Building a HP Aeroponic Setup

[bLunteDDDD]

Props to Trichy and Cavadge

Please read this and check out the parts!

Im not building one of those stupid little rubbermaid, PVC manifold, and with low pressure sprayers. I wanna do the real thing with a real pump and all that fancy pressure stuff. Ive done a lot of reading and researching on aeroponics and all the other setups (fogger, sumps, etc.) simply don't provide the ~50micron droplet size that marywana lovessss. So you need all this high tech gear to get that little droplet?....*sigh*... yup you do.


This is the setup diagram I've been basing all my looking for parts off of and Cavadge made it, so credit him not me.

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/aeroponics/133136-project-forget-fogger-im-going-hp-13.html


These are the parts I've been looking at to purchase, and i want other peoples opinion on if it is good or if it will even work with what I'm trying to do lol. Another reason for this, is that not every part is explained exactly. For example i have no idea how to put this shit together and i didn't even know were about to get it... SO with that here are the parts

Pump
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-6488-shurflo-8005-912-260-demand-pump-14gpm-150psi-38-fpt-115vac-no-cord.aspx?affiliateid=10053&utm_source=nextag.com&utm_medium=Feed&utm_campaign=Products
-OR-
http://www.waterfiltersonline.com/detail.asp?product_id=aquatec-5800 (prolly this one)

Pressure Switch
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SQUARE-D-Pressure-Switch-2FH22?cm_sp=IO-_-IDP-_-RR_VTV70300505&cm_vc=IDPRRZ1

Accumulator (the 2 gallon... and is this ok to lay horizontal?)
http://www.accentshopping.com/product.asp?P_ID=150821

Filter
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-5873-filter-strainer-14-x-14-push-in-200-mesh-60-mic.aspx

Pressure Relief Valve
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/WATTS-Relief-Valve-1X624?Pid=search

Pressure Regulator will this work? it has 1/4'' threaded in and outs
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/WATTS-Pressure-Regulator-5AJ81?Pid=search

Soleniod will this one work?.. play around under "narrow by" if its not the right one
http://www.zorotools.com/g/00062230/k-G1401644?utm_source=google shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Google+Shopping+Feed

Misters the red or black? Cavadge used red... or do u know any better ones?
http://cloudtops.com/misting_systems_misting_nozzles/mistingnozzles.php

i also need to get 1/4" black hose (i think) and T connects and elbows and shit...




those of you who took the time to look at all this and the links and stuff, thanx

 

[Mike Young]

Cool to have yet another jumping aboard the HP train. First, I'd ask how many plants are you looking to grow, and how big you want em? Both your PRV & regulator are brass. I'd try to find them in stainless, or plastic. A check valve before the PRV would be ok, but I'm not sure about the reg. The sureflo pumps are loud. Myself & bob smith both can attest to that. After getting the aquatec, I'm probably gonna stick to that pump for this type of application. Everything else looks good. Depending on your water situation, you may wanna filter before the pump as well.

Welcome aboard.

 

[bLunteDDDD]

Well i was leaning with the bucket idea for a root chamber but after my reading imma do something along the lines of what trichy is doing so i might get one of thse huge 27 gallon totes from lows. So i was looking for about 8-10 plants? averaging 3-5ft? or that too big?

and could u help me out with the non brass or copper PRV and REG? everyone says theyre easy as hell to find... i just cant seem to find it

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Welcome bLunteDDD if I have one piece of advice I think is good- it's to read as much as you can on the subject for at least another month before you go and buy parts- honestly, it will save you the trouble of buying expensive and incorrect components. You really need a good understanding of how all these parts work before you go for it. Also very important is to understand the underlying principles of what really is important in HPA. Everyone tends to focus on the mist size as if it's the holy grail of hpa, but it's only a piece of the puzzle (I'm starting to sound like Atomizer). The most important thing I've come to understand is that it's all about control. The cycle timing, the wetness of the roots staying optimal, etc... You haven't listed a timer yet, but it's actually a very important detail... I started out knowing nothing as well, but have picked up alot of info pretty quick, it's not as complicated to understand as it initially seems, luckily . I'll add my 2 cents to your parts below- of course I am no master of the subject yet myself... As mike said, it's cool to have another person giving a shot at this- feels like an epidemic compared to the usual amount of people interested in the subject...

Props to Trichy and Cavadge Thanks- I'm just like you- trying to get a jump from other people's info...

Please read this and check out the parts!

Im not building one of those stupid little rubbermaid, PVC manifold, and with low pressure sprayers. I wanna do the real thing with a real pump and all that fancy pressure stuff. Ive done a lot of reading and researching on aeroponics and all the other setups (fogger, sumps, etc.) simply don't provide the ~50micron droplet size that marywana lovessss. So you need all this high tech gear to get that little droplet?....*sigh*... yup you do. As previously mentioned- it's not just the mist size, but also the control of it, important parameters to consider are you chamber size and shape, which will dictate the nozzles you need (flowrate, mist throw, and how much room there is for the mist to expand and disperse evenly). This in turn will dictate the minimum size of your accumulator, and then the pump can be chosen based on the volume of your accumulator and the pressures you decide to work with. As you can see, all of the parts are sort of interconnected, and a good understanding of what they do and how the work is really imporant for each individual situation.


This is the setup diagram I've been basing all my looking for parts off of and Cavadge made it, so credit him not me.

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/aeroponics/133136-project-forget-fogger-im-going-hp-13.html -yep- Cavadge set it all out for us... This is the basic outlay- of course it can be tailored for your situation, but what's important is the order in which the components are placed- especially the pressure release valve... He listed an update drawing a few pages forward that includes the prv- use that illustration instead...


These are the parts I've been looking at to purchase, and i want other peoples opinion on if it is good or if it will even work with what I'm trying to do lol. Another reason for this, is that not every part is explained exactly. For example i have no idea how to put this shit together and i didn't even know were about to get it... SO with that here are the parts -see first comment

Pump
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-6488-shurflo-8005-912-260-demand-pump-14gpm-150psi-38-fpt-115vac-no-cord.aspx?affiliateid=10053&utm_source=nextag.com&utm_medium=Feed&utm_campaign=Products
-OR-
http://www.waterfiltersonline.com/detail.asp?product_id=aquatec-5800 (prolly this one) This pump does look better- the other pumps out quite a high volume. It will all depend on your build- but say if you got a 5 gallon accumulator, only less than a gallon would be actual nutes and the rest filled with pressurized air- you could encounter a situation where the pump short cycles (comes on and off too quickly as it fills the tank too fast). Again, a better understanding will help you here... There may be even better pumps out there than either one of these depending on your situation, but we can revisit this topic later...

Pressure Switch
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SQUARE-D-Pressure-Switch-2FH22?cm_sp=IO-_-IDP-_-RR_VTV70300505&cm_vc=IDPRRZ1 This switch seems high quality, but both Cavadge and treefarmer had issues where it was so sensitive it would trigger when the solenoids opened and closed. I am going to test a 26$ dwyer model and I'll let you know if the cheaper product ends up working better...

Accumulator (the 2 gallon... and is this ok to lay horizontal?)
http://www.accentshopping.com/product.asp?P_ID=150821 This tank is ok- but the one I listed in my thread is rated to handle 150psi and is cheaper. This one is only rated for 100psi max, and it's nice to have a little more headroom to work with. You need to decide on a chamber size which will dictate mist nozzles, which will dictate the volume you need here, again, everything is all interconnected to some degree.

Filter
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-5873-filter-strainer-14-x-14-push-in-200-mesh-60-mic.aspx This may be ok, but I'm still not clear if finer filtration (smaller than 60 microns) will help keep the nozzles from clogging up better. Atomizer uses a 1 micron filter bag and just pours his nutes through it as he fills the res. These bags are only a few bucks and easily washable. Perhaps this would work in your situation too? The filter is a cheaper detail so I guess some experimentation won't cost much. The 60 microns seemed to be okay for Cav...

Pressure Relief Valve
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/WATTS-Relief-Valve-1X624?Pid=search As mike said- brass is not ideal, but we know this was working for Cav. I found a 12$ stainless one on ebay, but don't know if it will be as accurate to set. It might be fair to use this one with a check valve (one way) so that any nutes that touch it will not come back into the main flow.

Pressure Regulator will this work? it has 1/4'' threaded in and outs
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/WATTS-Pressure-Regulator-5AJ81?Pid=search Looks ok, but once again the brass issue. I have a link in my thread to an acetal one- take a look at the "watts p60".
Here's why the pressure regulator is a good idea. It will allow you to run higher psi before it- which can increase the time it takes between the pump cycles. Most importantly though- you can keep the pressure constant to the nozzles regardless of how full the accumulator is- which will give better control of the mist. For instance- at higher psi the nozzles will spray a finer mist, but at increased volume- so if your accumulator goes from 130 psi down to 110 before the pump recharges it again, your regulated pressure can be set to keep the nozzles at a constant 100 psi regardless... That way the nozzles will always spray the same amount, and it will yield more consistent results. You will be dialing in your mist timings by how wet the chamber is, and if that varies with the changing output pressures throughout the pump cyclings, it will make it tough.



Soleniod will this one work?.. play around under "narrow by" if its not the right one
http://www.zorotools.com/g/00062230/k-G1401644?utm_source=google%20shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Google%2BShopping%2BFeed This look like it might get you by, but there are also better options. It doens't list it's reaction timing that I could see (how fast it opens/closes). Also- it's 24v and your pump is 110v a/c- so it might be nice to keep everything on say 12v and you can use a battery for backup. That was my thinking anyway- but you could easily find a 24v power supply I suppose. I like everything being the same for simplicity sake and also like the idea of not mixing high voltage and water- plus you also can spend a few bucks on the various power supply transformers- which just adds up... Once you know chamber size you can decide on nozzles and calculate how many you need, then you can decide how much of the flow you want to split over how many solenoids. It is best to have short runs between the nozzles and solenoids (for mist control)- so I might be overdoing it, but I have allowed for a solenoid per nozzle. I may opt to put 2 nozzles per solenoid though after experimenting with it.

Misters the red or black? Cavadge used red... or do u know any better ones?
http://cloudtops.com/misting_systems_misting_nozzles/mistingnozzles.php In the end, it's a little more complex than it seems. You nozzles will be dependant on your chamber design. The microns are important, but also the flow rate and spray pattern will be a factor in chosing the right nozzle. I chose the agritech/ bioconrols nozzles (in my thread). Tree famer said they were pretty good- and he apparently tested alot of them. They were about 5$ a piece though...

i also need to get 1/4" black hose (i think) and T connects and elbows and shit... Yes, and this stuff enevitably adds up. I spent over 300$ (more than on the pump and accumulator combined) on all the john guest fittings, adaptors, and bulkheads. I did try to order a couple extras of each, but I wonder if I will rework how I put them together and might need a few more- who knows...

those of you who took the time to look at all this and the links and stuff, thanx

Also on brass and copper components- they are not ideal, but since the solution is not sitting in them for long I've been told they are not the end of the world-I'd try to avoid them if possible though. The problem is copper being toxic to the plants in higher amounts- brass only has a little copper in it though. What I always wondered is how come my tap water (copper piping throughout the house) doesn't seem to cause any issues(perhaps the nutes draw it out)... Probably the big no no is to run your nutes through long copper cooling coil or something to that degree.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Also- I don't want to deter you, but have you going in this with your eyes wide open. The end results are probably more dependant on grower's skill and experience more than the system you're using. I've gone this route because I like all the fancy stuff and don't mind screwing with it. If you're on a tighter budget, or think it's gonna cut your growing time in half while doubling the size and potency of your plants, probably not... Hpa is probably the most efficient way to grow in the right hands I'll assume though. This does get a little complicated in the design phase, and if you just want to grow some nice plants an aeroflow or even flood and drain table will do quite nicely as long as they're dialed in right. I'm a big fan of Homebrewer who keeps things simple with his flood/drain tables using only dynagrow and man- he has always got some stunning pics... Take a look at the chop photos he just put up in his "AN connoisseur vs dynagrow thread"... I won't lie that there are some days I just wish I'd gone that route- but I'm in too deep now- lol...

 

[bLunteDDDD]

Thank you for the info Trichy

First thing Ive learned while growing is: if you can control the perfect environment, you can have perfect plants
so i couldnt agree with yah more about the control part

I forgot to add the timer which i agree is the most important part!
You and many others have given the ATC 328D Time Delay Relay good reviews so Ill go with that. Its the timer on Trichy's first page
http://www.iseincstore.com/422_Timer.aspx?gclid=CNqN--m1pakCFQM6gwodVCMhuA

Honestly just from reading that post expanded on my understanding. And yes Im still doing some research and looking into tons of HPA systems looking into parts and such. I would like to add that ive got a few months of window time before i want this thing completed... and we'll see if that ever happens lol.

Fast update tho
I will prolly be going with the second pump unless i want higher pressure. And as for an accumulator tank i will prolly be getting one like yours since i dont think a 2gal is enough. And about that pressure switch, thats a badass pressure switch to be that sensitive lol but i prolly wont use it since there are a lot out there. With the filtration i dont really want to use the micron bag seeing as im a lazy stoner, hehe, so ill try the filter out. Im prolly going to end up using those agritech/bioconrols unless someone else can convince me otherwise lol. Finally as for the soleniod(s) and the PRV im still unsure on what ill be getting...

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Cool man, seems like you have your wits about you... I haven't heard of that exact pump model, but I know the 6800's and 8800's have been used and liked. I tried to see more detailed pump specs but couldn't find them in a casual google... I listed some cheap solenoids in my parts list, but have since then decided to go with some nicer ones that tree farmer recommended and Mike also went with- http://www.stcvalve.com/Process_Valves.htm (item 10 -2so25). Nice stainless pieces and replaceable electronic tops (I asked and the tops are only ten bucks to replace). These solenoids themselves cost around 35 bucks if my memory serves me correctly. Make sure you select the timer options that runs the voltage you need and the right timing increments- and don't forget the octal wiring base for 9 bucks...

 

[bLunteDDDD]

Thanks for the solenoid find
I will prolly end up going with the 8800 since i fond one at the same price as the 5800
But i got a few questions, do i need a bladder for the accumulator?
and would bronze work ok for a PRV? or does it also have toxins?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Cool, I think the 8800 may be more proven in this application... Well, you just need an accumulator that has a bladder- most all do nowadays- the link I gave - those are made with bladders installed- don't know if they're replaceable bladders or not, but not too worried for 60 bucks-lol... Bronze also contains some copper, but seriously- it should not be too big of a deal for a brass one, and JG check valves are only 6 bucks if you wanna really play it safe... Cavadge ran fine with a brass prv, and I believe Atomizer uses brass solenoids- he explained to me that the solution is not recirculated or in contact with the metals long enough to be a worry... If I had my choice between 2 components with nothing else different for the same price- then I would chose non-copper containing- but if it was a better product or deal, I would just go the brass route...

 

[bLunteDDDD]

Good point, im just going to get the brass one whatev...
but, like you Im going to try to get a soleniod per one or two misters... preferably one but we'll see about that money wise...
as for my root chamber, you think ill be able to manage those size plants in the 27gal tote?

 

[bLunteDDDD]

ohh, and is the 8800 pump as quite as the 6800? anyone know?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

ohh, and is the 8800 pump as quite as the 6800? anyone know?

I've read the 6800 is even quieter, but the 8800 has higher pressure ratings and flow rates- and it is pretty darn quiet too apparently... I would probably opt for the 8800 unless you really have to have a silent op. The greater pressures will allow you more headroom with supplying the nozzles with the higher pressures for the smaller mist size... Now this advice is all only from what I have read, and no real life experience- but I saw it confirmed enough times to trust it...

 

[bLunteDDDD]

yeah im going to be getting the 8800, and you think that 27 gal tote can support the life of 10 fully mature plants?
amd can that 10 gal accumulator tank be layed horizontal?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

yeah im going to be getting the 8800, and you think that 27 gal tote can support the life of 10 fully mature plants?
amd can that 10 gal accumulator tank be layed horizontal?

I don't know if it can be layed horizontal- better make an enquiry to the manufacturer to be sure, but I would think it could be. I seriously doubt a 27 gallon tote will support that many plants- of course "fully mature" depends on the veg time you give them. 5 gallon buckets are not really enough for a single plant's hp rootsystem (according to cavadge's results). You'd probably be better off having 2 plants per tote, and grab 5 totes if that's what you want to use. I suppose if you wanted to do more of a sog type setup, you could get away with less totes- but I'd figure 10 in 27 gallons is never going to cut it even if you went to 12/12 right after rooting. It is probably better to use a single, but larger container- the mist will be able to spread out and disperse more evenly. Recommend reading through some of the threads I mentioned- that's where my understanding of things comes from.

 

[bLunteDDDD]

i wanted to do a SOG but i think that im going to do 4 plants and just scrog instead, 2 of the 27 gal totes will be sufficient for 4 large scroged plants i believe

 

[Trichy Bastard]

That sounds plausible... I think you're on the right track now... It will be cool to watch how your project goes... I'm going outdoors, and the light is 12/12 here pretty much year round (I'm near the equator), so I'm expecting some sog-ish results... Any reason you need the tank on it's side? It comes with a metal ring base for a stand if you can use it...

 

[bLunteDDDD]

so if im understanding correctly you just veg indoor and throw them outside to bud? but i wanted it on its side because i thought it would just be easier to organize but well see when i get everything all setup.

I plan to do this setup in a 4.5' x 4.5' tent with a 1000w and same cooled hood as Cavadge, so i will i have to rig it so the res is outside the room. Its gunna be a tight squeez, but hey isnt that what this is all about?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

so if im understanding correctly you just veg indoor and throw them outside to bud? but i wanted it on its side because i thought it would just be easier to organize but well see when i get everything all setup.

I plan to do this setup in a 4.5' x 4.5' tent with a 1000w and same cooled hood as Cavadge, so i will i have to rig it so the res is outside the room. Its gunna be a tight squeez, but hey isnt that what this is all about?

Sounds good, those Galaxy's are supposed to be nice. The res outside will also keep it cooler, perhaps the accumulator could be outside the tent as well. Yeah I could do the inside/outside thing- but I'm going to try to just go to straight outside and see if the efficiency of HPA and power of the sun here will give me enough growth. I've also wondered if adding some extra P to my nutes will help them stretch a bit, but this is all experimental and I'll have to see how it goes... Perhaps an indoor veg for 2 weeks will be the way I ultimately do things- just have to try and see what works.

 

[Destroy The Autobots]

How do you charge the accumulator? Does the pump do it while filling it with the Nutrients?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

How do you charge the accumulator? Does the pump do it while filling it with the Nutrients?

Well, first you precharge it with air from an air compressor, to 2 psi less than the cut in pressure of your pump (what pressure it's set to come on at). This is just a one time thing when you initially set it up. Then the pressures from the pump fill it up with nutes under pressure each time the pump comes on. This is the driving force for the mist nozzles... The reason it works, is that water will not really compress, but air will. A large portion of your tank will be actually just pressurized air. So don't think your 10 gallon tank will hold much more nutes than a couple gallons, and the rest will be reserved for the air pressure. It's yet another reason a larger tank is desirable... Mine showed up today by the way, I'll post pics in my thread soon.