Libya: No Fly Zone is a Go! International Effort and No Troops on the Ground

redivider

Well-Known Member
Aren't we kinda broke? Aren't our forces already committed on 2 fronts? Didn't people scream about the "Coalition" invasion of Iraq? Isn't this kinda similar, only Gaddafi is virtually ZERO threat to us, whereas Saddam had gassed the Kurds, had invaded another sovereign nation without provocation, had hindered UN inspectors for years? I could go on, but in a nutshell, that's why not.............IMO, of course.;-)


All that "expensive equipment" is going to injure & kill a lot of people too. :sad:
iraq wasn't a threat to us. they were a sort of threat to Israel. they didn't have a viable navy, an antiquated air force, an understaffed and under funded standing army, and zero long-range capabilities....

there is nothing similar about the two except that it's in the middle east. . we invaded iraq because he was trying to develop weapons of mass destruction. it also turned out to be false. they found cold-war era remnants of chemical weapons which were in such poor condition that weaponizing would've been virtually impossible. you can argue about sadam's brutality but when he was in charge the religious fanatics were kept in check. how many suicide bombings did you hear about under sadam???? would you dare go to a market in iraq now?????

we are helping the international community, under france's leadership, to establish a no-fly zone. no full-on invasion... the people of Lybia revolted against their leader in swarms, the protests took over more than half the country, and were only driven back by ruthless targeting by this madman. the people of lybia don't want gadaffi there. they're just keeping their mouths shut b/c if not fire would rain down.....

yeah, exactly the same scenario right????
 

DrFever

New Member
If your numbers are right their bad, but its actually even worse because we are not really paying the 138$ in full each month, we are actually taking on that debt, because whatever high amount tax payers are paying each month we are not close to covering our expenses so these things serve to put us even further into debt
your right thats not including libya war now for once can usa just sit back and say fck it geezes christ this pisses me off WORRY about your own backyard and people get us back on track

and like this where in the Constitution does it say our armed forces are required to police the world?
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
If your numbers are right their bad, but its actually even worse because we are not really paying the 138$ in full each month, we are actually taking on that debt, because whatever high amount tax payers are paying each month we are not close to covering our expenses so these things serve to put us even further into debt
you can thank military contracts to private corporations. cost-plus profit at a rate that we pay companies 140% of their costs. they have zero incentive to keep costs down.
the more expensive the project, the larger their profit.

and if the rich would just put up their share, then we wouldn't be incurring in 225 dollars per year per person in debt in the US.... the impact on that little figure would be NOTICEABLE........:leaf::leaf:
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
Why doesn't Gaddafi have a better army? why didn't he spent his oil money to get a army like saudi arabia did? he doesn't seem to be capable of mounting any defense.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
Why doesn't Gaddafi have a better army? why didn't he spent his oil money to get a army like saudi arabia did? he doesn't seem to be capable of mounting any defense.
b/c he did not want any opportunistic general to overthrow him.....
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
iraq wasn't a threat to us. they were a sort of threat to Israel. they didn't have a viable navy, an antiquated air force, an understaffed and under funded standing army, and zero long-range capabilities....

there is nothing similar about the two except that it's in the middle east. . we invaded iraq because he was trying to develop weapons of mass destruction. it also turned out to be false. they found cold-war era remnants of chemical weapons which were in such poor condition that weaponizing would've been virtually impossible. you can argue about sadam's brutality but when he was in charge the religious fanatics were kept in check. how many suicide bombings did you hear about under sadam???? would you dare go to a market in iraq now?????

we are helping the international community, under france's leadership, to establish a no-fly zone. no full-on invasion... the people of Lybia revolted against their leader in swarms, the protests took over more than half the country, and were only driven back by ruthless targeting by this madman. the people of lybia don't want gadaffi there. they're just keeping their mouths shut b/c if not fire would rain down.....

yeah, exactly the same scenario right????
Bravo redivider!!!!!!:clap:

You've got a real knack for putting words into people's mouths. I never said anything about it being "exactly the same scenario" nor did I imply such a thing. That's absurd! What I said was "Isn't this kinda similar?". You can go back and check the post. I also didn't say Saddam was a threat to us. I gave specific examples of what Saddam had done in violation of just about every convention and treaty on the planet by his use of chemical weapons in the 80's. We know there was a program, and we knew he had weapons at some point. He used them on his own people! He invaded his neighbor and threatened an invasion into Saudi Arabia. I remember it well.........I was there...........for months! He kicked out UN inspectors, multiple times! He violated the no fly zones on an almost weekly basis for years! Look, I'm not going to continue the history lesson because I think everybody knows what Saddam did. Gaddafi isn't even in the same league as Saddam was! This is a civil war which has not spilled out of Libya's borders yet. If/when that happens, I may revise my position. This doesn't involve us in any way shape or form. We have too many of our own issues to be getting involved in this conflict. You go on and blindly cheerlead your progressive messiah.:dunce:
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
They didn't have the authority to do this kind of War until the Patriot Act.

The Patriot Act is a set of "uber-laws" Laws that overlay the laws we had before and grant much more police powers than the Constitution allowed for before. From what I understand.

So this is just the face of modern imperialism.
You CANNOT change or supersede the US Constitution without an AMENDMENT!!! Patriot act my fucking ass, illegal acts on behalf of oil control is what this is, plain and simple
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
We have a duty and treaty obligation to the United Nations Charter....

I cannot get over the lack of understanding most Americans have of this fact. The President also has the power to engage the military for short term actions, without declaring war. This has nothing to do with oil control and everything to do with common sense.... all any reasonable person has to do is look at the events of the preceding weeks to see that Gadhaffi forced the UN response.

And anyone that would call the President of the USA a "messiah" needs to have their motives evaluated. Supporting a president that has shown great leadership and who had the most PRODUCTIVE congressional session in recent history after years of gridlock is hardly "blind cheerleading" I'm sick of conservative BS like this. Doc, your off my list... your politics are anything but factual...
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Goddamn you are wrong alot. The president can only send the Marines into action. he has ZERO authority to start a war. Show me in the NATO treaty where it says the USA will take all military action in a Preemptive way, go ahead knock yourself out trying to find that clause. Obama is Bush Jr Jr., same policies, same actions. Same boss as the old boss except this one is spending 43 times faster than all the rest combined.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
We have a duty and treaty obligation to the United Nations Charter....

I cannot get over the lack of understanding most Americans have of this fact. The President also has the power to engage the military for short term actions, without declaring war. This has nothing to do with oil control and everything to do with common sense.... all any reasonable person has to do is look at the events of the preceding weeks to see that Gadhaffi forced the UN response.

And anyone that would call the President of the USA a "messiah" needs to have their motives evaluated. Supporting a president that has shown great leadership and who had the most PRODUCTIVE congressional session in recent history after years of gridlock is hardly "blind cheerleading" I'm sick of conservative BS like this. Doc, your off my list... your politics are anything but factual...
I'm off your list huh? Oh well, I guess I'll just have to try and manage. :sad:

Just because we CAN do something doesn't make it a good idea. Yes, I refer to Obama as the messiah when I see some of the crap spewed by the faithful. Liberals bitched and moaned about Iraq and you know it! I'm no conservative, I dislike repubs and dems equally, I just REALLY disagree with the liberal mindset and the entitlement mentality. I'm an Independent/Libertarian, just so ya know. Look man, I have a lot of friends whom I disagree with their stance on certain political issues. Doesn't mean I take them "off my list". I'm sick of liberal BS like this. lol! Politics have little to do with facts and a lot to do with opinions, that's why they call it POLITICS, so calling my politics "anything but factual"..............I guess I'll take it as a compliment. I don't blame the rich for the problems we are facing in this country. The government has it in their power to level the playing field and yet they choose not to. Why do ya think that is? It hasn't been just Republicans either. Dems are just as guilty of this crap.
As far as the "messiah" showing great leadership? Yeah, sure bro!:roll:
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
Don't worry about my list doc, you'll always be on it, even if I tend to disagree with a few of your opinions.
Appreciate that bro. That's what I love about this place. I can have disagreements with MOST people and at the end of the day it's all good. I disagree with some of your opinions as well, but I respect them AND you. Don't hate the player, hate the game! lmfao!!!!!!!:bigjoint:
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
I'm wrong a lot? LOL... no offense, but I'm mensa and currently 3 consecutive years on my University's President of Deans list....

This doesn't mean I don't make mistakes, however I'm pretty sure I'm not 'wrong a lot' as you put it.... Let's start by taking a look at a bill that was passed some time ago, giving the President sweeping powers to engage the US Military in action for a period of up to 90 days before consulting with Congress. The bill is also known as "the War Powers Resolution" It was enacted in 1973, as a way of limiting the President from engaging in long term police actions without congressional acts of war. No where in the resolution is the term 'Marines' used. In fact, the term that is used is 'US Armed Forces', meaning that once again, your rebuttal lacks any semblance of fact.

Also, to address your other points of contention, No one stated that it shall be solely the US' responsibility to engage in police actions authorized by the council. In fact, if you want to offer a fair debate, you'll go back a couple of pages and cite my post stating that we need to send an invoice for every ounce of fuel used and every missile expended. It was this thread or a similar one.

And to your spending claim, let the man finish his terms please. The previous president is already out of office and we have his tally..... His deficit spending outpaced every single president before him. In fact, his total deficit spending, outpaced all previous presidents; COMBINED.

Please feel free to let me know when I'm wrong again.... I feel like I'm up against an unarmed opponent that relies mostly on drama, despite the screen name....

Goddamn you are wrong alot. The president can only send the Marines into action. he has ZERO authority to start a war. Show me in the NATO treaty where it says the USA will take all military action in a Preemptive way, go ahead knock yourself out trying to find that clause. Obama is Bush Jr Jr., same policies, same actions. Same boss as the old boss except this one is spending 43 times faster than all the rest combined.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
I'm fed up with irresponsible conservative nicknames for our President. You can go on calling him a messiah, and blaspheming the Lord of Lords and King of Hosts all you want. I think the nickname just reflects a large amount of disrespect and I won't associate with anyone willing to do so. I respect your opinion, however it doesn't mean I need to consider you a friend. No offense, it's just personal..

You do your thing. I'm not hating or juding you. I'm mature enough to disagree with someone without "unfriending" them.:-P
 

DrFever

New Member
cmon peeps were here in politic section and its tough, one thing i learned ( when drinking is never talk politics , religion) that being said its freedom of speach
just like world war 2 the media was blind only after paramount pictures started doin stuff bout hitler being paramount pictures was owned buy jewish lad did things start to change
I for one dont like way usa does stuff when it comes to foriegn affairs and i like how obama says for the interests of usa i would really like to know what interests there talkin about as well i would like to know which country france or usa that dropped first bomb my guess is usa could this another plot to silence ( slow down ) the problem of american budget and debt load meanin lets put the most important thing on the back burner and yet start another war that we really have no money to do

is usa really any different japan attacks pearl harbour takin out ships , and manufacturing buildings of course some civilian casualtys know usa drops 2 ATOMIC BOMBS killing and no only then still today theres major effects from it is usa just as bad as saddam , or Hitler cmon even today civilians are effected from 2 bombs japan attacked in modern warfare usa went over board
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
If you'd read the news and enlighten yourself with some facts, you'd know it was the French that fired the first shot, taking out a Libyan tank, as reported by the Associated Press. The US didn't begin operations until later.

cmon peeps were here in politic section and its tough, one thing i learned ( when drinking is never talk politics , religion) that being said its freedom of speach
just like world war 2 the media was blind only after paramount pictures started doin stuff bout hitler being paramount pictures was owned buy jewish lad did things start to change
I for one dont like way usa does stuff when it comes to foriegn affairs and i like how obama says for the interests of usa i would really like to know what interests there talkin about as well i would like to know which country france or usa that dropped first bomb my guess is usa could this another plot to silence ( slow down ) the problem of american budget and debt load
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
I'm fed up with irresponsible conservative nicknames for our President. You can go on calling him a messiah, and blaspheming the Lord of Lords and King of Hosts all you want. I think the nickname just reflects a large amount of disrespect and I won't associate with anyone willing to do so. I respect your opinion, however it doesn't mean I need to consider you a friend. No offense, it's just personal..
Bro, as long as you don't personally attack me, I am in no way going to be offended, ever. It seems kind of petty to me, but again, just my opinion. Would you like to get into the nice "liberal nicknames" given to George W. Bush? I've got a link for ya if you want it! Just say the word!;-)
 
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