The Never Ending Abuse of Phosphorous (Bloom foods) to Enhance Flowering
- Thread starter Uncle Ben
- Start date
By formulation do you mean a separate product? or just instructions for hydro use on the back of the containers? I've never actually seen the product, the hydro stores are only full of stuff I don't need. have you run it before in hydro? I've googled around and can't seem to find anyone who's tried it. Found a few guys who use urine but no jacks. lol
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Not all nitrogen is "just nitrogen" to begin with...you'd need nitrifying bacteria to break the nitrogen salts in your urine down to something which is usable to the root hairs in your soil. If you dont add nitrifying bacteria, the naturally occurring bacteria on (actually in to be honest) your roots wont be able to break down the ureic nitrogen salts fast enough, and you will have BIG salt buildups in your soil.
Plus man, do you smoke cigarettes? Eat foods with mad preservatives in them? Red Bull? All of these things metabolised by your liver can come out as some pretty fucking nasty shit in your urine, which your giving to your plant, which your eventually smoking. All this "shit" for the want of a better word is filtered out before it can reach "the rest of the body" by your liver for a reason...if you smoke it it goes directly to the bloodstream and bang into the blood brain barrier/other sensitive "systems"...Im full of hardcore brownies and rambling a bit, but you dont wanna use urine as a fertiliser in a world where for even $10 you can get a bottle of "tomato feed" or whatever generically named bullshit your local place sells, urine is full of toxic shit filtered out for a reason, hard for the plant to use and generally to grow a plant whose product is worth more than gold per ounce not really appropriate for practical/moral/health reasons.
That is unless you live a totally pure life, and your piss is totally free of contaminents? Cos I wouldnt trust my piss to drink/smoke, and I live a pretty healthy life!
EDIT: In a survival situation, who knows, I might trust it more then...but not when Im living it up smoking in my warm house, fresh water, store nearby and other such "luxuries".
A separate product. They have something like 60+ different formulations. Try google again, Jack's Classic, Jack's Pro, or J.R. Peters Company. NOT the Peters name, some other company acquired the name (Jack's used to be Peters), but it is an entirely different product.
I'll see if I can find the link.
www.jacksclassic.com
www.jacksprofessional.com
J.R. Peters, Inc.
Any of those will get you where you want to go.
Wet
What is wrong with trying to teach a little botany with his answer's. Why is it not OK to try and show a new grower that there is more to growing than marketing hype and fancy Nute names. I think the OP does an excellent job of letting the grower no "it is just a plant and not some alien thing sent here for us to worship."
Without the help of easy going and thought provoking individuals as UB and his friends I would have easily fallen into the trap. I was about to go purchase foxfarms soil and nutes and the hole bit without ever really knowing what was actually in the packaging or even what the plants needed. I was going to blindly buy and use thinking that the product makers new what they were doing. Now I have a little understanding of what n.p.k. actually is and will utilize this information for years to come....
Without the help of easy going and thought provoking individuals as UB and his friends I would have easily fallen into the trap. I was about to go purchase foxfarms soil and nutes and the hole bit without ever really knowing what was actually in the packaging or even what the plants needed. I was going to blindly buy and use thinking that the product makers new what they were doing. Now I have a little understanding of what n.p.k. actually is and will utilize this information for years to come....
Al Dente
Member
You mean the urea? Urea is a common primary source of nitrogen in commercial ferts. Is it different from urea in urine? Also if what you say is true I should have had deficiencies in my grow. But you be the judge. Take a look at my grow and tell me if the plants look deficient or locked out.
No. I dont use tobacco (except maybe 3-4 nice cigars a year) I drink a little wine and 1 cup of coffee in a day, eat all organic/paleo, almost no factory farmed meat or veggies, no junk food or junk beverages ever, no black market pot and no pharmaceuticals.
Ok, what makes you so sure the source of urea in commercial ferts is "pure". We!re talking factory farmed animal waste, sewage, industrial petrochemicals. No thanks. I know exactly what goes into my ferts.
If in hydro, go with another favorite, Dyna-Gro. It was developed for hydro. Although I'm in dirt, I use several Dyna-Gro products. I've used Jack's for well over 30 years, and Dyna-Gro for around 20.
UB mentions DG quite a bit along with Jacks. Both are widely used by commercial nurserys/greenhouses.
Wet
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
The Ureic nitrogen in commercially made ferts is completely different to the urea in your piss,it's one ingredient in many!I can't believe you don't understand the difference?! Just keep pissing on your plants man,enjoy smoking your piss weed. I'll buy sterilised, processed and filtered nutes for my plants.
By the way bullshit on what you said above,what do you actually eat?Do you not take medicine when your sick? Never been to a supermarket/grocery store?
thank you all!
Al Dente
Member
Urea is urea. Same chemical formula whether it's in Miracle Grow or pee. You might believe there's a difference but plants don't.
I get it, you need to have everything processed, plastic wrapped and sold by a major corporation or it's just too scary for you. Here's a friendly tip: try a little less TV.
How is that bullshit? I eat food, you know, meat, veggies, eggs, fish etc. In my area most supermarkets have organic dairy and produce, though I mostly shop at my local organic food co-op and get meat from a farm that raises free-range beef, pork and raw organic dairy. I raise my own chickens for eggs and feed them organic feed. I cook and am also part owner of a restaurant that sources its meat and veggies from local organic farms. Since my diet is good, I rarely get sick, and when I do there are lots of good organic herbal remedies (cannabis being one of them) that are at least as effective than the chemical crap big pharma sells and aren't toxic.
What do you eat?
So based on previous suggestions in this thread, i have been planning on keeping my veg nutes (2-1-1) in my resevoir till the stretch is over (3 weeks) before I switch to 1-3-2. While at my local hydro store today, I happened to mention this to the owner and he claims that since this will cause the plant to stretch more, I will have less flowering time and therefore end up with a smaller yield. I'm thinking my yield will be better, any opinions? I'm in a tray, 2 gal. pots with hydroton with a cocomat underneath if it makes any difference, not in soil (btw...epic combo I just tried out if anyone is looking for new medium setups...roots out of control...filled the pots AND tray in 25 days from tiny 2 inch clones...huge upgrade from rockwool slabs on a mat)
Milovan
Well-Known Member
Excellent question! : )
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
Remember that the plant tells the food what to do , the food (by itself) dont determine anything in a plants life. So if your plant is good size and ALL real pretty green then a shot of your 1-3-2 wont hurt at all and if the plant dont think its time to eat the extra P-K then it wont. Now if you keep on putting excess food in the medium then the ph will go crazy an eventually stop the uptake of foods.
The object is to get the plant as much food as it will eat. the plant will never eat more then it wants but it will leave the food behind an it will start altering the ph. you just gotta learn your plants. you can start by using the directions on the bottle but that is just a basic measurement. you will have to adjust per your plants needs.
The food can not force a plant to stretch and food can not stop it from stretching either. If you got plenty of light , ventilation , food , an well kept roots then the plant is gonna do whats its supposed to do.
"Stretching" an not stretching is due to the environment, all of it , not just the food.
Completely false , if any medium has too much N in it , then the plant simply wont eat it all, an then eventually the medium will become overloaded with N an it will cause many probs with the uptake of other foods. (ph probs, ect..)
soil
Budroller
Member
Noob here.... These girls are 2 weeks in flower for the tall girl and 3 weeks in for the little shrubby. Both are in three gal pots -yea, I know. I am growing organically and have been feeding MG Organic Choice 8-0-0 and Dr. Earth #6 4-8-4. I make the Dr. into a tea and feed foliar and soil drench. I use the MG as a soil drench. My schedule is MG-half strength, water, DR. Earth tea-half strength, water, Molasses-1Tper gallon for soil drench.
I have started to have a progression of yellowing fan leaves steadily moving up the stem. They get plenty of sun and attention...
I have been feeding this for 3-4 days, but yellowing continues. Even my top fan leaves are a lime yellow color. Feeling like my girl is heading down hill! Should I start to feed higher concentrations of these nutes, full strength or double?
I see that the MG is derived from fermented beet molasses...i thought molasses was potassium and not nitrogen. Any thoughts on this?
At any rate, any help or comments will be greatly appreciated!
I have started to have a progression of yellowing fan leaves steadily moving up the stem. They get plenty of sun and attention...
I have been feeding this for 3-4 days, but yellowing continues. Even my top fan leaves are a lime yellow color. Feeling like my girl is heading down hill! Should I start to feed higher concentrations of these nutes, full strength or double?
I see that the MG is derived from fermented beet molasses...i thought molasses was potassium and not nitrogen. Any thoughts on this?
At any rate, any help or comments will be greatly appreciated!
Attachments
dirtysnowball
Well-Known Member
dont take advice from the cashier thats trying to sell you these products imo. and i've been preaching this stuff to, NH3/urea/(nitrogen) from miracle grow is no different then N from piss. although piss is 50-0-0 and should be watered down in a 4:1 ratio(100oz h2O + 28oz piss) this will give you a good npk of 10-0-0 which can be used every other watering, but i recommend adding all the other nutes too. piss works in a pinch lol!
dirtysnowball
Well-Known Member
budroller, your plant is N defficient; its lime green, and the lower leaves are yellowing and dieing. only use molasses every 3rd watering, molasses is cal/mag and iron, cal/mag competes with N for binding spots on the roots. your nutes are ok to use at full strength in the soil since they are pretty light. anything with a npk around 10-10-10 should be used ever other watering(i consider this npk half strength because i compare npk ratios to full strength commercial nutes).
you should use dr.earth @full strength and combine it all in one gallon with 3/4 strength mg organic choice. this should make an npk of 10-8-4 if the npk values posted are correct. you should add more K, it regulates water(nute) intake(the most essential thing).
you should use dr.earth @full strength and combine it all in one gallon with 3/4 strength mg organic choice. this should make an npk of 10-8-4 if the npk values posted are correct. you should add more K, it regulates water(nute) intake(the most essential thing).
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
Stop using what you're using and switch to an indoors type "camelia/azalea" food. IOW a water soluble acidifying food, a 30-10-10 or 21-7-7 with chelated micros. No more than 1 tsp/gallon dissolved in rainwater if you got it. Walmart has it under their own brand. Don't expect immediate results, give it at least 3 days for the color on the newer leaves to turn back to a normal green. Older leaves are probably toast and may not recover. If they still have some chlorophyll left, they're probably still useful to the plant regarding photosynthesis.
And FWIW, "organics" are composed of inorganic minerals. A salt is a salt no matter how its used or derived.
Good luck,
UB
Budroller
Member
Thanks UB! I read this post front to back and have faith in your wisdom!
I have ordered the Jack's Duo and the Orchid special; I had been using what I had already for my veggies and flowers.
I don't know why I became so focused on the mj nutes...it's just a plant, right!? I have been using water from my rain barrel, so no prob. there.
I appreciate all and any input!!
I have ordered the Jack's Duo and the Orchid special; I had been using what I had already for my veggies and flowers.
I don't know why I became so focused on the mj nutes...it's just a plant, right!? I have been using water from my rain barrel, so no prob. there.
I appreciate all and any input!!