Atheist Evolution FAIL

KiefCatcher

KiefCatcher

Well-Known Member
God - a being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions."

Great thinker Epicures pondered the possibility of such a god to exist and came up with this:

"The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so, cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are both able and willing. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can, but will not, then they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?"

Do you follow?

If God is the creator of everything, He must have created evil, right? But you will say to me "God gives us free will." But does He? According to the Bible, God is omniscient. Does it not also in the Bible state that God gives us free will? How can this be when God is omniscient? If he knows every single thing that happens in the universe now and infinitely into the future - how do we have free will? Clearly we do not.

Also, take a moment to think about prayer. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

"Ask and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened..."

So what of the starving children in third world countries praying to God for food? What of the people of a nation caught in the midst of a war praying for safety and peace? How about the millions of lives destroyed by cancer?

If a group of Christians were to get together and pray sincerely and wholeheartedly for a cure for all cancers, should this prayer not be answered? According to Jesus, it will be done. That is a selfless prayer that will affect many lives in the most positive of ways. Not to mention, God would have then performed a miracle to which we all bore witness to - defeating any claims that God is not who He says He is.

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:

"For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you."

If this were true, couldn't Christians cure diseases? Fix the economy? End world hunger? Create world peace? Why not?

Lastly, going back to the definition of God, you see that He is defined as the "originator and ruler of the universe". According to religious logic, the universe can't exist unless it has a creator, no? A Christian will say "Nothing can exist unless it is created." But that statement is very much a contradiction leading us to wonder "Who created God?" A Christian will say "God is the one thing that doesn't need a creator. God is timeless and has always existed." But how can it be that everything must have a creator, while God must not?

Please, Christians and believers alike, argue your points intelligently. I look forward to a great discussion! :eyesmoke:

KC
 
Green Inferno

Green Inferno

Active Member
KiefCatcher said:
God - a being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions."

Great thinker Epicures pondered the possibility of such a god to exist and came up with this:

"The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so, cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are both able and willing. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can, but will not, than they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?"

Do you follow?

If God is the creator of everything, He must have created evil, right? But you will say to me "God gives us free will." But does He? According the Bible, God is omniscient. Does it not also in the Bible state that God gives us free will? How can this be when God is omniscient? If he knows every single thing that happens in the universe now and infinitely into the future - how do we have free will? Clearly we do not.

Also, take a moment to think about prayer. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

"Ask and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened..."

So what of the starving children in third world countries praying to God for food? What of the people of a nation caught in the midst of a war praying for safety and peace? How about the millions of lives destroyed by cancer?

If a group of Christians were to get together and pray sincerely and wholeheartedly for a cure for all cancers, should this prayer not be answered? According to Jesus, it will be done. That is a selfless prayer that will affect many lives in the most positive of ways. Not to mention, God would have then performed a miracle to which we all bore witness to - defeating any claims that God is not who He says He is.

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:

"For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you."

If this were true, couldn't Christians cure diseases? Fix the economy? End world hunger? Create world peace? Why not?

Lastly, going back to the definition of God, you see that He is defined as the "originator and ruler of the universe". According to religious logic, the universe can't exist unless it has a creator, no? A Christian will say "Nothing can exist unless it is created." But that statement is very much a contradiction leading us to wonder "Who created God?" A Christian will say "God is the one thing that doesn't need a creator. God is timeless and has always existed." But how can it be that everything must have a creator, while God must not?

Please, Christians and believers alike, argue your points intelligently. I look forward to a great discussion! :eyesmoke:

KC
Click to expand...
This would've been a much better thread if it was an intelligent discussion, or debate. But the name calling is uncalled for.

I am going to put it out there right now, I am an ''atheist'', if it had to be "labeled". I do not believe in a christian god. I
do not believe in the existence of "satan". I do not think Mohammad was no different than you or me. And Moses the same.
I don't think "agnostic" is appropriate term for me, because that is someone that believes the "christian god" may or may not
exist, if I'm not mistaken.

I do not deny the existence of a possible "higher power" beyond our comprehension. But at the same time, I am not "confirming"
such existence either. Because I do not know, and anyone who says they know for sure is just fooling themselves. No one knows
the "whys", and "hows" of life. It is a matter of "faith".

I do not like being labeled as a "bad person" because I do not believe in the christian god. The OP of this thread is out of line.
Basically calling out all atheists, and calling us idiots because we don't believe what he does, then hides behind the bible.

I am not a dumbass, I know right from wrong. If I saw a burning car with a christian inside of it, I'm going to do everything,
even risk my own life to save them. Same with a jew, muslim, black guy, mexican, a chinese guy, I'm gonna get you out of
there! Why? Because that's what I do. I am a good person. And I'm an atheist. (If I must be labeled).

If anyone wants to have an intelligent conversation, discussion or even debate, PM me. I don't call names, nor belittle people
based on their personal beliefs. Maybe I can learn something from you, and you may be able to learn something from me as well.
 
valjean

valjean

Well-Known Member
op's head exploded a few pages back due to logical counter points.

sorry boys i dont think you will be getting an answer.
 
C

chad851

Well-Known Member
green inferno, i like the way u think very similar to me, if everyone thought in a similar way the world would be a better place regardless of believing in anything
 
Windsblow

Windsblow

Well-Known Member
Green Inferno said:
This would've been a much better thread if it was an intelligent discussion, or debate. But the name calling is uncalled for.

I am going to put it out there right now, I am an ''atheist'', if it had to be "labeled". I do not believe in a christian god. I
do not believe in the existence of "satan". I do not think Mohammad was no different than you or me. And Moses the same.
I don't think "agnostic" is appropriate term for me, because that is someone that believes the "christian god" may or may not
exist, if I'm not mistaken.

I do not deny the existence of a possible "higher power" beyond our comprehension. But at the same time, I am not "confirming"
such existence either. Because I do not know, and anyone who says they know for sure is just fooling themselves. No one knows
the "whys", and "hows" of life. It is a matter of "faith".

I do not like being labeled as a "bad person" because I do not believe in the christian god. The OP of this thread is out of line.
Basically calling out all atheists, and calling us idiots because we don't believe what he does, then hides behind the bible.

I am not a dumbass, I know right from wrong. If I saw a burning car with a christian inside of it, I'm going to do everything,
even risk my own life to save them. Same with a jew, muslim, black guy, mexican, a chinese guy, I'm gonna get you out of
there! Why? Because that's what I do. I am a good person. And I'm an atheist. (If I must be labeled).

If anyone wants to have an intelligent conversation, discussion or even debate, PM me. I don't call names, nor belittle people
based on their personal beliefs. Maybe I can learn something from you, and you may be able to learn something from me as well.
Click to expand...
This is how people should behave when is comes to theology.

"I do not deny the existence of a possible "higher power" beyond our comprehension. But at the same time, I am not "confirming"
such existence either."



This is pretty much the definition of Agnosticism. The philosophic concepts of agnosticism don't question the Abrahamic God. It deals with the concept of God period. I only made this comment because you sounded unsure of the definition. Hope this doesn't sound like a I am a "know it all". Atheist, for the most part, hold a position of matter only. The metaphysical is a nonexistance construct of the mind which is nothing really more than matter behaving silly. There is only matter and nothing else. The idea of a possible higher power existing with proof is Agnostic.
 
cowboylogic

cowboylogic

Well-Known Member
The shear amount of contradiction between the Old Testiment and New Testiment is enough to prove God does not exist.
 
tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter how people think, just remove religion and it's a better world ;) christians are utterly and totally evil and there is and unglodly amount of factual proof to abck this up, unlike the unprovable bible stating they're all wovely

cowboylogic said:
The shear amount of contradiction between the Old Testiment and New Testiment is enough to prove God does not exist.
Click to expand...

Don't even get started with the ten commandments :lol: a commandment is not a suggestion, i don't quite follow how christians happily do as they please on sunday when their religion forbids it. Call muslims insane, but at least they've a set of balls and actually follow the rules of their religion, christians are a bunch of soppy cunts who can't stick to shit :)
 
KiefCatcher

KiefCatcher

Well-Known Member
Will no believers argue against my points? I'm disheartened to witness the lack of zeal within the believers of this thread.

:eyesmoke:
 
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