True Aeroponics system Design

[crimsonangel]

I came up with this design a few months back sketched them out and lost them, now that I found them i'd like some feed back on them.

The entire design is all self contained and able to be easily regulated. I know that a TRUE aeroponics system doesn't use a spray but a fine mist of only 5-50 microns thus fog units will be used. The system holds 4 plants and allows the roots around 2 feet to hang before entering and elbow then a T and finally a second T which drains into a reservoir. the reservoir houses a pump that takes the water up into another T via a thin pipe and a valve that blocks and releases passage into the central fog housing, the other part of the T goes up further with another valve that blocks and opens passage to 2 water feed rails that release into a single mister in each main pipe.

The reason for this design is for in early stages of growth I feel a water mister would work better than a fogger at saturating the rockwool with water untill the roots grew to a certain length, then the valves can be switched for the water feed to empty into the fogger housing instead of the water feed rails which will feed the fog into exhaust pipes and empty the fog into the tubes where they can eventually drain back to the reservoir. Fog housing also has an overflow tube to keep the water at the perfect level.

 

[Mike Young]

I like the design. Vey innovative. You may want to research the results people have gotten from fog modules though. I've heard many times over that fog alone is not gonna give you the greatest results, as it doesn't carry nutrients very well. It makes a nice supplement, but I wouldn't use it without some other form of nute delivery. Don't take my word for it, there may be some decent results out there, but from what I've gathered, many have had to re-build because fog alone isn't very affective. Not to mention those foggers can be pretty un-reliable. I really like the design though. Keep at it man!

 

[crimsonangel]

I like the design. Vey innovative. You may want to research the results people have gotten from fog modules though. I've heard many times over that fog alone is not gonna give you the greatest results, as it doesn't carry nutrients very well. It makes a nice supplement, but I wouldn't use it without some other form of nute delivery. Don't take my word for it, there may be some decent results out there, but from what I've gathered, many have had to re-build because fog alone isn't very affective. Not to mention those foggers can be pretty un-reliable. I really like the design though. Keep at it man!

Hmm if the fog modules don't supply sufficient delivery of nutes than I may have a problem, since the entire design was based around it. I mean there is the single mister in each grow tube however using that solely, would defeat the purpose of a True Aeroponics system for keeping the water droplets between 5-50 microns. The fog housing would hold 4 fog modules. From what I've read on foggers i've received mixed reviews of some amazing results others with only ok results.

 

[Mike Young]

Despite what you may read, fog isn't aeroponics. It's fogponics. True aeroponics uses high pressure (up to 1000 psi or more) to deliver a fine mist.

If each site has a single mister, then you're fine. Are they putting out a decent mist? Honestly, if you want true aero, I'd ditch the fog all together and get you a decent diaphram pump, do some trolling around the net to see how people are using these pumps, and decide how deep into the rabbit hole you wanna go. There is a decent amount on this site (although most people seem to be fine with hydro, or low pressure aero) to give you an idea of what ya need to get started. I like the routing of your tubes in conjunction with your res. Don't change that!

Here's a vid of my setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBTpVrVDqgY This is the beginning of the rabbit hole.

 

[Atomizer]

You only need 3 things for true aero, correct droplet size, control and space. 1000psi isn`t necessary

 

[crimsonangel]

You only need 3 things for true aero, correct droplet size, control and space. 1000psi isn`t necessary

Thats what I thought. I know using foggers is called fogponics but I read it was a branch of aeroponics like NFT is a branch of hydroponics. As long as the droplets were of correct size it was considered aeroponics.

As for my system design, Would 4 foggers be sufficient to grow 4 plants?

 

[crimsonangel]

Despite what you may read, fog isn't aeroponics. It's fogponics. True aeroponics uses high pressure (up to 1000 psi or more) to deliver a fine mist.

If each site has a single mister, then you're fine. Are they putting out a decent mist? Honestly, if you want true aero, I'd ditch the fog all together and get you a decent diaphram pump, do some trolling around the net to see how people are using these pumps, and decide how deep into the rabbit hole you wanna go. There is a decent amount on this site (although most people seem to be fine with hydro, or low pressure aero) to give you an idea of what ya need to get started. I like the routing of your tubes in conjunction with your res. Don't change that!

Here's a vid of my setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBTpVrVDqgY This is the beginning of the rabbit hole.

I like your design, however the high pressure pump is a bit too noisy for me and since the mist generated by the foggers is between 5 and 50 microns it should work as a true aeroponics system quite well. With the tubes being 4 inches wide and 2 feet of drop for the roots theres plenty of the room for the roots to grow and just the right amount of room for the fog to work without dissipating

 

[Atomizer]

Droplets produced by ultrasonic foggers are usually below 5 microns which is too small. The majority want to be in the range of 30-80 microns with nothing below 5.
4" pipe and ultrasonic foggers won`t give you the results you`re expecting.

 

[Bob Smith]

Nice video Mike, just subscribed to you.

My setup should be rocking and rolling in a few days, just waiting on my pump to get delivered - building a silencer box for it today.

EDIT: BTW Mike, that pump has no issue with vertical priming, huh? Was hesitant about the claims of vertical priming, but it looks like yours does okay - is that about 1.5'?

 

[Mike Young]

1.5 is about right. It claims 8', but I'd never wanna rely on it for that. Yeah, my pump runs 15 on/off. Just under 50 times per day. Doesn't seem to have any issues yet. Silencer is a good idea. I could see your 150 psi being a tad louder than mine. I don't have to tell you to take pics/vid. You're pretty good at that. Get this beast done!

Crimson. If not me, listen to atomizer.

 

[crimsonangel]

Ok i've made a few revisions to my design which incorporate the pipes that deliver the fog to the individual tubes, they now deliver fog from the top of the tube in the downward direction so gravity can draw it downward. Also a HIGH CFM fan will be placed on top of the fog unit housing to draw in air at a high velocity thus pressurizing the system to a certain degree, which will allow the fog to penetrate the root system more easily.

I have read deeper into aeroponics, it has two subcategory which include ultrasonic foggers and pressurized pumps to deliver water in the lower micron range. From what i've read NASA uses the ultrasonic foggers, however I cant seem to find any direct link to NASA articles.

Ive also scoured multiple forums which seem to have a split view on the subject, where some people say foggers simply will not do while others swear by them. There is also an incredible lack of information on any grows using solely foggers and not that much info on using pressurized units.

So I've decided that I will test this out and see exactly how well it performs. I will create a grow journal when I begin and will record all data of growth, nutrient temp, PH, PPM, etc on a daily basis. Ive included my final designs for the system and plan on beginning in no more than a months time.

The strains I will be growing will include femanized white widow and femanized super lemon haze. Any feedback I can get would be helpful.

Also on a side note I was wondering the effects of having oxygen directly injected into the system to tend to the root zone, by doing this O2 concentration would be significantly higher than atmospheric levels.

 

[Atomizer]

I wish you luck but ultimately i think you`ll find yourself running the foggers 24/7 just to provide sufficient moisture. By overfogging, the small 5 micron droplets combine (colesce) to form larger droplets of water on the root surfaces.
The recommended droplet range for aero is 30-80 microns, a 5 micron droplet contains 216x and 4100x less water respectively.
By the time you have sufficient liquid airbourne in 5 micron fog form, the chamber will be oversaturated with small droplets (billions of them) and due to sheer numbers they will begin to colesce.
I hope you do well but make sure you have a backup plan for your girls in case they need it.

 

[Serapis]

I'm very interested in this as well. I'm wondering if nutrient can be carried in the fog created ultrasonically. I'm currently running my cloner with a fogger in a float, 5 gal bucket, 350 ppm.

Subed...

 

[rosecitypapa]

Nice vid Mike, how did you create the bottom of those 'pots'?

Crimsonangel, if this is your only grow, you should consider having a backup form of nutrient delivery. I experimented with a fogger in a LPA and found it to helpful in stimulating the tiny lateral hairs on roots. However, my fogger corroded in time losing efficiency. Corrosion started at the 2 week mark.

 

[PetFlora]

I accidentally deleted my reply when I meant to edit it. Before I advanced to HPA, I burned up a bunch of pond foggers, and was told the discs were the problem, so I upgraded to ceramic discs, but they burned up, too. I emailed the distributor who informed me they are not designed for ~ 300+ ppm water. But you don't need more than 200 ppms (if that) for rooting clones anyway. hth

 

[Serapis]

I'm beginning to think that a fogger is best used for cloning and as a supplement to an aero set up. The fine mist encourages growth of the hair like roots and allows the roots to be bathed in oxygen without drying out between misting.

 

[Mike Young]

The bottoms of my pots are plexiglass attached with aquarium silicone. I tried to find caps, but I couldn't find any with flat bottoms. They were more rounded, and would've made it hard for the pots to stand up without some sort of bracing.

 

[Serapis]

I accidentally deleted my reply when I meant to edit it. Before I advanced to HPA, I burned up a bunch of pond foggers, and was told the discs were the problem, so I upgraded to ceramic discs, but they burned up, too. I emailed the distributor who informed me they are not designed for ~ 300+ ppm water. But you don't need more than 200 ppms (if that) for rooting clones anyway. hth

I don't add any nutes for rooting cuttings. Once they have roots and begin to yellow, it would be nice to know if nutrients can be carried in fog. I suspect the answer is no, or not very well due to micron size. I can always find out myself I guess for sure.... but surely someone knows?

 

[PetFlora]

Atomizer is a man of few words, but you can count on them. On my way to HPA (High Pressure Aero- well not so much in Atomizers mind-lol) I worked hard at getting fog to do what peeps were sayin. IMO, it's a total waste of money, time and cost me a grow.

It's funny, we have no problem understanding changing light spectrums to better duplicate spring planting and harvest sun light, but fail miserably to consider the root system needs. This is equally true of indoor soil growers. Think about what the ideal root environment is by considering what it should not be- confining, such as any tube or pipe that has less than an 18" diameter. Why?

Most 4 ft plants will develop a basketball size root system by mid-flower, when in an ideal HPA root environment, it will be fluffy, looking like cheer leader pom poms: a 2ft plant can easily have volleyball size root ball. No matter what method you choose (soil/DWC/Ebb & Flow?Aero) each root needs sufficient space to develop properly. In soil you feed from the top. In aero you feed from the bottom using a atomized mist. It is critical for this mist to float up above around and under the root mass. You know what happens when you try to squeeze 10 pounds of anything into a 5 pound bag, right? I have seen many pictures where the root system removed from 4" pvc pipe looked like a baseball bat made from spaghetti noodles. It may looks impressive, but it barely functions.

Will you get a decent yield if you don't follow best protocols? Probably, because after all you're growing a weed, but you won't get anywhere near the yield you would by paying attention the roots needs. Doing it right is no harder than doing it wrong. hth

 

[Serapis]

Not sure how a fogger could cost someone a grow.... my fogger rooted my cuttings in 5 days. You are preaching to the wrong choir Petflora, most of us in these part of the forums do care about root health.