Wisconsin Revolt

[MrDank007]

If you want freedom you have to be able to take care of yourself bottom line. I want my freedom so I take care of myself and don't blame a 'cruel world' when I fail to take care of my responsibilities. People are too dramatic, when push comes to shove people find ways to survive. Not everyone will up and decide to become a vagrant simply because most don't desire that lifestyle. It's sad to see that we are so afraid to forge a better way. Don't defend a failed system create a better way!

No no no...THAT IS UNFAIR. There is always more money and they can keep doing this forever and ever and ever....they just need to take some more money.
They need to be able to continue to bargain the budget into oblivion and have unparalleled benifit packages at the expense of the taxpayer. You obviously hate teachers!

 

[Mike Young]

If you want freedom you have to be able to take care of yourself bottom line. I want my freedom so I take care of myself and don't blame a 'cruel world' when I fail to take care of my responsibilities. People are too dramatic, when push comes to shove people find ways to survive. Not everyone will up and decide to become a vagrant simply because most don't desire that lifestyle. It's sad to see that we are so afraid to forge a better way. Don't defend a failed system create a better way!

I love how people like to throw around freedom. What is freedom exactly? I don't feel like america is free. Sorry.

[video=youtube;tTOQhPd2Xh4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTOQhPd2Xh4[/video]

 

[NoDrama]

Ummmm....my list proves that the US doesn't spend more than the rest of the Western Nations on education, you were the only claiming the US spent too much on education. My list shows they are near the bottom of the pack as far as %GDP.

No, what I claimed was that an increase of 300% in Government spending in the last 30 years hasn't made any improvements, instead we have a race to the bottom. You claim even more money will help, when exactly the opposite is what has actually been happening. Some people cannot be "A" students, no matter how much money you throw at a solution as long as you have the public purse to back it up and no one to be held accountable for failure.

 

[Coolwhip]

If you want freedom you have to be able to take care of yourself bottom line. I want my freedom so I take care of myself and don't blame a 'cruel world' when I fail to take care of my responsibilities. People are too dramatic, when push comes to shove people find ways to survive. Not everyone will up and decide to become a vagrant simply because most don't desire that lifestyle. It's sad to see that we are so afraid to forge a better way. Don't defend a failed system create a better way!

I am all for being self-sufficient, believe me. But like it or not we are stuck with the reality we have, and the reality is people rely on each other, people rely on society, we can't all just build cabins in the woods and start farming for ourselves. When you live in an urban environment and their are 10 job seekers for every job there isn't much you can do but rely on others. Just look at what happened during the Great Depression.

 

[NoDrama]

thats why we have prisons and Ohio to ship the unwanted there

LOL Ohio!! HAHA Go Buckeyes!!

 

[UncleBuck]

Dude don't insult retarded people by insinuating that they are on the same level as I am.

i said "if"

 

[Coolwhip]

No, what I claimed was that an increase of 300% in Government spending in the last 30 years hasn't made any improvements, instead we have a race to the bottom. You claim even more money will help, when exactly the opposite is what has actually been happening. Some people cannot be "A" students, no matter how much money you throw at a solution as long as you have the public purse to back it up and no one to be held accountable for failure.

This isn't about making sure every student gets an A. It is about making sure our school are equipped with the best capital and personnel to train the next generation of American's to meet the challenges of the future and provide a skilled labor force to fuel our economy. You don't get something for nothing, you don't improve our schools by cutting funding, you don't recruit better teachers by making it a less attractive career choice.

The complexity of jobs, and amount of knowledge, has expanded greatly over the last 30 years, I'd say more than 300%. Our school systems have to keep advancing and growing with society. The schools of the 1970's just won't meet the demands of the 21st century.

 

[MrDank007]

This isn't about making sure every student gets an A. It is about making sure our school are equipped with the best capital and personnel to train the next generation of American's to meet the challenges of the future and provide a skilled labor force to fuel our economy. You don't get something for nothing, you don't improve our schools by cutting funding, you don't recruit better teachers by making it a less attractive career choice.

The complexity of jobs, and amount of knowledge, has expanded greatly over the last 30 years, I'd say more than 300%. Our school systems have to keep advancing and growing with society. The schools of the 1970's just won't meet the demands of the 21st century.

So spending tax payer money on pension funds and union bureaucracy is advancing the student? Our school system peaked a long time ago...

 

[UncleBuck]

if anyone still believes this has nothing to do with an agenda of union busting bought and paid for by special interests....think again.

the dumb shit governor got duped by a prank call from who he thought was one of the koch brothers.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/02/23/audio-the-obligatory-scott-walker-prank-called-by-david-koch-impostor-clip/

so to everyone standing with gov. walker: congratulations on siding with politicians who, despite being caught red-handed, shamelessly stand by being bought and paid for by special interests.

guess the koch brothers don't want their billions of dollars in oil subsidies to go away, so they pick on those EVIL teachers first.

i guess they want the money redistributed to them, not the teachers.

they are sooooo awesome.

 

[Coolwhip]

So spending tax payer money on pension funds and union bureaucracy is advancing the student? Our school system peaked a long time ago...

If you want to recruit good teachers, you have to make it an attractive career, period.

 

[UncleBuck]

So spending tax payer money on pension funds and union bureaucracy is advancing the student? Our school system peaked a long time ago...

investing money in our educators attracts better educators.

treating our educators like walmart employees, stripping them of bargaining rights, does not attract better educators.

how do you not get this simple precept?

 

[Rob Roy]

d

this idea that the US is a welfare state is getting pretty old.

capitalism relies on pushing and shoving, pushing the competition out of the way, shoving your way to the top. you don't like it, why defend it?

the public sector has to get leaner. the TSA and DEA are completely unnecessary. the Department of Homeland Security is a joke. the IRS could use some looking at, and that beloved defense budget has to get cut. also, the USA cannot afford to be giving billions of dollars to corrupt governments and expect to get results.

these are areas that the government could start trimming immediately and chances are 'liberals' won't form much a fuss.....

but no. let's start going after educators, and the people who represent them.........

Okay time for a truth break....

It's not just a welfare state, it's a warfare state too. True FREE MARKET capitalism relies on bringing customers value so that they can make a beneficial decision to purchase your goods or services or not. There is no coercion, or pushing or shoving if the consumer is free to bring his business to your competitor across the street. Statism / fascism relies on "pushing and shoving" to fund itself thru involuntary means.

 

[UncleBuck]

d

Okay time for a truth break....

It's not just a welfare state, it's a warfare state too. True FREE MARKET capitalism relies on bringing customers value so that they can make a beneficial decision to purchase your goods or services or not. There is no coercion, or pushing or shoving if the consumer is free to bring his business to your competitor across the street. Statism / fascism relies on "pushing and shoving" to fund itself thru involuntary means.

let's say the roads work that way.

there is only one road in front of my house.

what if they charged me a ridiculous premium to drive on that road every time i needed to go to the store to buy eggs?

i'd be stuck.

so much for that idea. only took one counterexample.

 

[MrDank007]

investing money in our educators attracts better educators.

treating our educators like walmart employees, stripping them of bargaining rights, does not attract better educators.

how do you not get this simple precept?[/QU

The unions keep the shitty teachers from getting fired. The absurd benifits package and collective bargaining has not resulted in higher education PERIOD. We all see that.
You pay a teacher a decent wage and qualify them. What is so fucking hard about that? You think if we don't pony up to the unions and pay into absurd pension plans noone is going to teach? Bullshit. You think it's going to have adverse effect on Johnny's 11th grade chemistry class...Bullshit.

We need a bunch wasteful scumbag mafia thugs to hold hands on their behalf. If you don't think union leaders aren't rolling in dough and it for themselves...then all you liberals need to put down the pipe

 

[Coolwhip]

In every other industry that has gone from a majority of its workers being unionized, to a majority being non-unionized(thanks to union busting by conservatives over the past 30 years) compensation has fallen, every single one, you won't find one industry where compensation has increased as unionization fell. Why do you think this won't happen with teachers?

Hell, before the bargaining rights became an issue the conservatives were already demanding cuts in compensation AND the union agreed to them. BUT if there are no bargaining rights there is nothing to stop from teacher compensation from falling to unacceptable levels. Once compensation falls low enough the ONLY people who will become teachers are people who can't get a job ANYWHERE else, is that how you want it to be?

If you want your politicians to bargain for different policies, FINE, tell them to do that. But stripping the union of bargaining rights isn't the same as changing policy regarding teacher termination. And teachers get little pay, their benefits package isn't absurd, they SHOULD have good healthcare(better than most of them do). And their pensions aren't huge and they have to work a long time to get it.

 

[Mike Young]

Not all unions have mob ties. Why do members of unions show support for their union? Are they ALL scumbags trying to take advantage of the system? I don't think so. If so, they could go do that in another field that would be more lucrative. There are scumbags, and there are teachers. I think the teachers outnumber the scumbags.

 

[UncleBuck]

The unions keep the shitty teachers from getting fired. The absurd benifits package and collective bargaining has not resulted in higher education PERIOD. We all see that.

good benefits and the ability to negotiate are not good incentives to attract educators?

well fuck me running.

they must be holding out for shitty benefit packages and the ability to have the terms of their professional services be dictated to them

...a bunch wasteful scumbag mafia thugs...

that description more aptly fits the billionaire oil tycoons who have the governor bought and paid for. in their back pocket. on strings, making him dance.

there is no other way to see it.

the people you call 'wasteful scumbag mafia thugs' have used their clout to....CONCEDE EVERY FINANCIAL DEMAND!!!! what a bunch of thugs!!!!!

c'mon man, don't be that stupid.

 

[MrDank007]

Everything the unions are involved in has turned to doo doo. It's called the turd finger. And it's usually at the expense of the tax payer.

Screw it. If you can't beat em...join em. I want all of yall to pay me 90% of what I'm making for life when I retire. I'll just join the rest and pray it doesn't blow up before I die. Fuck future generations....>I WANT MY SLICE OF THE PIE

 

[NoDrama]

If you want to recruit good teachers, you have to make it an attractive career, period.

And the only attractive things are "Mo' Money! Mo' Money! Mo' Money" Right?

[video=youtube;7jukQX2pl2Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jukQX2pl2Q[/video]

 

[NoDrama]

And their pensions aren't huge and they have to work a long time to get it.

You just make this stuff up don't you? Wisconsin Teachers pensions provide an average of $54,000 a year. Someone with 35 years in will receive 90% of their last years pay as a yearly pension. I know many many people who worked 50 or 60 years and receive 0% and have to rely on SS and Family to make ends meet.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/18/day-of-reckoning-for-unionized-teachers-pensions/