or added nutes... I've seen some really weird looking seedlings and yours aren't really too bad actually - the uneven growth could be due to your 'bagseed' genetics, but as long as they're green and healthy, I wouldn't worry about deformaties at this point.

Which Ph level would you recomend? and how much of a fluctuaction should I allow?
Basically, I've kept in the range of 6.8 to 7.4 is that too much of a fluctuation? what do you think about the photo-period? Right now, I'm keeping them on 24hours... when do you suggest I change them, and would I (should I) be changing them to 18/6? I don't want this plant getting very big at all. I'd like to maximize my yield, while keeping the plant as small, and as healthy as possible. Sorry for having all these nube questions, but this is my absolute first grow that has made it this far. Im doing my best not to be over anxious and over water, or any of the other first timer mistakes. Although my grow op right now is extremely cheap, and will probably always be limited by money, i do plan to spend as much as possible on the things I really need.
Also, as for the pH, is there anything other than pH up and down that I could use as an alternative. Like things I already have around the house.
I really appreciate all of your help so far, I hope this all goes well.
Thanks again for your responses in advance...

 

[djruiner]

agreed with the others..they look great so far..nothing too abnormal yet....and that blister thing..if your talking about whats on the very first smaller leaves that grows in..thats normal also..its the membrane from the inside of the shell..sometimes it dont stick to the seeds shell and sticks to the first leaf...normal...and those leaves will be gone after 2-3 weeks anyways..but looking good so far..keep up the good work

 

[Dayzt]

Which Ph level would you recomend? and how much of a fluctuaction should I allow?
Basically, I've kept in the range of 6.8 to 7.4 is that too much of a fluctuation? what do you think about the photo-period? Right now, I'm keeping them on 24hours... when do you suggest I change them, and would I (should I) be changing them to 18/6? I don't want this plant getting very big at all. I'd like to maximize my yield, while keeping the plant as small, and as healthy as possible. Sorry for having all these nube questions, but this is my absolute first grow that has made it this far. Im doing my best not to be over anxious and over water, or any of the other first timer mistakes. Although my grow op right now is extremely cheap, and will probably always be limited by money, i do plan to spend as much as possible on the things I really need.
Also, as for the pH, is there anything other than pH up and down that I could use as an alternative. Like things I already have around the house.
I really appreciate all of your help so far, I hope this all goes well.
Thanks again for your responses in advance...

You're very welcome 3 - I'm happy to share any knowledge and help you out in any way that I can. I started out on here too, and have learned more than I ever thought I could from the RIU forums!

pH

It sounds like you'll want to bring your pH level down a bit more. I don't have a meter for my grows but I use the fish-tank water test kit for mine where you take a sample and put in the special solution, then shake it up and look for a yellowish result to know I'm in the 6.0 range. Most info on this will advise you to stay around the 5.8 pH mark as this is will allow for optimal uptake of nutrients - but that becomes more important of course once you start feeding them. At this point you don't need to use any nutrients - wait until they're about 3 weeks old before starting them on any nutes, especially in soil - hydro setups are more finicky as they rely on the water quality right from when there's a tap root started. If you have a pH tester, you'll want to check the water pH before using it each time to make sure it's in the 5.7 to 6.2-ish range - your plants will thank you for it by staying nice and green!

Lighting cycle

For lighting, I've had great success with just staying with 24 hr light for the veg cycle. If your power-bill is a concern then you can change that to 18/6 (on/off) but this means you'll need to ensure you have a light-tight veg area so your dark cycle is COMPLETELY dark. If you're using the same grow area for flowering, you'll be needing to have that setup later on anyway so in that case 18/6 shouldn't be a problem.. I've done it both ways but for me it's a hassle to use the 18/6 in veg because my 'veg chamber' is my spare bathroom tub!...lol. I have a 400w MH light hanging from the shower-curtain rod positioned right over the white tub in order to get the benefits of the white reflective walls and the convenience of my smaller pots to drain excess water easily. Initially I had that bathroom 'light-tight' and ran an 18/6 cycle, but then we couldn't use the bathroom during certain times of the day which became annoying...lol.

Plant height - veg to flower

As far as space (height) goes, I've let mine go as much as 12 inches tall before moving them to flower. It can take as little as 4 weeks to reach that height or as much as 6-8 weeks for some strains and/or growing conditions. I haven't really noticed that 24 hrs of light in veg makes that much of a difference in how long it takes to veg to that height - but that's how mine have grown with my setup. The bathroom veg area doesn't get much fresh-air in, so that could attribute some slower growth for that cycle as well. I've seen some growers on here that are consistently ready to move from veg to flower after 4 weeks or as little as 3 weeks - these cases are most of the time due to starting from clones though. Starting from seed takes a bit longer but you do end up with a stronger plant in the end. The strains I've grown have sometimes even started to show sex at the 4-5 week mark which makes it more tempting to put them into flower, but keep in mind that your plants WILL double in size during the first 2-3 weeks of flowering, so if you have a height restriction, you'll want to consider how big your flowering pots are plus the veg size of your plant and then add another amount of the plant size to gauge when to move into flowering.

Water

For watering, the best method I've found for veg (in soil) is to keep an eye on the weight of the pots. You can tell if you need to water more by how heavy the pot is. Lift it up after you do your watering and then check the weight each day to determine if you need to give more water. If you see leaves starting to droop, don't worry - that could be a sign of either under OR over-watering. Go by the weight - lift the pot when you know it's dry to get a feel for how heavy it is with just the dry soil and then again after you water to compare. I have a small fan blowing across my plant tops which consequently dries out the top inch or so of soil in my pots - this is great to build your plant strength and will build thicker stems that they'll need later on when you have heavy buds to support - but again, lift the pots every few days to determine if they need more water yet or not. Some strains actually 'like' to dry out good before getting more water. Remember, too much water is more often worse than too little - if you water during veg more often than once every 3 days, you're likely to be (a) watering too much, (b) not using enough perlite in your soil (to retain moisture).

pH adjust

As for adjusting pH on the 'cheap'... well there are a few ways to do that - I've seen a few posts on this site with some suggestions... but because it's a fairly important thing, I'd just visit your local gardening shop and get a small container of pH down. It's only about 5-6 dollars for the small containers and it's vital to your grow. From the sound of it, you have fairly 'alkaline' water so you shouldn't have to get any of the pH up solution, just adjust it down to 5.8 and if you happen to go too low, just add more water. I've found that if I leave my 'tap water' sit out for about a day, it burns off a lot of the crap in the water and is then easier to adjust and may even come down a bit from 7.0 to 6.8ish in a day.

I have to say - I really enjoy being able to share this information with you - it actually helps remind me of some things that I sometimes take 'for granted' in my grows since starting. Sometimes it's the simple things that you don't address and fixing these issues early on can pay in dividends later on in the grow. Please feel free to keep asking any questions you have and I'll do my best to help out or point you in the right direction!

Cheers and happy growing!

 

[Three]

You're very welcome 3 - I'm happy to share any knowledge and help you out in any way that I can. I started out on here too, and have learned more than I ever thought I could from the RIU forums!

pH

It sounds like you'll want to bring your pH level down a bit more. I don't have a meter for my grows but I use the fish-tank water test kit for mine where you take a sample and put in the special solution, then shake it up and look for a yellowish result to know I'm in the 6.0 range. Most info on this will advise you to stay around the 5.8 pH mark as this is will allow for optimal uptake of nutrients - but that becomes more important of course once you start feeding them. At this point you don't need to use any nutrients - wait until they're about 3 weeks old before starting them on any nutes, especially in soil - hydro setups are more finicky as they rely on the water quality right from when there's a tap root started. If you have a pH tester, you'll want to check the water pH before using it each time to make sure it's in the 5.7 to 6.2-ish range - your plants will thank you for it by staying nice and green!

Lighting cycle

For lighting, I've had great success with just staying with 24 hr light for the veg cycle. If your power-bill is a concern then you can change that to 18/6 (on/off) but this means you'll need to ensure you have a light-tight veg area so your dark cycle is COMPLETELY dark. If you're using the same grow area for flowering, you'll be needing to have that setup later on anyway so in that case 18/6 shouldn't be a problem.. I've done it both ways but for me it's a hassle to use the 18/6 in veg because my 'veg chamber' is my spare bathroom tub!...lol. I have a 400w MH light hanging from the shower-curtain rod positioned right over the white tub in order to get the benefits of the white reflective walls and the convenience of my smaller pots to drain excess water easily. Initially I had that bathroom 'light-tight' and ran an 18/6 cycle, but then we couldn't use the bathroom during certain times of the day which became annoying...lol.

Plant height - veg to flower

As far as space (height) goes, I've let mine go as much as 12 inches tall before moving them to flower. It can take as little as 4 weeks to reach that height or as much as 6-8 weeks for some strains and/or growing conditions. I haven't really noticed that 24 hrs of light in veg makes that much of a difference in how long it takes to veg to that height - but that's how mine have grown with my setup. The bathroom veg area doesn't get much fresh-air in, so that could attribute some slower growth for that cycle as well. I've seen some growers on here that are consistently ready to move from veg to flower after 4 weeks or as little as 3 weeks - these cases are most of the time due to starting from clones though. Starting from seed takes a bit longer but you do end up with a stronger plant in the end. The strains I've grown have sometimes even started to show sex at the 4-5 week mark which makes it more tempting to put them into flower, but keep in mind that your plants WILL double in size during the first 2-3 weeks of flowering, so if you have a height restriction, you'll want to consider how big your flowering pots are plus the veg size of your plant and then add another amount of the plant size to gauge when to move into flowering.

Water

For watering, the best method I've found for veg (in soil) is to keep an eye on the weight of the pots. You can tell if you need to water more by how heavy the pot is. Lift it up after you do your watering and then check the weight each day to determine if you need to give more water. If you see leaves starting to droop, don't worry - that could be a sign of either under OR over-watering. Go by the weight - lift the pot when you know it's dry to get a feel for how heavy it is with just the dry soil and then again after you water to compare. I have a small fan blowing across my plant tops which consequently dries out the top inch or so of soil in my pots - this is great to build your plant strength and will build thicker stems that they'll need later on when you have heavy buds to support - but again, lift the pots every few days to determine if they need more water yet or not. Some strains actually 'like' to dry out good before getting more water. Remember, too much water is more often worse than too little - if you water during veg more often than once every 3 days, you're likely to be (a) watering too much, (b) not using enough perlite in your soil (to retain moisture).

pH adjust

As for adjusting pH on the 'cheap'... well there are a few ways to do that - I've seen a few posts on this site with some suggestions... but because it's a fairly important thing, I'd just visit your local gardening shop and get a small container of pH down. It's only about 5-6 dollars for the small containers and it's vital to your grow. From the sound of it, you have fairly 'alkaline' water so you shouldn't have to get any of the pH up solution, just adjust it down to 5.8 and if you happen to go too low, just add more water. I've found that if I leave my 'tap water' sit out for about a day, it burns off a lot of the crap in the water and is then easier to adjust and may even come down a bit from 7.0 to 6.8ish in a day.

I have to say - I really enjoy being able to share this information with you - it actually helps remind me of some things that I sometimes take 'for granted' in my grows since starting. Sometimes it's the simple things that you don't address and fixing these issues early on can pay in dividends later on in the grow. Please feel free to keep asking any questions you have and I'll do my best to help out or point you in the right direction!

Cheers and happy growing!

I transplanted lastnight into a 3L pot. This morning the first set of leaves that grew are extremely droopy. Could this be because of the transplanting I did?
I made sure my Soil/perlite mix was a good adequete mix, but I did however notice that my potting soil mix does release nutes... My plant is about 2 weeks old now, do you think this is too soon? and could this even be the cause of the droopiness of the leaves?
I made sure to water after transplanting until it starting coming out of the drain holes, so hopefully its not an over watering thing. What do you think?

I really appreciate all of your information you've provided me. I checked out youre two grow op's, they look amazing. Hopefully one day I'll be on your level of growing.

I just placed my first order from attitude, and will hopefully receive the seeds within 2 weeks like they say.
Is there anything you can think of that I should make sure to do when I receive them to make sure they are always good, and dont go bad?

What is your method for germination? I've tried a couple different ways, and don't know which one I've had more success with, because until my seeds from attitude come, All I've been using is some shitty bag seeds.

I'll post pics of my droopy plants later for everyones opinions after visually seeing it.

Thanks a million.

 

[Three]

These are the new pictures I just took. Again, this plant is now about 2 weeks old. It's newly transplanted into it's new 3L pot.

Somethings I've noticed about the plant, and it's kind of worrying me, but im not going to do anything different and see what happens if I wait it out.
- One thing is the one of the set of leaves on top of being a little droopy, there is also a change in color on the leaf itself. It has what I would consider a dark green spot in the middle of the leaf, with the outside of the leaf having a more light green color.
There seems to be many leafs starting to sprout up, which you hould be able to see in the pictures... their tiny, but if you look you'll see them.

- The same leaf that has the color issue, also has rigged edges on one side, but on the other it seems to be pretty straight with no ridges at all, which again you can probably see in the pictures.

- There is also a very slight change of color (into a reddish color) at the very beginning of the leaf down to the main stem... very hard to tell, I can hardly see the color in only one of the pictures I'm uploading.

Does anyone have a good recommendation on where to go online to purchase a mH or hps light & ballast?
I only need a 150w for my grow op, but was wondering what price range i'd be looking at and where online are the best shops.

Let me know what you all think.

 

[socaliboy]

Looks fine dude, probably and indica. Would'nt worry bro, all plants look a little whack when their young, I mean look at babies lol.

Forgot to add: If it is looking a little red/purplish, the temps could be a little low.

 

[manditroy]

Looking pretty good so far... You mentioned you were hoping to keep the plants on the shorter side, so I thought you might want to read up on topping for multiple colas. I used the info from Uncle Ben's thread and it worked perfectly for me. Your plants will be shorter than single cola plants, but bushier and likely higher outputs too. Take some time to read at least the first few pages, and you will learn plenty of useful information. Good Luck!

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/151706-uncle-bens-topping-technique-get.html

 

[Three]

Thanks bro. I will definitely read up on topping. I have about a foot and a half (maybe a little over) for my height limits... so bushier will definitely be the way I'm looking to go.
Thanks again!

 

[Three]

More pictures...
There has been plenty of growth but im still a little worried about the darker color green of the leaves.
the newly growing leaves seem to be alot lighter of a green than the others.
I read somewhere that this could be a potassium deficiency... Considering I have not used any nutes as of yet, im kind of worried..
Obviously with this being my first grow, I'm wanting to do anything I can to fix it.
I guess the worst part of this being I don't even remember the day I planted the plant. Mainly because of me having no success at all in my last attempts to germinate a seed and have it actually grow to anything...

So I guess here is my next question...
Anyone have any idea how old my plant is?
Now thats probably the best nube question out there.

Check out my pics and let me know if ou have any comments or suggestions.

 

[K21701]

Plant looks great.... sit back, relax and enjoy....
If you want to keep it low and bushy read up on LST and use it along with topping for maximum yield...
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/6834-how-lst-low-stress-training.html

 

[Three]

Wow, that looks difficult. Definitely seems like LST will be something I want to try, but definitely not on my first grow. I totally appreciate the extra info. Keep checking back for more pictures and let me know if you notice anything I should be aware of.

Thanks again.

 

[K21701]

It looks harder than it is...Check out my grows in my signature....first grow has some pics of LST....was done a little late but it gets the job done....my hempy bucket grow is just starting and I am planning on LST that from the start...hop aboard and join the ride!!!

 

[Three]

So does anyone want to take a stab at the age of my plants? im thinking their a little over 2 weeks... but im not sure... and I'm sure there is no real good accurate way of being able to tell the age.
Basically, I'm wanting to know so that I know when a good time to start my nutes.
Any answers are appreciated.

Thanks again

 

[bird mcbride]

So does anyone want to take a stab at the age of my plants? im thinking their a little over 2 weeks... but im not sure... and I'm sure there is no real good accurate way of being able to tell the age.
Basically, I'm wanting to know so that I know when a good time to start my nutes.
Any answers are appreciated.

Thanks again

If you know that your soil isn't prefertilized you can start a weak solution of ferts right away. I go 1/6 of what's recommended for dirt on everything.

 

[Three]

Well, I came home today, and looked at my plant. it seems kind of droopy, so i immediately watered it (it had been 4 days). I have noticed some things that im not real sure of... I'm almost sure if it's not something im doing wrong, it's probably the low quality bad seed I used.
One thing I noticed is the stem is noticeably thicker from the two seedling "flowers" (I guess they're called) up... So basically, from the Soil to the first "Flowers" (the ones that arent the flowers and fall off) the stem is pretty thin, or should I say alot thinner than the stem after those thingamajigs. Could this be a problem I need to resolve? and what is needed? I'm almost asuming it's just due to my plant being still relatively young, or because of the low quality bag seed itself.

The other issue, is very similar to the first. the stems almost seem like they may not be strong enough to hold the leaves that are starting to grow off of another stem.
Is this a fairly common problem? is it easily resolved by having some sort of post to put next to the plant that keeps it up?
Im thinking my problem could be due to poor lighting as well. Im ashamed of the ghetto grow op I have going. One 43w 18" flourescent tube and a single 43w cfl. I'm wanting to get a couple more lights tomorrow, but am really not able to buy a HPS or mH bulb and ballast setup as of yet.
What type of bulbs have you used that are cheap, and what tyype of recommendations would you make in my situation as far as purchasing more lighting?
I'm pretty much limited to the 18" tube size due to my space. should I try to get more tube lights or more cfl type lights?

I appreciate any information that you think I could advantage from.
Im hoping to receive my seeds from Attitude tomorrow or saturday, Which on another side note, is one thing im really nervous about. I live in ky, so needless to say im really, really nervous...


WOW.... I somehow burned my plant with my light... I didnt get pictures of that, because It just happened and i've already taken the pictures of it today... I may post a picture of the burn tomorrow... is there anything any of you can recommend I do? (other than not keep any light that close to my baby...) it's just the very end tip of one of my oldest grown leaves... I've heard this normally isnt a big deal, but wanted to ask anyways...

Well, that pretty much ruined my night... im done typing... but let me know if you recomment I do something.. Open to all suggestions.

 

[K21701]

That last pic has a lot of stretch...keep lights within an inch or two and I would put some down low and pointing up. Also you need some air circulation for a strong stem so it can support all those fan leaves she will get...keep a small oscillating fan on low...that will help make a strong stem just like the wind does for outdoor growers. No big deal about the burned tip...happens to us all.

 

[Three]

Well I purchased some more lighting for my baby. I bought another 18" flourescent light, and another lamp for CFL. Im wanting another 18" flour.
to give everyone a vision of my grow area... it's in the closet, within side of a HUGE Rubbermaid tote that is stood on its side so that the top is like the door. It measures (when it's set up) about 4 feet tall, 2 1/2ft deep, and about 2 1/2ft wide aswell. I have one flourescent hanging down within under an inch of the plant (it generates absolutely no heat).
I have a fan in the back of the tote blowing air around the area, as well as two cutouts on each side of the tote that has 2 computer fans in each of the cutouts for added ventilation. I have one 18" mounted to the side wall right next to the plant that is vertical so that the light reaches the bottom to the top. I then have the 2 23W CFL's on the opposite side of the plant and one is kind of pointed towards a very small node that I've seen for a couple days but hadnt grew at all. I do rotate the plant abot every 8 hours or so.
About three times a day, I turn the fan off for around 15-20 minutes and do the Vinegar and baking soda trick to produce extra oxygen for the plant... Has anyone done this? and what are your opinions on it? is it pointless? or is it a relatively cheap (not necessarily good) way of getting your plant extra O2? I've seen things on this as a good alternative, but i'd like to know how many of you use this type of method.

On another note, I'm pretty sure that the Main stem is bent maybe 15 Degrees from the point where the plant actually started splitting and growing it's nodes (if that makes sense).


Once again, any information or tips are greatly appreciated and always welcomed.
I may post pics later.

Thanks again, Happy growing everyone.
Birthday is 8 days away, I hope my attitude seeds come before then...

 

[Three]

Well, I took some pictures today. It's looking pretty good since I've added the extra lights.. To me, some of the newly formed leaves see very droopy, and wrinkley looking.. if that word is a good description.
I'm hoping this is relatively normal...
I'm keeping a grow log now to help myself remember what I do, and when I do it. which should be a good thing for me to be doing.
Although there is a very noticeable difference in weight after 3 days of not watering my plant, im still a little worried that im watering it before it's completely dry, so the roots can air out and get the Oxygen thats needed. I think im going to wait 4-5 days this time to see, apparently even if I wait too long, it's better than not waiting long enough. I keep a very close eye on my plant at multiple times throughout the day so I'm sure If it got worse I'd notice it relatively soon.
Either way, here are my pictures... let me know what you all think....