The Never Ending Abuse of Phosphorous (Bloom foods) to Enhance Flowering

[riddleme]

If you have money burning a hole in your pocket and you find yourself looking into all the cannabis snake oils and magic potions that are out there take a look at this,,,,,,,,,,

JR Peters will take a sample of your soil and a sample of your water and custom design a nute for you, that's right customed designed to work at peak performance in YOUR garden and the price is still cheaper than the freakin snake oils

service available here
http://www.jrpeterslab.com/

and while your there check out the library, full of great info with no myths or BS

 

[Dr Gruber]

If you have money burning a hole in your pocket and you find yourself looking into all the cannabis snake oils and magic potions that are out there take a look at this,,,,,,,,,,

JR Peters will take a sample of your soil and a sample of your water and custom design a nute for you, that's right customed designed to work at peak performance in YOUR garden and the price is still cheaper than the freakin snake oils

service available here
http://www.jrpeterslab.com/

and while your there check out the library, full of great info with no myths or BS

Thats Sweet!
Thanks Riddle..i will check that out.

 

[smoke n strum]

Hi guys, I'm thinking this is the place to ask this question. I'm at average about a month from seed, 5 weeks on one and i just started feeding my girls about 8 days ago. Last time I watered, I gave them Jack's 20-20-20 at 1/2 teaspoon per gallon and they loved it and are growing fast. I'm in veg and waiting for a few to catch up a little and plan to turn to flower the last day of march..if it matters. I grow in organic soil from a nursery which I threw a bunch of vermiculite, perlite, worm castings, and volcanic sand into. the original soil is peet based, there is a picture of the bag here.

I was planning on raising the nutes to 3/4 teaspoon per gallon when I water tonight. I'm pretty sure that would be ok as i don't want to burn them of course. I'll get pics then if anyone cares to see them. When I water, I water until a little water runs out the bottom, they are not dryed out, but the top of the soil is dry, about the first 1.5 inches. They are in 3 gallon smart pots. I saw daniels posted that he was using Jack's at 1/2 teaspoon per quart. That seems like a lot, but i think he does the make it rain thing with his. I can't do it that way. It's too inconvenient.

So my question is, I want to give them the best boost i can and get them ready for flower in about 12 days. I have the following things available to me. Superthrive, jack's classic acid special 17-6-6, balanced 20-20-20, and bloom booster 10-30-20. I also have medina hastogro fish emulsion with soil activator 6-12-6. Any recomendatons. Or do you need to see them, or am i on my own...lol sns View attachment 1499865

 

[riddleme]

the 1/2 teaspoon of 20-20-20 is great and you never really have to do anything else unless you wanna push em, I have gone as much as 2 teaspoons per gallon of Jacks without problems but if you push your gonna get a bit of burn, at the 1st sign of tip burn I back off. A friend of mine only does the 1/2 teaspoon thing and has awesome healthy plants, never has burn but his buds never get as big as mine and I have told him if you want em bigger ya gotta feed em, LOL he refuses cause he doesn't wanna burn em

 

[smoke n strum]

the 1/2 teaspoon of 20-20-20 is great and you never really have to do anything else unless you wanna push em, I have gone as much as 2 teaspoons per gallon of Jacks without problems but if you push your gonna get a bit of burn, at the 1st sign of tip burn I back off. A friend of mine only does the 1/2 teaspoon thing and has awesome healthy plants, never has burn but his buds never get as big as mine and I have told him if you want em bigger ya gotta feed em, LOL he refuses cause he doesn't wanna burn em

An observation I made is that the very very tip of the leaves there is a tiny bit of brown.Just a very tiny bit, The first time I fed them, I did 1/4 teaspoon per gallon, then the next time which was the last time, I did 1/2. sns

 

[smoke n strum]

should I do plain water this time? sns

 

[riddleme]

should I do plain water this time? sns

either or, up to you and how you wanna run your garden, I look for improved vigor, ie; increased water usage, going from every 4 days down to every 3, down to every 2, and growth spurts going up, 1/2 inch up to an inch etc to gauge how much I feed em

IMO watching plant response is so much more effective than meters and testing equipment

 

[smoke n strum]

either or, up to you and how you wanna run your garden, I look for improved vigor, ie; increased water usage, going from every 4 days down to every 3, down to every 2, and growth spurts going up, 1/2 inch up to an inch etc to gauge how much I feed em

IMO watching plant response is so much more effective than meters and testing equipment

I like that answer, I'm gonna one with plain water, one with 1/2 teaspoon per gallon and one with 3/4 teaspoon per and see what happens. Unless i change my mind. lol.. thanks for the help rm. sns

 

[medimaker]

Hey guys, plants are doing great since switching to schultz 20-30-20 all purpose. Yellowing has appeared to stop progressing up and all the healthy leaves are up at a nice angle smiling.

My girlfriend also thanks you since I'm no longer spending so much time mixing and ph'ing

The schultz mixes at 6.9 - 7.0 is that ok or should I drop it?
That would save so much time for more gardening and less mixing......epic!

 

[Dr Gruber]

Hey guys, plants are doing great since switching to schultz 20-30-20 all purpose. Yellowing has appeared to stop progressing up and all the healthy leaves are up at a nice angle smiling.

My girlfriend also thanks you since I'm no longer spending so much time mixing and ph'ing

The schultz mixes at 6.9 - 7.0 is that ok or should I drop it?
That would save so much time for more gardening and less mixing......epic!

in my opinion that PH is good, but wait until the more experienced grower respond.

 

[smoke n strum]

I added jack's 30-10-10 to my arsenal after re-reading this. I want more green! Thanks UB! sns

 

[Uncle Ben]

That 30-10-10 is a great Ace in the hole in times of (plant) needs!

Have fun

 

[Al Dente]

Thanks for the informative thread. I'm on my first grow, bag ladies, going on 4 weeks of 12/12. In Roots Organic dirt, no ferts during veg. I started adding 1 tsp 1-4-5 per gallon (Botanicare Pure Bloom) plus a tsp molasses. Started seeing the bottom leaves turn yellow and drop off, though I thought that was normal. Also some curling under on the taller plants. I've tried spraying water on the leaves of those plants but not sure that's a good idea because of the buds but it seems like the fastest way of getting moisture to those leaves. Anyway, after reading this thread I decided to give them more N so gave them plain water, then next water gave them 1/3 cup urine (home brewed) in about 1.5 gal of water plus molasses. Today there seems to be some improvement, less folding, more perkiness in general and no more bottom leaves yellowing. Urine again tomorrow, then maybe another Bloom feeding plus urine if there aren't any yellow leaves or folding. Does this sound like I'm on the right track? Comments much appreciated.

 

[smoke n strum]

piss on it. ur gross dude... i know it works but it still sucks and u want attention
fertilizer is cheap. go to the store.

 

[elfroggo]

Thanks Uncle Ben for all the great info in this post. I've been growing almost a year now, I remember reading this in the very beginning and it's basically what I was doing already so I continued and my plants turned out great! I really like the Jacks classic, which at the time I was only using because I had some around for other plants. BUT after my first harvest I decided to follow the hype and try to "maximize my yield", tried a bunch of boosters and such and there was nothing but problems, most of them outlined thoughout this post. I hated seeing my leaves die off, I've always found something wrong with that, I see it as the equivalent to letting my fingers die and fall off. I have since gone back to Jacks products and will stick with them. They work and they're reasonably priced. Green until chop is how I do it. Much bigger yields, the plants are sooooo much happier, and I don't feel like Im torturing my babies

 

[Uncle Ben]

I started adding 1 tsp 1-4-5 per gallon (Botanicare Pure Bloom) plus a tsp molasses. Started seeing the bottom leaves turn yellow and drop off, though I thought that was normal.

Go back to the first post.

......BUT after my first harvest I decided to follow the hype and try to "maximize my yield", tried a bunch of boosters and such and there was nothing but problems, most of them outlined thoughout this post. I hated seeing my leaves die off, I've always found something wrong with that, I see it as the equivalent to letting my fingers die and fall off. I have since gone back to Jacks products and will stick with them. They work and they're reasonably priced. Green until chop is how I do it. Much bigger yields, the plants are sooooo much happier, and I don't feel like Im torturing my babies

Yep, it's all a racket - the "boosters", charts, schedules, etc. It's foliage that drives production, not oil companies.

Good luck,
UB

 

[Al Dente]

Go back to the first post.

It appears you didn't read my post past the first couple of sentences, which were just background info about what I was doing/thinking before I read through this entire thread from the beginning. I am hoping for feedback about what I started doing after that point. To recap, I stopped the 1-4-5, flushed with plain water, then started feeding with urine (which according to the analysis I read has much more N than P). My plan is to continue with very dilute urine and molasses on all feedings (every other day at this point) flush when needed, and maybe toss in a tsp of 1-4-5 every 3rd feeding or so to make up for low phosphorus in the urine.

The only reason I am feeding at all is that there is some potbinding going on, and I don't have room to pot up from the 1 gal containers without putting some of my budding beauties out in the dark. Potting up would be my first choice but since there's no room, they need to be fed, no? Would it make sense to top dress with guano or something like that to give more timed release nutrients between feedings? Also, would it be helpful to pull them out, cut the circling roots and then replace them in the same containers, or would that cause more stress than it would be worth?

TIA for any helpful advice.

PS. This is my most stressed plant. It had lost 2 big fans and a couple of small ones from down low. Still some leaf cupping and a bit of yellowing on the lower leaves, but it looks better now after flushing and 2 urine feedings than it did before.

 

[Uncle Ben]

It appears you didn't read my post past the first couple of sentences, which were just background info about what I was doing/thinking before I read through this entire thread from the beginning. I am hoping for feedback about what I started doing after that point. To recap, I stopped the 1-4-5, flushed with plain water, then started feeding with urine (which according to the analysis I read has much more N than P). My plan is to continue with very dilute urine and molasses on all feedings (every other day at this point) flush when needed, and maybe toss in a tsp of 1-4-5 every 3rd feeding or so to make up for low phosphorus in the urine.

I'd stick to a conventional food, not urine. For starts, did you add nitrifying bacteria to the drench? What you're doing is not practical. Go with a balanced 1-1-1 if you're not sure.

Good luck,
UB

 

[Al Dente]

I'd stick to a conventional food, not urine. For starts, did you add nitrifying bacteria to the drench? What you're doing is not practical. Go with a balanced 1-1-1 if you're not sure.

Thanks for the response. Why does urine need additional bacteria but not conventional (commercial?) organic ferts? Are there major differences in the form of nitrogen? What do you think the chances are that Roots Organic potting soil doesn't have a good supply of these bacteria already? If it's deficient, would topdressing with household compost (ours has yard waste, vegetable peelings, chicken coop sweepings) supply them?

 

[TreeGear]

Does anyone use Jack's for Hydro? I see the 30-10-10 Jacks contains no Mg also. Isn't that an issue? I have previously run the Lucas formula from start to finish, 1-2 ratio of GH micro to bloom which gives a NPK ratio of 5-10-9. (fairly good results, slight yellowing on bottom leaves) Based on what I have learned from Ben, I am going to run 2 parts GH micro to 1 part bloom which gives me a 10-5-9 ratio, i'll run this through veg and till the end of stretch and then switch back to the Lucas (5-10-9) for weeks 4-9. I wouldn't mind trying Jacks bloom booster 1-3-2 just to give it a shot plus I think $35 for a 10 lb bag probably is a lot cheaper than $120 for 8 gallons of GH...just can't find anyone using it in hydro.
As for Bloom boosters, I have tried those and they always tend to make my plants look like they are dying, i do get some extra growth in flowers but it tends to be rooster tail type growths that ruin the flower appearance. Strain like OG, Diesel or 707 that have little vegetation to start with seem to get dry flowers from use too as the leaves that start dying are the ones on the flower sites. Anyway, have used them twice and don't like them, not even in smaller ratios. Healthy plants are the way to go. Biggest, lushest, greenest plants always have the best yields. Anyway whole has done a few cycles can tell you that. This will be the first cycle I keep N in a higher range throughout the stretch and I'm expecting great results. It seems like common sense not to pull the N away right before the plant doubles or triples in size. BTW... I talked to someone at Harborside Health in Oakland and they claim they won't even sell anything where bloom boosters were used cause it screws up the trichs.
The best feeding program is the simplest. Correct ph, correct ppm, correct NPK ratio for the cycle your plant is in. The only thing I have added to my GH concoction is H202 to add oxygen to the resevoir due to warm water temps being less able to hold oxygen. Not sure if this works but it keeps my resevoir really clean and algae at bay.