Science and Darwin, proof God exists.

Ceepea

Well-Known Member
I think it to be hilarious how non believers say that science has proofed that there is no God.

Talk about being lost in the darkness.

Here is the the truth, science and Darwin have proven over and over again that God does exist.

Charles Darwin once wrote about life arising from a "warm little pond". The scientific theory of the day was "spontaneous life". The idea that life can arise from non life.

Louis Pasteur, invited the pasteurization process, refused to buy into the theory. The Miller-Urey experiment tried to create life by mixing up a "primordial soup", heating it up and adding electricity. The experiments did not produce any life. Later the experiment was tweaked and oxygen was removed from the "soup", the experiment yielded some minor amino acids (building blocks of life), but still no life. By the way, all known life needs oxygen.

Sir Fredrick Hoyle, astronomer and mathematician, quoted on the Miller-Urey experiment, "The building blocks of proteins can therefore be produced by natural means. But this is far from proving that life could have evolved in this way. No one has shown that the correct arrangements of amino acids, like the orderings in enzymes, can be produced by this method...".

Darwin called bacteria, looking at it with a crude 1880's microscope, a simple cell filled with protoplasm.

Molecular biologist Jonathan Wells and mathematician William Dembski point out, " the simplest life forms we know, the prokaryotic cells (such as bacteria, which lack a nucleus), are themselves immensely complex. Moreover, they are every bit as high-tech as the eukaryotic cells—if eukaryotes are like state-of-the-art laptop computers, then prokaryotes are like state-of-the-art cell phones... There is no evidence whatsoever of earlier, more primitive life forms from which prokaryotes might have evolved".

So how complex is a living cell??

Inside the nucleus of each human cell are found thousands of carefully coded instructions (genes) that have to be translated, transported and reproduced. Information, scientists have realized, is not made of matter—it has no mass, length or width—but it can be conveyed by matter. Neither has it been shown that information can evolve or be improved through mutations.

Bill Gates, founder of the world's largest software company, stated that "DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created".

Physicist and chemist Jonathan Sarfati explains: "The amount of information that could be stored in a pinhead's volume of DNA is equivalent to a pile of paperback books 500 times as high as the distance from Earth to the moon, each with a different, yet specific content. Putting it another way, while we think that our new 40 gigabyte hard drives are advanced technology, a pinhead of DNA could hold 100 million times more information".

"What I think the DNA material has done," says Sir Antony Flew of Great Britain, formerly one of the world's leading atheists, "is that it has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce [life], that intelligence must have been involved in getting these extraordinarily diverse elements to work together.

"It's the enormous complexity of the number of elements and the enormous subtlety of the ways they work together. The meeting of these two parts at the right time by chance is simply minute. It is all a matter of the enormous complexity by which the results were achieved, which looked to me like the work of intelligence"

Darwin assumed the information inside the cell would prove to be simple, but he was flat wrong.

During Darwin's life, he was puzzled over the fossil records. He stated it this way: "The number of intermediate and transitional links, between all living and extinct species, must have been inconceivably great . But assuredly, if this theory [of evolution] be true, such have lived upon the earth"

Yet faced with the evidence, he admitted: "The distinctiveness of specific forms, and their not being blended together by innumerable transitional links, is a very obvious difficulty... Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely-graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection to my theory"

Catch that?? Darwin saying that his own theory is flawed with no evidence to support it.

As paleontologist and evolutionist David Raup readily admits: "Well, we are now about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species but the situation hasn't changed much .

"The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and, ironically, we have even fewerexamples of evolutionary transitions than we had in Darwin's time... So Darwin's problem has not been alleviated in the last 120 years and we still have a record which does show change but one that can hardly be looked upon as the most reasonable consequence of natural selection"

Catch that?? Science, is disproving Darwin with every fossil they dig up.

Darwin's theory of evolution has now been split into 2 theories. Macro- and Micro- evolution. Micro-evolution is why the common finch on the east coast looks different than the common finch on the west coast. Macro-evolution says they we as humans came from a fish. Macro-evolution has been disproved by science over and over.

Darwin's arch nemesis, Cambrian Explosion.

The Cambrian Explosion is the fossils of a huge variety of complex life-forms appearing suddenly, without predecessors, in the same low level of the fossil record. This obviously did not fit his evolutionary model of simple-to-complex life.

Regarding the Cambrian Explosion, Time magazine notes: "Creatures with teeth and tentacles and claws and jaws materialized with the suddenness of apparitions. In a burst of creativity like nothing before or since, nature appears to have sketched out the blueprints for virtually the whole of the animal kingdom. This explosion of biological diversity is described by scientists as biology's Big Bang".

Darwin wrote: "To the question why we do not find rich fossiliferous deposits belonging to these assumed earliest periods prior to the Cambrian system, I can give no satisfactory answer... The difficulty of assigning any good reason for the absence of vast piles of strata rich in fossils beneath the Cambrian is very great . . . The case at present must remaininexplicable; and may be truly urged as a valid argument against the views here entertained"

Now you did catch that right?? Darwin saying that his theory of Macro-evolution failed. There is no evolution, only evilution.

To all the science and math loving members here on RUI who like to say that science has disproved God, research the truth and you will find out that God still loves you.
So much bullshit, so little time.

Science has never proved there is no god, and has never claimed to. What science is doing is solving mysteries previously attributed to god. What this means is god is 'shrinking' in terms of things he is attributed to, and eventually god will only exist in the few scientific mysteries left.

Louis Pasteur's experiments prove nothing. How is it possible to honestly compare a process that happened over billions of years, with a laboratory experiment that may or may not be even remotely close to the conditions that life arose from? There is no way to honestly make any type of conclusion from an experiment like that.

DNA and genes aren't made of matter? Are you dense? Deoxyribonucleic acid is a molecule and has both weight and length. There is myriad evidence to support the hypothesis that mutation over generations leads to new species, and the driving factor for determining which mutation survive has been nature.

Your next few spiels have nothing to do with proving god exists.... random quotes from random people thrown together with no apparent context.

Religious folks LOVE to quote mine and leave out pertinent information when it disagrees with what they believe. Religious people make up their minds beforehand, then only look at the evidence that supports their beliefs.
 

Ceepea

Well-Known Member
Religious creationists are known for quote mining the work of Raup. Creationists usually quote mine Raup's paper titled Conflicts between Darwin and Paleontology (1979).[1] The quote the creationists take out of context is:

“”We now have a quarter of a million fossil species, but the situation hasn't changed much... We have even fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin's time.

What Raup really said in context was:

“”Well, we are now about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species but the situation hasn't changed much. The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and, ironically, we have even fewer examples of evolutionary transitions than we had in Darwin's time. By this I mean that some of the classic cases of darwinian change in the fossil record, such as the evolution of the horse in North America, have had to be discarded or modified as a result of more detailed information -- what appeared to be a nice simple progression when relatively few data were available now appear to be much more complex and much less gradualistic. So Darwin's problem has not been alleviated in the last 120 years and we still have a record which does show change but one that can hardly be looked upon as the most reasonable consequence of natural selection.[2]

The paper is a discussion about Darwin's mechanism of natural selection and whether this mechanism is reflected in pattern of the fossil record, not whether there is a lack of evidence for common descent. From the beginning of the article:

“”Part of our conventional wisdom about evolution is that the fossil record of past life is an important cornerstone of evolutionary theory. In some ways, this is true -- but the situation is much more complicated. I will explore here a few of the complex interrelationships between fossils and darwinian theory. . . Darwin's theory of natural selection has always been closely linked to evidence form fossils, and probably most people assume that fossils provide a very important part of the general argument that is made in favor of darwinian interpretations of the history of life. Unfortunately, this is not strictly true. We must distinguish between the fact of evolution -- defined as change in organisms over time -- and the explanation of this change. Darwin's contribution, through his theory of natural selection, was to suggest how the evolutionary change took place. The evidence we find in the geologic record is not nearly as compatible with darwinian natural selection as we would like it to be.

Raup later expanded on the ideas in his paper and published a book Extinction. Bad Genes or Bad Luck? (1991) which does not deny that some species go extinct by natural selection but has written that the majority of extinctions especially mass extinctions are caused by physical factors such as comets, climatic changes and catastrophes. Raup is not challenging natural selection as a cause of modification of species he just claimed that gradual change by natural selection is not the only mechanism of evolution as non-gradual extinction events also have a role. Creationists however usually misrepresent Raup to make out he is denying common descent or natural selection.


Anthony Flew's argument is nothing more than a 'god of the gaps' argument combined with an 'argument from incredulity'. If that's the best you've got, your shit is weak sauce.

Darwin had no idea what it took to make a fossil. We know the formation of fossils are very rare now. It requires very specific conditions, and more often than not, those conditions are not met.

Let's look at this quote;

Darwin wrote: "To the question why we do not find rich fossiliferous deposits belonging to these assumed earliest periods prior to the Cambrian system, I can give no satisfactory answer... The difficulty of assigning any good reason for the absence of vast piles of strata rich in fossils beneath the Cambrian is very great . . . The case at present must remain inexplicable; and may be truly urged as a valid argument against the views here entertained"

That is what SCIENTISTS DO. they accept when things are unexplainable. They do not inject unproven concepts into 'the unknown'. What YOU'RE doing, is using the 'god of the gaps' argument. Your entire argument boils down to this;

*randomly points to unknown piece of a theory*

"Ahhh ha! You don't know what happens here, THEREFORE god did it! It's the only explanation!"

Childish at best, sir. Childish at best.

Science has NEVER claimed to disprove god. It's just making god much, much, smaller in terms of his 'powers' and 'abilities'. God doesn't control the weather, or disease, he doesn't cause famine or drought, and he didn't magically create all life. There is ZERO need to invoke a creator, that's just what credulous, lazy people do.
 

Ceepea

Well-Known Member
P.S. Anaerobic organisms, like botulism, will die when exposed to oxygen. (Even though some of the atoms that make them up are, in fact, oxygen)
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
So much bullshit, so little time.

Science has never proved there is no god, and has never claimed to. What science is doing is solving mysteries previously attributed to god. What this means is god is 'shrinking' in terms of things he is attributed to, and eventually god will only exist in the few scientific mysteries left.

Louis Pasteur's experiments prove nothing. How is it possible to honestly compare a process that happened over billions of years, with a laboratory experiment that may or may not be even remotely close to the conditions that life arose from? There is no way to honestly make any type of conclusion from an experiment like that.

DNA and genes aren't made of matter? Are you dense? Deoxyribonucleic acid is a molecule and has both weight and length. There is myriad evidence to support the hypothesis that mutation over generations leads to new species, and the driving factor for determining which mutation survive has been nature.

Your next few spiels have nothing to do with proving god exists.... random quotes from random people thrown together with no apparent context.

Religious folks LOVE to quote mine and leave out pertinent information when it disagrees with what they believe. Religious people make up their minds beforehand, then only look at the evidence that supports their beliefs.
Religious creationists are known for quote mining the work of Raup. Creationists usually quote mine Raup's paper titled Conflicts between Darwin and Paleontology (1979).[1] The quote the creationists take out of context is:

“”We now have a quarter of a million fossil species, but the situation hasn't changed much... We have even fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin's time.

What Raup really said in context was:

“”Well, we are now about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species but the situation hasn't changed much. The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and, ironically, we have even fewer examples of evolutionary transitions than we had in Darwin's time. By this I mean that some of the classic cases of darwinian change in the fossil record, such as the evolution of the horse in North America, have had to be discarded or modified as a result of more detailed information -- what appeared to be a nice simple progression when relatively few data were available now appear to be much more complex and much less gradualistic. So Darwin's problem has not been alleviated in the last 120 years and we still have a record which does show change but one that can hardly be looked upon as the most reasonable consequence of natural selection.[2]

The paper is a discussion about Darwin's mechanism of natural selection and whether this mechanism is reflected in pattern of the fossil record, not whether there is a lack of evidence for common descent. From the beginning of the article:

“”Part of our conventional wisdom about evolution is that the fossil record of past life is an important cornerstone of evolutionary theory. In some ways, this is true -- but the situation is much more complicated. I will explore here a few of the complex interrelationships between fossils and darwinian theory. . . Darwin's theory of natural selection has always been closely linked to evidence form fossils, and probably most people assume that fossils provide a very important part of the general argument that is made in favor of darwinian interpretations of the history of life. Unfortunately, this is not strictly true. We must distinguish between the fact of evolution -- defined as change in organisms over time -- and the explanation of this change. Darwin's contribution, through his theory of natural selection, was to suggest how the evolutionary change took place. The evidence we find in the geologic record is not nearly as compatible with darwinian natural selection as we would like it to be.

Raup later expanded on the ideas in his paper and published a book Extinction. Bad Genes or Bad Luck? (1991) which does not deny that some species go extinct by natural selection but has written that the majority of extinctions especially mass extinctions are caused by physical factors such as comets, climatic changes and catastrophes. Raup is not challenging natural selection as a cause of modification of species he just claimed that gradual change by natural selection is not the only mechanism of evolution as non-gradual extinction events also have a role. Creationists however usually misrepresent Raup to make out he is denying common descent or natural selection.


Anthony Flew's argument is nothing more than a 'god of the gaps' argument combined with an 'argument from incredulity'. If that's the best you've got, your shit is weak sauce.

Darwin had no idea what it took to make a fossil. We know the formation of fossils are very rare now. It requires very specific conditions, and more often than not, those conditions are not met.

Let's look at this quote;

Darwin wrote: "To the question why we do not find rich fossiliferous deposits belonging to these assumed earliest periods prior to the Cambrian system, I can give no satisfactory answer... The difficulty of assigning any good reason for the absence of vast piles of strata rich in fossils beneath the Cambrian is very great . . . The case at present must remain inexplicable; and may be truly urged as a valid argument against the views here entertained"

That is what SCIENTISTS DO. they accept when things are unexplainable. They do not inject unproven concepts into 'the unknown'. What YOU'RE doing, is using the 'god of the gaps' argument. Your entire argument boils down to this;

*randomly points to unknown piece of a theory*

"Ahhh ha! You don't know what happens here, THEREFORE god did it! It's the only explanation!"

Childish at best, sir. Childish at best.

Science has NEVER claimed to disprove god. It's just making god much, much, smaller in terms of his 'powers' and 'abilities'. God doesn't control the weather, or disease, he doesn't cause famine or drought, and he didn't magically create all life. There is ZERO need to invoke a creator, that's just what credulous, lazy people do.
P.S. Anaerobic organisms, like botulism, will die when exposed to oxygen. (Even though some of the atoms that make them up are, in fact, oxygen)
Fucking rekt!

Excellent posts!
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
I think it to be hilarious how non believers say that science has proofed that there is no God.

Talk about being lost in the darkness.

Here is the the truth, science and Darwin have proven over and over again that God does exist.

Charles Darwin once wrote about life arising from a "warm little pond". The scientific theory of the day was "spontaneous life". The idea that life can arise from non life.

Louis Pasteur, invited the pasteurization process, refused to buy into the theory. The Miller-Urey experiment tried to create life by mixing up a "primordial soup", heating it up and adding electricity. The experiments did not produce any life. Later the experiment was tweaked and oxygen was removed from the "soup", the experiment yielded some minor amino acids (building blocks of life), but still no life. By the way, all known life needs oxygen.

Sir Fredrick Hoyle, astronomer and mathematician, quoted on the Miller-Urey experiment, "The building blocks of proteins can therefore be produced by natural means. But this is far from proving that life could have evolved in this way. No one has shown that the correct arrangements of amino acids, like the orderings in enzymes, can be produced by this method...".

Darwin called bacteria, looking at it with a crude 1880's microscope, a simple cell filled with protoplasm.

Molecular biologist Jonathan Wells and mathematician William Dembski point out, " the simplest life forms we know, the prokaryotic cells (such as bacteria, which lack a nucleus), are themselves immensely complex. Moreover, they are every bit as high-tech as the eukaryotic cells—if eukaryotes are like state-of-the-art laptop computers, then prokaryotes are like state-of-the-art cell phones... There is no evidence whatsoever of earlier, more primitive life forms from which prokaryotes might have evolved".

So how complex is a living cell??

Inside the nucleus of each human cell are found thousands of carefully coded instructions (genes) that have to be translated, transported and reproduced. Information, scientists have realized, is not made of matter—it has no mass, length or width—but it can be conveyed by matter. Neither has it been shown that information can evolve or be improved through mutations.

Bill Gates, founder of the world's largest software company, stated that "DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created".

Physicist and chemist Jonathan Sarfati explains: "The amount of information that could be stored in a pinhead's volume of DNA is equivalent to a pile of paperback books 500 times as high as the distance from Earth to the moon, each with a different, yet specific content. Putting it another way, while we think that our new 40 gigabyte hard drives are advanced technology, a pinhead of DNA could hold 100 million times more information".

"What I think the DNA material has done," says Sir Antony Flew of Great Britain, formerly one of the world's leading atheists, "is that it has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce [life], that intelligence must have been involved in getting these extraordinarily diverse elements to work together.

"It's the enormous complexity of the number of elements and the enormous subtlety of the ways they work together. The meeting of these two parts at the right time by chance is simply minute. It is all a matter of the enormous complexity by which the results were achieved, which looked to me like the work of intelligence"

Darwin assumed the information inside the cell would prove to be simple, but he was flat wrong.

During Darwin's life, he was puzzled over the fossil records. He stated it this way: "The number of intermediate and transitional links, between all living and extinct species, must have been inconceivably great . But assuredly, if this theory [of evolution] be true, such have lived upon the earth"

Yet faced with the evidence, he admitted: "The distinctiveness of specific forms, and their not being blended together by innumerable transitional links, is a very obvious difficulty... Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely-graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection to my theory"

Catch that?? Darwin saying that his own theory is flawed with no evidence to support it.

As paleontologist and evolutionist David Raup readily admits: "Well, we are now about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species but the situation hasn't changed much .

"The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and, ironically, we have even fewerexamples of evolutionary transitions than we had in Darwin's time... So Darwin's problem has not been alleviated in the last 120 years and we still have a record which does show change but one that can hardly be looked upon as the most reasonable consequence of natural selection"

Catch that?? Science, is disproving Darwin with every fossil they dig up.

Darwin's theory of evolution has now been split into 2 theories. Macro- and Micro- evolution. Micro-evolution is why the common finch on the east coast looks different than the common finch on the west coast. Macro-evolution says they we as humans came from a fish. Macro-evolution has been disproved by science over and over.

Darwin's arch nemesis, Cambrian Explosion.

The Cambrian Explosion is the fossils of a huge variety of complex life-forms appearing suddenly, without predecessors, in the same low level of the fossil record. This obviously did not fit his evolutionary model of simple-to-complex life.

Regarding the Cambrian Explosion, Time magazine notes: "Creatures with teeth and tentacles and claws and jaws materialized with the suddenness of apparitions. In a burst of creativity like nothing before or since, nature appears to have sketched out the blueprints for virtually the whole of the animal kingdom. This explosion of biological diversity is described by scientists as biology's Big Bang".

Darwin wrote: "To the question why we do not find rich fossiliferous deposits belonging to these assumed earliest periods prior to the Cambrian system, I can give no satisfactory answer... The difficulty of assigning any good reason for the absence of vast piles of strata rich in fossils beneath the Cambrian is very great . . . The case at present must remaininexplicable; and may be truly urged as a valid argument against the views here entertained"

Now you did catch that right?? Darwin saying that his theory of Macro-evolution failed. There is no evolution, only evilution.

To all the science and math loving members here on RUI who like to say that science has disproved God, research the truth and you will find out that God still loves you.
Oxygen is toxic to some forms of life.
 

Morbid Angel

Well-Known Member
Science can never prove something as vastly complex as the "god question" however, sometimes you dont need science. Sometimes you need to come out of your little dream land and realize that the God you know has never existed beyond his origin basis of the sun.

Keep your fucking christ shittiness to your self. Amen.
 

Mike Roach

Well-Known Member
Ancients Aliens created man then man created the Gods and the religious wars to prove who as the best God because of course the other guy's God isn't OK
 
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